January transfer window 2020

[SkipDonoghue]

5 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Wrong.

PNE use Lancaster City and they are in the northern premier....I'd say they have had more youth breakthrough than us recently....its not about levels at this stage....he can play, but he cant play mens football twice a week for a full season,  that's what he needs.  Sorry mate, if you don't understand how football works it's not my fault .  

He needs guaranteed football and he would never get that in the football league, there's too much at stake.....Have you seen him, he's a little lad really.....a local non league team would be perfect for what he needs

I'm wrong? You're going on about PNE who don't even have an u23s team, and have a Cat3 academy so any youth player they send out on loan is coming from either their18s or is not getting any game time due to being to old for the 18s and not good enough for their 1st team, so a loan to a non league club is about the LEVEL they are at as football is about levels (but you seem to have more knowledge about that than me haha, yeah right) and their youth players are nowhere near the level of Rovers  

Yes I've seen a hell of a lot of Buckley, in fact the only people who may have seen more of him are his family, he may be slight but he is very technical, he is a clever footballer who knows how to carry the ball well and protect it, if Buckley was made available tommorow the clubs chasing him would be ridiculous trust me, I've been watching youth football at the highest level for the last 15 years (not just Rovers) I know a decent footballer when I see one and I also know what footballers need for development, and your idea is antiquated in fact it's going back to the 60s and 70s so sorry if you don't get football mate, that's not my problem

Buckley is so far above Conference level he would get kicked to fuck and that is not developing anyone what so ever

Rovers is a different animal, as I've stated and if you knew about academy football you would know that the U23s play against the top youth players in the country, ask yourself this, would Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Everton, Arsenal, Spurs, Leicester City ect ect ect send their youngsters to the conference North, would they balls, Man United u23s are a division below Rovers u23s, you won't see any of their lads anywhere near the conference North, the players they have out on loan are at Southend, Tromso (Norway) and Morecombe to name a few that's because it doesn't suit player development to place them in a club at a level we'll below the developing player, (see levels again) 1st and foremost it's about the football nothing else, simple as that, but you expect Rovers to send their youngsters down there, even the one that has shown he has something about him and is actually involved day in day out with the 1st team, I think you are the one that is Wrong massively, so if you have nothing more than send him to a conference North team to toughen him up or whatever don't bother responding to this as it will show me your LEVEL of knowledge, which at the min ain't much mate

[SkipDonoghue]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 I dont think he would get regular football at a top half League 1 side if I am honest. I definitely wouldnt send him to the Conference but he definitely needs game time, part of his education will involve toughening up and becoming more robust. Theres no use keeping him for the second half of the season as kids football isnt what he needs and we cant afford to carry him whilst he develops at this stage as hes not good enough to contribute at the same level as his team mates at the moment.

Totally agree, he needs regular mens football but you can't as you say just place lads anywhere, it needs to suit all parties and the lad needs to know he will play and that the team he's going to play a style of football that suits the player and his development, so to send him into non league football would be absolutely stupid if he ain't going to cope physically in L1/2 he won't cope lower down as the lower you go the higher the physical demands,

it is a quandary that the club will have seen before and will know where they want to if they do that is want to place him anywhere, they may feel he's best suited staying where he is at the minute, which wouldn't surprise me at all

 

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

Totally agree, he needs regular mens football but you can't as you say just place lads anywhere, it needs to suit all parties and the lad needs to know he will play and that the team he's going to play a style of football that suits the player and his development, so to send him into non league football would be absolutely stupid if he ain't going to cope physically in L1/2 he won't cope lower down as the lower you go the higher the physical demands,

it is a quandary that the club will have seen before and will know where they want to if they do that is want to place him anywhere, they may feel he's best suited staying where he is at the minute, which wouldn't surprise me at all

 

I would argue that the physical demands actually decrease the further down you go, the better the players towards the top of the pyramid, the faster the games are and the better athletes. It just becomes technically much worse, you get worse pitches etc so you might see more direct football at times but it is up to Buckley to show he can impact games in the lower leagues. 

But there is no point him playing in the Conference as even if he excelled there it wouldnt really do much to suggest he could come back and contribute.

The problem is where he is at the minute is on the bench, not playing regular football, and when he plays first team football at this stage he isnt up to it. We cant really afford to keep drip feeding him minutes for experience if it potentially jeopardises our chances, which for me it will as he is well below the standard elsewhere. As well as that, such limited game time could cause stagnation. The key has to be finding a team in League 1 or if necessary League 2 who obviously cant guarantee him regular football as no one can but where he is likely to get game time as much as possible. Our recent history of loaning out players isnt particularly good though.

[47er]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

https://twitter.com/BBCLancsSport/status/1207693829798866944?s=20

Can't believe that comment from TM. That's what worries me about him. He is discounting the possibility of Lenihan not getting injured when he has a known injury record.

He's recently come back from a fair lay-off and our record in defence at the time was dire.

In a nutshell, comments like that remind me why I have no faith in him long-term.

[Vinjay]

7 hours ago, The Axe said:

You'd have trouble if JA opted for litigation. Nuno Gomes signed after his agent (his brother) trawled him around Europe looking for a last big contract. Nuno Gomes recommended Fabio Nunes which brought his agent Marco Correia de Oliveira in contact with Shebby Singh. He convinced him that because of the low compensation calculations for young players in Europe it was financially advantageous to sign young Portuguese players, which was how the next three players arrived. The final one, Nuno Henrique, was Shebby's  attempt at free lancing where he was conned by Academica. Anderson was well off the Ewood scene by then, apart from pleading for a new contract for his son. 

Speaking of Singh...

 

[SkipDonoghue]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I would argue that the physical demands actually decrease the further down you go, the better the players towards the top of the pyramid, the faster the games are and the better athletes. It just becomes technically much worse, you get worse pitches etc so you might see more direct football at times but it is up to Buckley to show he can impact games in the lower leagues. 

But there is no point him playing in the Conference as even if he excelled there it wouldnt really do much to suggest he could come back and contribute.

The problem is where he is at the minute is on the bench, not playing regular football, and when he plays first team football at this stage he isnt up to it. We cant really afford to keep drip feeding him minutes for experience if it potentially jeopardises our chances, which for me it will as he is well below the standard elsewhere. As well as that, such limited game time could cause stagnation. The key has to be finding a team in League 1 or if necessary League 2 who obviously cant guarantee him regular football as no one can but where he is likely to get game time as much as possible. Our recent history of loaning out players isnt particularly good though.

I should have been clearer when I mean physicality I don't mean speed of the game etc I'm talking more likely to get kicked up and down by a player who is limited and can't match him with ability so is more likely to leave something on him and with his slight build he could be exposed to injury

The loaning of young players is a difficult situation granted, and as you say Rovers have had issues with it in the past, but the crop of young players in and around the 1st team are the best bunch Rovers have had for some time and I believe they're are not short of admirers from L1 and L2, it could be interesting for a few come January, but of course it all depends on the manager and his staff if anyone from this crop is to go,  I fully expect Magloire for example to go back to Rochdale, which means some one else will miss out on an opportunity

As far as game time goes Buckley will play tommorow against Newcastle u23s as I know he is in the squad and that Davenport and JRC arent

It could be the start of him getting a few games to keep him ticking over as he needs them without doubt

[bluebruce]

10 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

 

The loaning of young players is a difficult situation granted, and as you say Rovers have had issues with it in the past, but the crop of young players in and around the 1st team are the best bunch Rovers have had for some time and I believe they're are not short of admirers from L1 and L2, it could be interesting for a few come January, but of course it all depends on the manager and his staff if anyone from this crop is to go,  I fully expect Magloire for example to go back to Rochdale, which means some one else will miss out on an opportunity

Why does it mean someone else will miss an opportunity? Do you mean another centre half will miss out on going on loan? I was under the impression our only young centre halves of particular relevance at the moment were Magloire, Grayson (injured) and Wharton (already out on loan). Platt isn't going to make it, don't care if he gets an opportunity or not.

Not sure Magloire should go back to Rochdale, they didn't seem like they particularly planned to play him before the injury.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, SkipDonoghue said:

I'm

Rovers is a different animal, as I've stated and if you knew about academy football you would know that the U23s play against the top youth players in the country, ask yourself this, would Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Everton, Arsenal, Spurs, Leicester City ect ect ect send their youngsters to the conference North, would they balls, Man United u23s are a division below Rovers u23s, you won't see any of their lads anywhere near the conference North, the players they have out on loan are at Southend, Tromso (Norway) and Morecombe to name a few that's because it doesn't suit player development to place them in a club at a level we'll below the developing player, (see levels again) 1st and foremost it's about the football nothing else, simple as that, but you expect Rovers to send their youngsters down there, even the one that has shown he has something about him and is actually involved day in day out with the 1st team, I think you are the one that is Wrong massively, so if you have nothing more than send him to a conference North team to toughen him up or whatever don't bother responding to this as it will show me your LEVEL of knowledge, which at the min ain't much mate

Where are they all then mate? Where are all the players that are breaking the door down?  There isnt any and there hasn't been any for years.  The academy is shit and regionally everyone knows it.  No investment for years.  

Preston have a real pathway for their players and we should be looking to mirror that....I'd have Jack Armer or Jack Baxter before any of our lot

[Paul Mani]

8 hours ago, The Axe said:

You'd have trouble if JA opted for litigation. Nuno Gomes signed after his agent (his brother) trawled him around Europe looking for a last big contract. Nuno Gomes recommended Fabio Nunes which brought his agent Marco Correia de Oliveira in contact with Shebby Singh. He convinced him that because of the low compensation calculations for young players in Europe it was financially advantageous to sign young Portuguese players, which was how the next three players arrived. The final one, Nuno Henrique, was Shebby's  attempt at free lancing where he was conned by Academica. Anderson was well off the Ewood scene by then, apart from pleading for a new contract for his son. 

Who’s JA? ??‍♂️?

[Paul Mani]

4 hours ago, ossyian said:

Ah thanks for explaining that Paul. Take it JRC is still at the forefront of their minds still?

No pal, JRC got injured and has since struggled to get back into the same place. But you know that already surely? Being a Rovers fan. So based on that, prob best if you bore someone else ???

[Paul Mani]

Nyambe, Lenihan and Travis currently in the first XI pal....?

Raya sold for £3m and Nuttall £1m in the summer.

U23 coach brought into the first team fold after huge success to get Buckley, JRC, Butterworth and Magloire In over the next 12 months...With PLENTY backing them up.

Defo shit mate ??

Edited December 19, 2019 by Paul Mani

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Nyambe, Lenihan and Travis currently in the first XI pal....?

Raya sold for £3m and Nuttall £1m in the summer.

U23 coach brought into the first team fold after huge success to get Buckley, JRC, Butterworth and Magloire In over the next 12 months...With PLENTY backing them up.

Defo shit mate ??

Not one of them came through our academy, you are missing my point.  Nyambe was developed elsewhere,  Travis at Liverpool and Lenihan in Ireland....all 17 whe  they joined us ...

Let me tell you something, all the schools local talent is going to preston or Burnley,  not to us...fact.  we need to get them at 9 , 10, 11 ,.....the academy isnt as good as you think it is.....

 

So, how many first team players have we developed?

Edited December 19, 2019 by Sparks Rover

[bluebruce]

24 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Where are they all then mate? Where are all the players that are breaking the door down?  There isnt any and there hasn't been any for years.  The academy is shit and regionally everyone knows it.  No investment for years.  

Preston have a real pathway for their players and we should be looking to mirror that....I'd have Jack Armer or Jack Baxter before any of our lot

Have I misunderstood this post or have you taken leave of your senses? We have a category A academy (which literally requires expenditure to do), finished what, 5th or 6th in the top flight of u-23 football last season, won the 'regional' Lancashire Senior Trophy or whatever it's called these days, and in recent years have produced Nyambe, Travis, Raya and Lenihan for the first team. We currently have a few youngsters rated as being on the verge of breaking through.

If what you mean is solely the pathway, there is room for improvement there sure, but we are still getting players into the first team despite that.

I feel like you must have been talking about another club and I've got the wrong end of the stick, because our academy is demonstrably, empirically, not crap, has had players breaking through in the last few years and doesn't lack investment.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, bluebruce said:

Have I misunderstood this post or have you taken leave of your senses? We have a category A academy (which literally requires expenditure to do), finished what, 5th or 6th in the top flight of u-23 football last season, won the 'regional' Lancashire Senior Trophy or whatever it's called these days, and in recent years have produced Nyambe, Travis, Raya and Lenihan for the first team. We currently have a few youngsters rated as being on the verge of breaking through.

If what you mean is solely the pathway, there is room for improvement there sure, but we are still getting players into the first team despite that.

I feel like you must have been talking about another club and I've got the wrong end of the stick, because our academy is demonstrably, empirically, not crap, has had players breaking through in the last few years and doesn't lack investment.

Yes you have misunderstood.  None came through the academy ...all signed as scholars 

[bluebruce]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Not one of them came through our academy, you are missing my point.  Nyambe was developed elsewhere,  Travis at Liverpool and Lenihan in Ireland....all 17 whe  they joined us ...

Let me tell you something, all the schools local talent is going to preston or Burnley,  not to us...fact.  we need to get them at 9 , 10, 11 ,.....the academy isnt as good as you think it is.....

I think somebody being with us from being 17 is entirely warranted in being described as one of our youth products. Then there's the ones who have moved on, O'Connell and Mahoney. I guess you wont count Mahoney because he came to us when he was 16? You don't have to raise them from infancy. Players move between academies all the time. I'm sure there are a few knocking about elsewhere who spent some years at our academy.

[bluebruce]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Yes you have misunderstood.  None came through the academy ...all signed as scholars 

So I haven't misunderstood but you're splitting hairs, got it. My above post answers that but if you want to ignore that and be overly technical about it, fair enough, I won't argue.

I'm very comfortable with how our academy is performing. And less comfortable with the transition route to first team and our poor use of loans.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, bluebruce said:

I think somebody being with us from being 17 is entirely warranted in being described as one of our youth products.

Don't agree, sorry

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, bluebruce said:

So I haven't misunderstood but you're splitting hairs, got it. My above post answers that but if you want to ignore that and be overly technical about it, fair enough, I won't argue.

I'm very comfortable with how our academy is performing. And less comfortable with the transition route to first team and our poor use of loans.

Ok we shall have to disagree because I think its pointless 

[SkipDonoghue]

59 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Where are they all then mate? Where are all the players that are breaking the door down?  There isnt any and there hasn't been any for years.  The academy is shit and regionally everyone knows it.  No investment for years.  

Preston have a real pathway for their players and we should be looking to mirror that....I'd have Jack Armer or Jack Baxter before any of our lot

Well bully for you mate and good luck to the Preston lads mentioned, but I'm not here to argue if Rovers academy is shit or not I'm talking about developing players Rovers players I couldn't really give a shit about Preston to be honest and you have shown you haven't a clue when it comes to Rovers academy players with you spouting they are all shit, it sounds to me like someone nay have an axe to grind, did you or a family member get binned from Rovers academy or something as you seem to have a real downer on it 

And the players are there if you don't know about them go and watch the 23s for a few weeks you may get to know if these lads are shit or not as I can't see what your basing this part of your comment on (probably nothing) 

Also no investment, you really are clueless with this comment it cost in the region of £3mill a year to have a Cat 1 academy and to sustain that during the difficult last few years, with City, United, Everton and Liverpool on the doorstep and compete with them is a pretty top achievement for me

I won't be responding to you after this as you really havent got a clue and you've never watched the 23s over the last few years I can tell and so for me most of your points are mute

[SkipDonoghue]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Why does it mean someone else will miss an opportunity? Do you mean another centre half will miss out on going on loan? I was under the impression our only young centre halves of particular relevance at the moment were Magloire, Grayson (injured) and Wharton (already out on loan). Platt isn't going to make it, don't care if he gets an opportunity or not.

Not sure Magloire should go back to Rochdale, they didn't seem like they particularly planned to play him before the injury.

There are more than the lads you've mention mate 

Charlie Doyle for example has been injured recently but isn't far off being fit, he will be a candidate for a loan, but if Magloire goes back to Rochdale which is possible due to the loan being for the season, it could well scupper a loan for Doyle who will be expected to play for the 23s but who will be looking for a loan as it doesn't look like there is much going for him at Rovers apart from u23s football

[SkipDonoghue]

50 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yes you have misunderstood.  None came through the academy ...all signed as scholars 

And you're totally missing the point.... Without that Cat1 status none of the scholars that are singed from the bigger clubs would have gone to Rovers, they would have taken their chances at Burnley who until recently were a Cat3 academy playing games against Carlisle. Chester. Wrexham, etc etc so yeah Cat1 is worth it even if you haven't brought a player through from u9

Which by the way not many clubs do, there are a few but most clubs bring in their best or future top players via other academies by poaching the lower cat academies better players because the can do that, why? Because they are cat 1 academy

 Not bad reasons to have a Cat1 academy I think

Edited December 20, 2019 by SkipDonoghue

[bluebruce]

20 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

There are more than the lads you've mention mate 

Charlie Doyle for example has been injured recently but isn't far off being fit, he will be a candidate for a loan, but if Magloire goes back to Rochdale which is possible due to the loan being for the season, it could well scupper a loan for Doyle who will be expected to play for the 23s but who will be looking for a loan as it doesn't look like there is much going for him at Rovers apart from u23s football

I mean I know we HAVE other young centre halves...I'm only really thinking about the ones who might make it for us though. Isn't Doyle 21 now? Which means he has to be wayyyy down the pecking order. I mean, I don't wish a bad career on anyone who isn't a massive prick, but I'm also a lot more bothered about developing ones who can help us. If Magloire going on loan means Doyle doesn't, fine. Someone has to defend for the u-23s. But yeh I guess he won't be going on loan. Rather he didn't and Magloire did though.

[Paul Mani]

8 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Not one of them came through our academy, you are missing my point.  Nyambe was developed elsewhere,  Travis at Liverpool and Lenihan in Ireland....all 17 whe  they joined us ...

Let me tell you something, all the schools local talent is going to preston or Burnley,  not to us...fact.  we need to get them at 9 , 10, 11 ,.....the academy isnt as good as you think it is.....

 

So, how many first team players have we developed?

You’re completely missing the whole point mate. The POINT of this whole process is to fire out first team players from our academy. 

You claiming that we aren’t picking them up at 8 or 9 is at best a guess and at worst semantics.

BUT either way, you can’t say that a club who’ve churned those I mentioned out in the last 3 seasons have a shit academy system. Two of our key players came out of our academy - Travis and Lenihan.

Stop worrying about 8 and 9 year olds. If any of those kids rip it up at Burnley or North End we’ll just take our pick later on.

Focus on the actual goal mate. Keep it simple.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Paul Mani

[philipl]

On 19/12/2019 at 09:01, The Axe said:

If they were interested in a Tondela player it was probably the goalkeeper Claudio Ramos. He's one of the best in Portugal and out of contract in June. However he's very similar to Raya which would tend to discount this.

I would take Raya back without a second thought.

[The Axe]

9 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Who’s JA? ??‍♂️?

Interesting that your response is an attempt at legal pedantry rather than any attempt to justify the veracity of your original statement.