January transfer window 2020

[bluebruce]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I dont think hes necessarily getting the best out of the squad but especially without Dack, to get in the top 6 would be a massive, massive overachievement from anyone. No manager could get very many goals out of a expensively assembled and ultimately poor set of attacking players. No area of our team is top 6 quality.

Over the Christmas period, albeit not to the level Mowbray has tried to, rotation was always going to be needed. The problem is that our squad is littered with crap players. None of our goalkeepers are up to it. Both senior keepers were signed by Mowbray. Defensively, our only back 4 of any promise includes a winger in his mid 30s who we also need in midfield. Defences should be less prone to rotation but our competition is particularly dire. Bell, Bennett, Gallagher and Brereton are stealing a living. Many of the others are at best patchy and ok, and at worst totally ineffective.

I am not trying to absolve Mowbray of blame or suggest that his job should be anything other than under strong consideration. I just thing his main fault is not necessarily at massively underachieving with a set of players that another manager could do far better with, as I do not think that is the case. It is because with plenty of money and time the squad is well off where it should be and the blame lands at Mowbrays door.

And yet, my point is that despite all that, and Mowbray's selections being frequently awful, we are pretty close to the playoffs. All managers confuse with their decisions to some degree, but I can't envision a scenario where a decent manager who can play people in their actual positions, based on form, without rotating them for the fuck of it, wouldn't have us at least 6 points better off. Regardless of what this team looks like on paper.

This league isn't that high a standard. Consistency is everything, and that's exactly what TM robs us of.

[Scotland1]

Two unknown teams from the championship have submitted loanoffer for West Ham’s Nathan Holland. Apparently he’s a star in the u23s and plays left wing. Wonder if rovers have looked?

[DE.]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

There is a myth that we are terrible at defending and competent in attack. Only 10 teams have scored less than us, and Dack has 9 of our 34 goals. Take them away and only Wigan have less. There is no evidence that any of those players can come close to matching the tangible goal contributions that Dack brings to this team. 

I always found the criticism of Dack and willingness to see him sold baffling, and I think it's going to become really obvious over the next few months how critical he is to us. 

[simongarnerisgod]

Just now, Scotland1 said:

Two unknown teams from the championship have submitted loanoffer for West Ham’s Nathan Holland. Apparently he’s a star in the u23s and plays left wing. Wonder if rovers have looked?

yes,tony think he`ll make a decent right back?

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Scotland1 said:

Two unknown teams from the championship have submitted loanoffer for West Ham’s Nathan Holland. Apparently he’s a star in the u23s and plays left wing. Wonder if rovers have looked?

Ya,probably. We need a new goalkeeper/CB/any position except where he actually plays 

[47er]

8 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

OK Thanks. We don't know how much this actually cost the club or if it was covered by insurance..

Yes, once again everything is OK!  

[47er]

2 hours ago, Rogerb said:

They were only talking at 2million last time!

Chicken feed for us!   

 

2 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Not on a wind- up, but is Lenihan really that good and how reliable is his fitness?

No, he's not that good but everything is relative and, right now, his loss would be a disaster. We really are in a mess. 3 years of TM, all that money spent and we are farther away from the Holy Grail than ever. 

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, Scotland1 said:

Two unknown teams from the championship have submitted loanoffer for West Ham’s Nathan Holland. Apparently he’s a star in the u23s and plays left wing. Wonder if rovers have looked?

Unlike most of the teams in the Championship (all of them actually, except Derby), our u-23s play against them. So you would think so, if he's good enough.

Correction - sorry, thought they played the same level as ours but they got relegated last season.

Edited January 3, 2020 by bluebruce

[47er]

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I am not trying to absolve Mowbray of blame or suggest that his job should be anything other than under strong consideration. I just thing his main fault is not necessarily at massively underachieving with a set of players that another manager could do far better with, as I do not think that is the case. It is because with plenty of money and time the squad is well off where it should be and the blame lands at Mowbrays door.

Playing players in their positions would make a big difference surely?

[tomphil]

Just now, 47er said:

Playing players in their positions would make a big difference surely?

It usually has when he's tried it all across the park, penny won't drop though because he doesn't want it to.

[roversfan99]

32 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya,probably. We need a new goalkeeper/CB/any position except where he actually plays 

The stats show that it is a goalscorer that we need more than anywhere else. 8 clean sheets in 26 but take Dack out of the equation, which he is, and only one other player has more goals than Derrick Williams.

[Blue blood]

39 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

And yet, my point is that despite all that, and Mowbray's selections being frequently awful, we are pretty close to the playoffs. All managers confuse with their decisions to some degree, but I can't envision a scenario where a decent manager who can play people in their actual positions, based on form, without rotating them for the fuck of it, wouldn't have us at least 6 points better off. Regardless of what this team looks like on paper.

This league isn't that high a standard. Consistency is everything, and that's exactly what TM robs us of.

Agree. The last good run shows that. We aren't that good a team but they are more than competitive enough given the dross in this division. Our wins over Brentford, Bristol and Stoke showed that we are capable of competing. We would be doing better with a manager not making basic errors such as over rotation and players in correct positions. Heck TM showed us that was the case with that run. 

That said the squad is awful as there's some dross in there and our best 11 is scarily reliant on players who don't have much stamina to play the majority of games. Downing and Graham are getting on, whilst Evans and Lenihen are injury prone, so that's a third of the team that would need resting/would be injured a fair amount of games. Given the quality of the replacements I think we'd still struggle a bit because the squad is so weak. Hence, major changes need to be made in January. 

 And thats before we even think about what we have to do in the summer. Do Downing and Graham have another year in them. We need a new keeper and 2 first choice defenders before we even consider bulking up the defensive numbers. Does Johnson have another season in him - or this one for that matter. We have a ton of work to do in the summer so this January might be a now or never time to build on a solid first 11. 

 

[alcd]

39 minutes ago, Scotland1 said:

Two unknown teams from the championship have submitted loanoffer for West Ham’s Nathan Holland. Apparently he’s a star in the u23s and plays left wing. Wonder if rovers have looked?

Mowbray doesnt like wingers even though its the only way to get any goals from our "G" force. Instead he plays intricate tippy tappy players like Rothwell who runs like a headless chicken and loses the ball to set up an opposition counterattack.

[Scotland1]

2 minutes ago, alcd said:

Mowbray doesnt like wingers even though its the only way to get any goals from our "G" force. Instead he plays intricate tippy tappy players like Rothwell who runs like a headless chicken and loses the ball to set up an opposition counterattack.

Some interesting comments on here from WHU fans on the lad: sounds like someone we could do with to lighten the place up similar to chapman in league one and the effect then.

https://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=174942&start=60

[bluebruce]

Just now, Scotland1 said:

Some interesting comments on here from WHU fans on the lad: sounds like someone we could do with to lighten the place up similar to chapman in league one and the effect then.

https://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=174942&start=60

Imagine if we had a Chapman.....................................

[Wegerleswiggle]

1 hour ago, Scotland1 said:

Some interesting comments on here from WHU fans on the lad: sounds like someone we could do with to lighten the place up similar to chapman in league one and the effect then.

https://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=174942&start=60

Seems to be quite a player. Now him and Chapman on the wings would get the fans excited, however I would imagine they'll fall behind Rothwell, Armstrong, Bennett, Downing, Gallagher, Brereton, Buckley and Bell. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Wegerleswiggle

[bluebruce]

34 minutes ago, Wegerleswiggle said:

Seems to be quite a player. Now him and Chapman on the wings would get the fans excited, however I would imagine they'll fall behind Rothwell, Armstrong, Bennett, Downing, Gallagher, Brereton, Buckley and Bell. 

Even at u-23 level, those are ridiculous stats from the wing.

[K-Hod]

5 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Even at u-23 level, those are ridiculous stats from the wing.

He’ll just have to prove himself in the u23’s for 9 months here first....

[Guest]

I am completely against signing Under 23's players from other clubs for our first team set-up, there's genuinely no point in running a Category One Academy, at circa £3-4m per season to just bring in other people's talent ON LOAN for a year. Players like Tosin who have first team experience, it's much more appropriate, but to bring in West Ham's good looking young winger, rather than just giving Joe Rankin-Costello some bloody game time - is genuinely baffling.

[Wegerleswiggle]

26 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I am completely against signing Under 23's players from other clubs for our first team set-up, there's genuinely no point in running a Category One Academy, at circa £3-4m per season to just bring in other people's talent ON LOAN for a year. Players like Tosin who have first team experience, it's much more appropriate, but to bring in West Ham's good looking young winger, rather than just giving Joe Rankin-Costello some bloody game time - is genuinely baffling.

Not if he's better than JRC.

[USABlue]

11 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Would you not agree he is managing the squad awfully? You dont think we would be at least 6 points better off this season with a good manager instead?

6?  You are being generous to Tony, double that, 6 over Xmas alone then add Charlton, Luton for sure.

[Guest]

Just now, Wegerleswiggle said:

Not if he's better than JRC.

How much better? JRC is a good player. Bringing in someone else's youth on loan, when we haven't given our own a go, and spent £4m on the academy, is pathetic from the club. Would be fuming if we went for this.

[JBiz]

I’m not sure many squads / teams / managers could’ve lost the key players with the timing we had and continue to pick up the same level of points in 4 games over 9 days.

Of course, if our squad had been built better with the outlay (particularly on two strikers), we’d be better equipped to deal with this but I’ve never seen this as an exact science - for example we currently have our first choice full backs, and first choice number 10 injured; I don’t think many teams in this league would be able to respond without putting someone out of position, or suffering an inability to create chances with their talisman out.

Danny Graham hadn’t hardly touched the ball at all, in the games he’s played - but still scored his chance versus Huddersfield. This to me says the priority is finding someone to temporarily replace Dack, and give the likes of Rothwell and Armstrong a kick up the arse, or our problem for the remainder will be creating and scoring goals.

You never know - some better delivery and quality in the final third might give our expensive strikers some opportunities to score some goals.

[tomphil]

What delivery are they going to get on the end of when one is 5 ft nothing, the other is on the right and the other 2 on the bench ?

I love this line of excuses and what 'might' happen from the usual gang who live in Tony's pockets.  What makes you think we are suddenly going to see things we've rarely seen with this manager and set of players ?   And even if so what makes you think it'll last for more than a few games before a certain type is reverted to ?

He doesn't play that way he doesn't want to and the players he's recruited are in the main not suited to his methods.

It's a New Year but don't expect anything new at all.

[SkipDonoghue]

28 minutes ago, JoeH said:

How much better? JRC is a good player. Bringing in someone else's youth on loan, when we haven't given our own a go, and spent £4m on the academy, is pathetic from the club. Would be fuming if we went for this.

You are right, there is no point signing other clubs 23s especially when the 23s mentioned play in the division below ours

Mowbray rates JRC highly, but he hasn't given him an opportunity yet, I know he has a small injury at the minute which has kept him sidelined over Christmas which has been unfortunate as he may well have got an opportunity with injuries to other players

I have also heard that Middlesbrough are keen on taking JRC, they have asked about his availability in this window and if it was to happen it would be a permanent transfer, he is also wanted on loan by a host of L1 and L2 clubs, it will be interesting to see what happens when he's back to fitness, hopefully Mowbray gives him his chance