January transfer window 2020

[Tom Stinny]

The Dack money is already gambled on the two forwards we've bought. We aren't getting 10 million plus for Dack and spending it at the same time.

[Amo]

10 minutes ago, Wegerleswiggle said:

If we kicked off next season lining up like this I would be very hopeful. I am gonna hazard a guess that unless we get promoted (highly unlikely) then Dack will be off.

The signings needed wouldn't cost a fortune and the Dack money would probably cover most of it.

>No Bennett

>Rothwell and Chapman 

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Wegerleswiggle said:

If we kicked off next season lining up like this I would be very hopeful. I am gonna hazard a guess that unless we get promoted (highly unlikely) then Dack will be off.

The signings needed wouldn't cost a fortune and the Dack money would probably cover most of it.

I don't think Brereton, Davenport nor Chapman are good enough for a Top 6 chasing Championship team.

Replace Chapman with someone like Matt Phillips (following West Brom's inevitable promotion). I'd also rather see Tom White than a fit Davenport on the bench, and I'd sooner see us sell Ben Brereton than Bradley Dack.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Wegerleswiggle said:

I completely agree in the fact we need defenders asap.

Just wondered why you said that Rhodes isn't coming back. I think if DG goes to Australia then Rhodes on loan until the end of the season would be a good signing.

As much as I want Brereton to come good and eventually justify the price tag, I don't think he could do what Rhodes could in the final 5 months of the season.

Rhodes was loved at Champions Norwich last season and scored some vital LATE goals, something nobody in our team seems able to do.

 

Rhodes isnt a Graham type of striker for. Im not sure Graham will go to Australia. 

[47er]

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

I don't think Brereton, Davenport nor Chapman are good enough for a Top 6 chasing Championship team.

Replace Chapman with someone like Matt Phillips (following West Brom's inevitable promotion). I'd also rather see Tom White than a fit Davenport on the bench, and I'd sooner see us sell Ben Brereton than Bradley Dack.

More or less, we need what we needed in July, which is adequate comment on the summer's dealings in the transfer market.

As for selling Brereton, how much do we think we'd get? If we could get anything at all. 

[Stuart]

4 minutes ago, 47er said:

More or less, we need what we needed in July, which is adequate comment on the summer's dealings in the transfer market.

As for selling Brereton, how much do we think we'd get? If we could get anything at all. 

Which year?

[Claytons Left Boot]

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

I don't think Brereton, Davenport nor Chapman are good enough for a Top 6 chasing Championship team.

I really wouldn’t want to try and guess Brereton’s level. It certainly isn’t in the Championship, top six or not.

A mate of mine went to one of the earlier games this season with a Forest fan (not the Forest game) who couldn’t hide his delight, not only that someone had taken Brereton off their hands but also the fee they received.

[Pedro]

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

I don't think Brereton, Davenport nor Chapman are good enough for a Top 6 chasing Championship team.

Replace Chapman with someone like Matt Phillips (following West Brom's inevitable promotion). I'd also rather see Tom White than a fit Davenport on the bench, and I'd sooner see us sell Ben Brereton than Bradley Dack.

Let's actually see Chapman in the team first before writing him off.  I can often spot a player and that lad is bloody decent and way overdue his chance.  It genuinely pisses me off how he hasn't had a fair crack of the whip.  He'll be fast-tracking his way to wanting out and  demoralisation being the mug who is in the squad but never on the bench. He offers something that absolutely none of the others can and would compliment an out and out striker.

 

On the flipside, the wasted and prolonged opportunities offered to the likes of Bell and an out of position Bennett, who will never, ever make it at this level or above, rile me even more.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, 47er said:

As for selling Brereton, how much do we think we'd get? If we could get anything at all. 

Probably £1,500,000 to £2,500,000. I don't care though. Get him off the wages, get a small fee for him and move on from that disaster.

[Guest]

Just now, Pedro said:

Let's actually see Chapman in the team first before writing him off.  I can often spot a player and that lad is bloody decent and way overdue his chance.  It genuinely pisses me off how he hasn't had a fair crack of the whip.

I've seen enough of Chapman at 23's level to say I'd sooner see Joe Rothwell, Joe Rankin-Costello and Dan Butterworth given starts ahead of him. He's got major issues with his attitude in my opinion, he didn't impress at all against Oldham when he came on either. A nightmare of a transfer for me, and sadly a player nowhere near good enough for our first team.

[Pedro]

Just now, JoeH said:

I've seen enough of Chapman at 23's level to say I'd sooner see Joe Rothwell, Joe Rankin-Costello and Dan Butterworth given starts ahead of him. He's got major issues with his attitude in my opinion, he didn't impress at all against Oldham when he came on either. A nightmare of a transfer for me, and sadly a player nowhere near good enough for our first team.

Do you sit behind a pillar?

 

 

 

 

Only pulling your leg ?

 

In all seriousness, what are these issues with his attitude? The only time I hear this, is when people defend Mowbray for not having the bollocks to pick an attack-minded team or go for it late on. I personally feel that he is on the edge of losing his job and it will force his hand to do the obvious and try to win games - that might give Chapman a chance.

 

I'll be honest, if I was a lightening quick winger who scores, sets up and has proven my fitness in the U23's but has to frequently watch a load of out-of-position below par players be given chance after chance in a team that struggles to win or create chances, my attitude would be far worse than Chapman's.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Pedro

[roversfan99]

12 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Probably £1,500,000 to £2,500,000. I don't care though. Get him off the wages, get a small fee for him and move on from that disaster.

Not a chance wed get a fee that high for him IMO. 

[47er]

44 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Probably £1,500,000 to £2,500,000. I don't care though. Get him off the wages, get a small fee for him and move on from that disaster.

I doubt that many League 2 clubs could afford his wages! It really is a disaster.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Pedro said:

In all seriousness, what are these issues with his attitude? The only time I hear this, is when people defend Mowbray for not having the bollocks to pick an attack-minded team or go for it late on. I personally feel that he is on the edge of losing his job and it will force his hand to do the obvious and try to win games - that might give Chapman a chance.

I'll be honest, if I was a lightening quick winger who scores, sets up and has proven my fitness in the U23's but has to frequently watch a load of out-of-position below par players be given chance after chance in a team that struggles to win or create chances, my attitude would be far worse than Chapman's.

Hard to explain but he directly caused two red cards and an eventual loss to Wolves at Leyland earlier in the season with a massive temper tantrum. It was embarrassing. I think he's often found way too greedy on the ball for the 23's too, and whilst scoring goals, he is very rarely the best player on the pitch. Hence why I think JRC, Butterworth and Rothwell are ahead of him for me.

I'd be happy to say right Harry, here's five games starting for the first team, but I bet he wouldn't score, maybe get one assist? Nowhere near the finishing capabilities of Armstrong, and I don't think he has the agility and skill of Joe Rothwell personally.

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Hard to explain but he directly caused two red cards and an eventual loss to Wolves at Leyland earlier in the season with a massive temper tantrum. It was embarrassing.

I keep seeing you talk about this, but it doesn't matter what he did if he wasn't the one sent off. If another couple of players got themselves sent off by intervening, it's because of something THEY did. If he stayed on the pitch then he isn't responsible. You seem to have it in for Chapman and I can't figure out why. But in this scenario you should be blaming the two fools who got themselves sent off, whoever they were. Instead, for some reason you seem to think Harry is the only one who should keep his temper, even though what he did can't have been as bad.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I keep seeing you talk about this, but it doesn't matter what he did if he wasn't the one sent off. If another couple of players got themselves sent off by intervening, it's because of something THEY did. If he stayed on the pitch then he isn't responsible. You seem to have it in for Chapman and I can't figure out why. But in this scenario you should be blaming the two fools who got themselves sent off, whoever they were. Instead, for some reason you seem to think Harry is the only one who should keep his temper, even though what he did can't have been as bad.

Okay, I don't see it that way. His tantrum caused a cluster fuck in that game, it was unprofessional and unnecessary. I'm not saying other players didn't let themselves down too, but they're not the players being talked about here.

I stand by the fact that JRC, Rothwell and Butteworth have shown much more than him.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

You seem to have it in for Chapman and I can't figure out why. 

I don't have it in for him. I have it in for the idea that he's the best thing since sliced bread. People seem to think that he's amazing and can't get their heads around why Tony Mowbray won't play him. This whole Chapman thing started with me trying to explain, from my viewing of him in the Under 23's, why I think Tony is tentative to promote him.

He's constantly injured, has some attitude issues, is very ball greedy and in all honesty isn't showing himself to be any better than Adam Armstrong or Joe Rothwell, arguably the two players keeping him away from the first team.

I like Chapman, he can be pretty decent and entertaining to watch, but I'm mainly trying to explain why he's sat (uninjured and fit to play) in the 23's without any chances in the 1st team. JRC now making the bench ahead of him. I think that's about right, but other people don't, and I'm simply defending that and trying to explain why TM doesn't seem him to favour him at the minute.

[rigger]

Just now, JoeH said:

Okay, I don't see it that way. His tantrum caused a cluster fuck in that game, it was unprofessional and unnecessary. I'm not saying other players didn't let themselves down too, but they're not the players being talked about here.

I stand by the fact that JRC, Rothwell and Butteworth have shown much more than him.

Not as wingers they haven't

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

17 hours ago, Wegerleswiggle said:

If we kicked off next season lining up like this I would be very hopeful. I am gonna hazard a guess that unless we get promoted (highly unlikely) then Dack will be off.

The signings needed wouldn't cost a fortune and the Dack money would probably cover most of it.

How long as Mowbray been here ? Yet to compete at this level we appear to need 5 new first team players !

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 hours ago, JoeH said:

Probably £1,500,000 to £2,500,000. I don't care though. Get him off the wages, get a small fee for him and move on from that disaster.

We'd be very, very lucky to get as much as that at the moment. Why would any other club want to buy him ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 hours ago, JoeH said:

Sometimes you have to spend money on players WITHOUT the expectation of making money on the deal further down the line too. Ben Brereton, Sam Gallagher and Bradley Dack, and more were all signed under the premise that they may also make us some money down the line, as well as being good players for the club. But as the first two names on that list show, that's not always the most productive way to do business. To move up this league you have to invest in proven talent. The last name, Dack, went well for us, a steal at £750,000 - but Mowbray and Waggott would be VERY naive to assume that Dack is a formula we can replicate with every deal.

My main issue with our current transfer policy is that we've become a team who's determined to never spend any actual money (without an expectation to make some back). Promotion costs, and spending £7m on a young striker sounds like an attempt at that, but it's actually just "investment" and a way of viewing players as figures.

Charlie Austin at West Brom, he's the glue that makes that team tick, I've been really impressed with him personally this year. He has absolutely no return on investment potential what-so-ever, but if West Brom get automatics this season, it won't matter.

When Downing and Johnson came in, I began to think that maybe we'd stepped away from this "every player is a potential revenue stream" model, but I think the Sam Gallagher deal, and the sale of Raya, shows that the inherent ethos at the club still remains. Urgh. 

Charlie Austin is a good example. If he gets you promotion  and you think you need a better striker for the Prem you sell him on to another Championship club  for  more or less what you paid for him. If you don't get promoted you keep him for another go at promotion.

That's a much more sensible purchase that chucking big bucks at some kid who may or may not make it 2 or 3 years in the future.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Guest]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Charlie Austin is a good example. If he gets you promotion  and you think you need a better striker for the Prem you sell him on to another Championship club  for what more or less what you paid for him. If you don't get promoted you keep him for another go at promotion.

That's a much more sensible purchase that chucking big bucks at some kid who may or may not make it 2 or 3 years in the future.

To be fair, very true.

[Adam C]

On 06/11/2019 at 11:42, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If you're intending to play 4-4-2 to accommodate the Rhodes type of player you may as well play Armstrong up there. At least he's quick and he won't cost us anything. I think Rhodes is finished as a starting player because hardly anybody plays that way now.

Not many teams play 4-4-2 to be fair but I wonder would Armstrong be better in a two. He’s not the best finisher and I think Rhodes had a real poacher’s instinct for knowing where to be in the box which sets him way above Armstrong as a striker. I don’t think Rhodes would cost much on a loan though he may well be on big wages. 

[Amo]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

I don't have it in for him. I have it in for the idea that he's the best thing since sliced bread. People seem to think that he's amazing and can't get their heads around why Tony Mowbray won't play him.

I don't think anyone has Chapman down as a world-beater. What they see is a quick, direct winger who's out in the cold for reasons they can't fathom. We're pedestrian in the way we move the ball about, having someone like that could inject some fresh impetus but because he's a bit ball-greedy or too mercurial for Mowbray's liking, he doesn't make the cut.

[joey_big_nose]

31 minutes ago, The Hypnotic said:

Not many teams play 4-4-2 to be fair but I wonder would Armstrong be better in a two. He’s not the best finisher and I think Rhodes had a real poacher’s instinct for knowing where to be in the box which sets him way above Armstrong as a striker. I don’t think Rhodes would cost much on a loan though he may well be on big wages. 

If we went 442 it becomes a problem to fit in the likes of Dack, Holtby and Rothwell. We'd have to play a CM combo of the likes of Travis and Johnson for stability and wide players who can get up and down. It would make us defensively very fragile to pack a midfield four with Dack, Holtby etc.

Our best players are attacking central midfielders - hence why we end up with 451 or 4141 to fit them in with the requires support.