Lewis Holtby

[Guest]

Just now, rigger said:

I will 

Despite the fact we've had more clean sheets under EB, more wins, and all of those stats proving his abilities over RN? Mental.

[rigger]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

Despite the fact we've had more clean sheets under EB, more wins, and all of those stats proving his abilities over RN? Mental.

I don’t judge on stats, I judge on what I see. With this in mind I stand by opinion that Nyambe is a better right back than Bennett 

[Guest]

Just now, rigger said:

I don’t judge on stats, I judge on what I see. With this in mind I stand by opinion that Nyambe is a better right back than Bennett 

And what do you see? Just interested.

[rigger]

Just now, JoeH said:

And what do you see? Just interested.

A better right back than Bennett 

[Guest]

Just now, rigger said:

A better right back than Bennett 

Yeah you've said that, I just mean, at Ewood, what are you seeing to come to that conclusion? Because I would love to know what it is. We don't win more with RN, we don't keep more clean sheets than RN, so why is RN better to you?

[Atko's Engine]

As for Lewis Holtby...

[Atko's Engine]

I reckon he'll start on Saturday, probably in place of Evans from last week's starting lineup.

[JacknOry]

Is that just stats for playing RB or stats for the whole season in all positions? 

Because i do not remember EB scoring and getting 3 assists from RB

Also it saya 35 shots EB had.  I think your stats are a little off mate. He played over the shop last season.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by JacknOry

[Guest]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Is that just stats for playing RB or stats for the whole season in all positions? 

Because i do not remember EB scoring and getting 3 assists from RB

2 assists from RB. Goal came when he moved to RM against Sheff Wed away.

[Guest]

Just now, Atko's Engine said:

I reckon he'll start on Saturday, probably in place of Evans from last week's starting lineup.

Yeah probably, would be a good call!

[JacknOry]

Just now, JoeH said:

2 assists from RB. Goal came when he moved to RM against Sheff Wed away.

And the 35 shots? 

 

Bit unfair to be comparing stats when EB played midfield,  wing,  rb ans just about anywhere else. Those stats do not mean he is a better rb. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by JacknOry

[Guest]

Just now, JacknOry said:

And the 35 shots? 

Couldn't tell you, data at that level isn't really available to me. Even if all 35 came from RM (which I'm sure they didn't) it would only go to show Benno's versatility, and wether it's 3 or 30, it's more than Nyambe's 2.

Edited September 26, 2019 by JoeH

[JBiz]

10 hours ago, JoeHarvey said:

I don't really think Benno is a long term RB solution, but if you look at his record there vs Nyambe's record there ( who I also like ) it's not contest.

Bennett is a better passer of the ball, a better crosser, a better shooter and has a lot more experience. Nyambe's not got much besides pace on Benno, and whilst I agree he isn't perfect, our goals against tally with Bennett in the side vs Nyambe in recent years, shows that he's the better option.

JRC, another great young player, isn't really an out and out right back, and including those three, and maybe Charley Doyle in the academy at a push, I don't see who's as good as him.

Was a hill I was prepared to die alone on over the summer, thankfully others starting to see it.

Id sooner we utilise Benno and see if JRC, Nyambe can step up, as invariably in 50 odd games, injuries, suspensions etc can rack up.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Harry The Bass

[JacknOry]

Just now, JoeH said:

Couldn't tell you, data at that level isn't really available to me. Even if all 35 came from RM (which I'm sure they didn't) it would only go to show Benno's versatility, and wether it's 3 or 30, it's more than Nyambe's 2.

It shows his versatility yes,  not that he is a better RB.  You need direct stats for both players and only the performances in that position,  otherwise they are greatly skewed. 

So,  sorry try again to use stats to back up your opinion. 

[bluebruce]

54 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I wouldn't. Just go back and watch some of Nyambe's defending last season - PNE away a classic example.

That was every other game last season for Bennett.

[rigger]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Yeah you've said that, I just mean, at Ewood, what are you seeing to come to that conclusion? Because I would love to know what it is. We don't win more with RN, we don't keep more clean sheets than RN, so why is RN better to you?

Nyambe is physically stronger and faster, which makes him harder to beat . What I have seen at Ewood and more importantly away, when we are under more pressure is less times that Nyambe has been beaten at right back than Williams 

[bluebruce]

Just now, JoeH said:

Couldn't tell you, data at that level isn't really available to me. Even if all 35 came from RM (which I'm sure they didn't) it would only go to show Benno's versatility, and wether it's 3 or 30, it's more than Nyambe's 2.

I don't want a utility player who can be squeezed in at right back though. I want a right back. He ain't it.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

It shows his versatility yes,  not that he is a better RB.  You need direct stats for both players and only the performances in that position,  otherwise they are greatly skewed. 

So,  sorry try again to use stats to back up your opinion. 

Of course, there's a slight issue on goals and assists as a midfielder is much more likely to get them, I admit, but as mentioned I don't have the data for that.

But general passing, tackling, running etc... is general ability and not affected by the position you're playing in. I'll also note that EB played more than half of his games at RB last season.

If those stats don't show you that EB is better than RN then I think you're just being a little stubborn.

[Sparks Rover]

I prefer my eyes not useless stats . Nyambe is on another level compared to bennett.  

Edited September 26, 2019 by Sparks Rover

[old darwen blue]

3 hours ago, bluebruce said:

I don't want a utility player who can be squeezed in at right back though. I want a right back. He ain't it.

Love Benno as a Rovers player but I can't argue with this post. 

[JacknOry]

6 hours ago, JoeH said:

Of course, there's a slight issue on goals and assists as a midfielder is much more likely to get them, I admit, but as mentioned I don't have the data for that.

But general passing, tackling, running etc... is general ability and not affected by the position you're playing in. I'll also note that EB played more than half of his games at RB last season.

If those stats don't show you that EB is better than RN then I think you're just being a little stubborn.

More than a slight issue.

Passing stats for one, you are going to see far more of the ball in the middle of the pitch than at FB and you are going to have a higher number of attempted passes and a higher success rate. You have more options around you while at FB often you are under more pressure to get a pass away (often just clearing the ball in a hit and hope style pass up the pitch).

As i said, you need direct comparison stats rather than using a seasons worth of stats with Benno playing multiple positions. For one, id like to know how many times Benno was skinned compared to Nyambe at RB and how many chances/goals conceded were down to either. Whenever Benno played RB it seemed that his side was always heavily targeted by the oppo while this never seemed to be the same when Nyambe played.  

As for stubborness, i would suggest that is coming from you. Not many seem to be agreeing with your skewed opinion and stats. I respect your opinion as everybody has a right to one but dont try shutting down debate with skewed stats as if they are some kind of fact that proves your opinion right. Get direct comparisons and then we can talk.

[Mattyblue]

I was a big fan of Nyambe, for a teenager he looked to have the lot.

However there is no doubt for me that he’s regressed as a full back. Now you could well blame TM for that as he was unceremoniously dropped back end of last season when he was no worse than the rest of the defence, but currently I wouldn’t be starting him as he seems to be bereft of confidence.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Guest]

2 hours ago, JacknOry said:

More than a slight issue.

Passing stats for one, you are going to see far more of the ball in the middle of the pitch than at FB and you are going to have a higher number of attempted passes and a higher success rate. You have more options around you while at FB often you are under more pressure to get a pass away (often just clearing the ball in a hit and hope style pass up the pitch).

 As i said, you need direct comparison stats rather than using a seasons worth of stats with Benno playing multiple positions. For one, id like to know how many times Benno was skinned compared to Nyambe at RB and how many chances/goals conceded were down to either. Whenever Benno played RB it seemed that his side was always heavily targeted by the oppo while this never seemed to be the same when Nyambe played.  

As for stubborness, i would suggest that is coming from you. Not many seem to be agreeing with your skewed opinion and stats. I respect your opinion as everybody has a right to one but dont try shutting down debate with skewed stats as if they are some kind of fact that proves your opinion right. Get direct comparisons and then we can talk.

Midfielders are more likely to place inaccurate passes than defenders, as most defenders attempted passes are sideways and backwards.

It's not a "skewed" opinion, I've provided my own factual evidence comparing the two players - you've provided an opinion also - it's kind of how this works.

[JacknOry]

Just now, JoeH said:

Midfielders are more likely to place inaccurate passes than defenders, as most defenders attempted passes are sideways and backwards.

It's not a "skewed" opinion, I've provided my own factual evidence comparing the two players - you've provided an opinion also - it's kind of how this works.

No they are not as midfielders have far more options for a pass. They can go back, to both sides, forwards, to the wings. Its why a certain Lowe always had great stats without doing much apart from picking easy passes to the side. A FB is often isolated on his side of the pitch and either has to find a cb, gk, or try to be more positive to find the guy in front of him.

Its not 'factual' evidence though. You are comparing apples with oranges in terms of statistics. As you said, only half of Bennos performances were at FB which means that 50% of those stats are skewed. That does not sound factual to me.

 

[Guest]

 

Just now, JacknOry said:

No they are not as midfielders have far more options for a pass. They can go back, to both sides, forwards, to the wings. Its why a certain Lowe always had great stats without doing much apart from picking easy passes to the side. A FB is often isolated on his side of the pitch and either has to find a cb, gk, or try to be more positive to find the guy in front of him.

Its not 'factual' evidence though. You are comparing apples with oranges in terms of statistics. As you said, only half of Bennos performances were at FB which means that 50% of those stats are skewed. That does not sound factual to me.

 

If you truly think midfielders have easier passing options you're mental. Defenders always have great pass accuracy stats and success rates because their passes are so simple. 

Here's some examples of Ryan Nyambe's superior defending:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSqKDlWf3a8 - from 00:05 to 00:15 and then 00:21 to 00:30 (please also see 01:22 to 01:28)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzzu8bC2OH4 - from 00:04 to 00:16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhW7Z_51ttk - from 00:24 to 00:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF-BuZxEjJA - from 01:38 to 01:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCQb2a75-xA&t=46s - from 01:41 to 01:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yut-A683wnc - from 00:36 to 00:50 and 02:32 to 02:44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7CUw-OGl2g - from 01:08 to 01:21 (although this is an example of our poor defending in general and also Amari'i Bell!)

I'm not going to spend all day scouring the web, but your point about EB being beaten more times than RN is odd. There's no statistical evidence to back up that claim in any way. I've tried to provide some visual above to disprove.