match thread Reading (A)

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Vilesinner said:

I only care about the team winning. Wouldn't care less if Gallagher didn't score all season if we made the playoffs. Gallagher plays an important part in the team and our success. ?

Exactly

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, Vilesinner said:

I only care about the team winning. Wouldn't care less if Gallagher didn't score all season if we made the playoffs. Gallagher plays an important part in the team and our success. ?

So should we not critique the team on anything but the result? Ie if we win but theres an area of potential improvement, we shouldnt mention it, and conversely, if we lose but someone plays well we shouldnt mention that either? 

A striker who has started 7 and come on in the 8th of our league games this season and is yet to score a goal (or rarely even threaten) is something to consider. We will need our striker to score goals over the course of the play offs in order to make the play offs.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

So should we not critique the team on anything but the result? Ie if we win but theres an area of potential improvement, we shouldnt mention it, and conversely, if we lose but someone plays well we shouldnt mention that either? 

A striker who has started 7 and come on in the 8th of our league games this season and is yet to score a goal (or rarely even threaten) is something to consider. We will need our striker to score goals over the course of the play offs in order to make the play offs.

Gallagher scored 11 goals from 43 appearances in an inferior side when he was last with us so he is capable of a reasonable return - and the manager is clearly happy with much of his present contribution. Ultimately any successful side wins and loses as a team and if he is part of a team that has begun to deliver the results I think we should be happy

[roversfan99]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

Gallagher scored 11 goals from 43 appearances in an inferior side when he was last with us so he is capable of a reasonable return - and the manager is clearly happy with much of his present contribution. Ultimately any successful side wins and loses as a team and if he is part of a team that has begun to deliver the results I think we should be happy

So surely by that same token you were unhappy with his contribution when we were losing every week in his last spell? Even though he scored some goals, albeit 1 in 4 is very average.

Its obviously true that he was in an inferior side last time but ultimately and factually, Coyles tactics seemed to suit Gallagher more than Mowbrays have done, in either spell. He was far more of a goal threat under Coyle in his 442, with Emnes or Graham with him, and wingers either side. 

To clarify, I am well aware that Coyles tactics and management as a whole were obviously terrible as a whole, and he is a terrible manager.

He does have some attributes to his game that ae helpful but I think as our striker it is pretty obvious that he needs to start scoring goals to merit his place going forward. 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

So should we not critique the team on anything but the result? Ie if we win but theres an area of potential improvement, we shouldnt mention it, and conversely, if we lose but someone plays well we shouldnt mention that either? 

A striker who has started 7 and come on in the 8th of our league games this season and is yet to score a goal (or rarely even threaten) is something to consider. We will need our striker to score goals over the course of the play offs in order to make the play offs.

1. How many games has he played wide out of 8 games? 

2. How many chances has he really in those games? maybe 3 or 4 at best? but the team is winning and goals are being scored by other players instead of relying on Dack, Mulgrew and Graham to score? surely this good thing? 

3. He has played well in majority of those games including winning majority of his headers against opposition? 

4. The team is a work in progress at the minute but we are 4pts off top and a Manager who has different options in terms of players and tactics we can used. surely again good thing and something that deserve alot of credit? 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It's only a problem if you have an opponent competing for the ball with you. Like I said what goalscoring opportunities came from all the headers ?

No it isn’t if you are facing your own goal when you get the ball your choices usually are pass back to the keeper or turn blind not knowing where exactly the opposition is. Both can and will lead to mistakes 

Edited September 22, 2019 by rigger

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, rigger said:

No it isn’t if you are facing your own goal when you get the ball your choices usually are pass back to the keeper or turn blind not knowing where exactly the opposition is

One centre half should be covering the guy who's jumping for the ball with Gallagher. Meat and drink to most Championship centre halves. It'd be another story if somebody rapid like Armstrong was playing up there on his shoulder, but norrnally he isn't.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[rigger]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

One centre half should be covering the guy who's jumping for the ball with Gallagher. Meat and drink to most Championship centre halves. It'd be another story if somebody rapid like Armstrong was playing up there on his shoulder, but norrnally he isn't.

So Gallagher is not the problem. It’s the way we play that is the problem. But back to the original point. The reason the flick-ons are useful, despite not leading to goals, is that they make the defence have to play under more pressure.

Edited September 22, 2019 by rigger

[Erased Citizen]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

he may be hardworking? No he is hard working. works his socks off. 

How many chances has he really had? maybe at best 3 or 4. He took his chance at Sheff Utd and scored a good heading goal

That could be more down to Gallagher than anything else. Graham is definitely better than him at being in the right place to pick up anything loose in the box

Edited September 22, 2019 by Erased Citizen

[47er]

8 hours ago, JoeHarvey said:

Next five games:

Luton Town (H)

Nottingham Forest (H)

QPR (A)

Huddersfield Town (H) {On Sky}

Birmingham City (A)

 

Honestly based off of the Reading and Millwall performances, I’m expecting 11 points for the next 5. Would put us on 24 from 13 games.

But what about you, 5 games, what can you see us picking up?

TBH I daren't guess. Could be anything. In terms of form, you'd think we would beat Luton, Huddersfield and at least draw at Brum.

[roversfan99]

30 minutes ago, Erased Citizen said:

That could be more down to Gallagher than anything else. Graham is definitely better than him at being in the right place to pick up anything loose in the box

Absolutely. Mentioned earlier that good strikers miss chances even when they arent scoring, by getting into the right positions.

[philipl]

12 hours ago, JoeHarvey said:

Next five games:

Luton Town (H)

Nottingham Forest (H)

QPR (A)

Huddersfield Town (H) {On Sky}

Birmingham City (A)

 

Honestly based off of the Reading and Millwall performances, I’m expecting 11 points for the next 5. Would put us on 24 from 13 games.

But what about you, 5 games, what can you see us picking up?

Three of those five are against clubs above us in the league.

[RV Blue]

12 hours ago, Harry The Bass said:

Sorry but can I just unequivocally state that I believe this to be complete horse manure?

In my opinion, he’s come on leaps and bounds because of the management team, not despite it.

His best performance for us was his first/second proper start in the Championship, against West Brom at home. Has he really come on leaps and bounds since then?

[Mashed Potatoes]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

So surely by that same token you were unhappy with his contribution when we were losing every week in his last spell? Even though he scored some goals, albeit 1 in 4 is very average.

Its obviously true that he was in an inferior side last time but ultimately and factually, Coyles tactics seemed to suit Gallagher more than Mowbrays have done, in either spell. He was far more of a goal threat under Coyle in his 442, with Emnes or Graham with him, and wingers either side. 

To clarify, I am well aware that Coyles tactics and management as a whole were obviously terrible as a whole, and he is a terrible manager.

He does have some attributes to his game that ae helpful but I think as our striker it is pretty obvious that he needs to start scoring goals to merit his place going forward. 

I was very unhappy with what happened that season which I think was principally down to Owen Coyle failing to organise the team in a way to give us sufficient defensive solidity .- I don't put that at Gallagher's door - as I recall he seemed to be putting in 100% in the way the manager was playing him

[Atko's Engine]

Isn't the issue here more about whether Gallagher is a striker or a forward? A striker, either by talent or formation, scores goals and does little else. It's the role of the rest of the team to get the ball to him so he can strike. Like Rhodes.

Gallagher is not a striker, or at least he's not being utilised as one. He's playing as a forward, mainly in a wider role but pretty much anywhere across the front / midfield in a way that's inter changing with other forwards and attacking midfielders. In that role he's there to create problems for defenders that he or team mates can profit from, whilst also tracking back when required out wide.

He's therefore being played differently to how Graham was last season, as he's being asked to play a wider role far more often due to his pace & mobility, something Graham never had, so they're not directly comparable. Though I accept Graham has more to his game than being just a striker too.

Overall, his contributions in games is excellent imo, though we'd all be happier if he scored more goals like we know he can. We can debate about whether or not he's being utilised in his best position by TM, but ultimately he's an important cog in the wheel of a team that is playing well & winning games. That's not just my opinion, or me repeating the manager's words; wasn't it Rigger who said Reading's fans thought he was our best player,  or words to that effect?

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Atko's Engine said:

Isn't the issue here more about whether Gallagher is a striker or a forward? A striker, either by talent or formation, scores goals and does little else. It's the role of the rest of the team to get the ball to him so he can strike. Like Rhodes.

Gallagher is not a striker, or at least he's not being utilised as one. He's playing as a forward, mainly in a wider role but pretty much anywhere across the front / midfield in a way that's inter changing with other forwards and attacking midfielders. In that role he's there to create problems for defenders that he or team mates can profit from, whilst also tracking back when required out wide.

He's therefore being played differently to how Graham was last season, as he's being asked to play a wider role far more often due to his pace & mobility, something Graham never had, so they're not directly comparable. Though I accept Graham has more to his game than being just a striker too.

Overall, his contributions in games is excellent imo, though we'd all be happier if he scored more goals like we know he can. We can debate about whether or not he's being utilised in his best position by TM, but ultimately he's an important cog in the wheel of a team that is playing well & winning games. That's not just my opinion, or me repeating the manager's words; wasn't it Rigger who said Reading's fans thought he was our best player,  or words to that effect?

 

I think this puts it very well indeed

[MarkBRFC]

17 hours ago, JoeHarvey said:

Next five games:

Luton Town (H)

Nottingham Forest (H)

QPR (A)

Huddersfield Town (H) {On Sky}

Birmingham City (A)

 

Honestly based off of the Reading and Millwall performances, I’m expecting 11 points for the next 5. Would put us on 24 from 13 games.

But what about you, 5 games, what can you see us picking up?

It's always a dangerous game looking that far ahead, when you start predicting x point from y games something will trip you up.

If we are totally realistic, and not getting too giddy from beating two of the worst sides in the league, I can see 2 wins, 1 or 2 defeats and 1 or 2 draws from that little period.

As for the Gallagher debate, I think he has all the tools to play that lone forward role and be our focal point of the likes of Armstrong, Dack, Holtby etc playing off him, but at the minute he doesn't look a goal threat at all, and ultimately that's what he will be judged on.

Edited September 23, 2019 by MarkBRFC

[rigger]

11 hours ago, LDRover said:

Only if it's a shite back line. Generally one centre half will compete and the other will drop 10 yards behind to cover. Added to that the 2 full backs will tuck in narrow to cover as well.

If you're talking about long diagonal balls that's different but would also suggest Gallagher is playing wide rather than central.

So yet again it is down to the way we are playing rather than his abilities. All of the Reading fans I spoke to after the game would have swapped Gallagher for any of their forwards.

[47er]

Just now, rigger said:

So yet again it is down to the way we are playing rather than his abilities. All of the Reading fans I spoke to after the game would have swapped Gallagher for any of their forwards.

I'd swap £5M Gallagher for free transfer Pukki!!

[joey_big_nose]

Gallagher obviously adds a lot to the team. Unbelievable work rate, good in the air, quick, strong. Any centreback or full back (depending where he plays) up against him knows they will have a really really hard time.

That said it's obvious even in a very good season he will struggle to get 15+ goals.  We do need a striker with a better goal return than Armstrong, Gallagher and Brereton - that's obvious. But I would be happy to  play someone like that alongside Gallagher ultimately.

For the meantime the midfielders and defenders need to keep scoring.

[rigger]

4 minutes ago, 47er said:

I'd swap £5M Gallagher for free transfer Pukki!!

Would you get Pukki on a free transfer now. I'd swap £5m Gallagher for free transfer Messi, but that is unrealistic also. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by rigger

[philipl]

Hey guys,

Gallagher is putting in more than a shift every game and we are in the top six in the current form table.

Chill

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, RV Blue said:

His best performance for us was his first/second proper start in the Championship, against West Brom at home. Has he really come on leaps and bounds since then?

Holy crap - you mean we’re criticising Travis now? Jesus, lads gone from obscurity to being as good as a ball winning midfielder as I’ve seen at Ewood in years.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, RV Blue said:

His best performance for us was his first/second proper start in the Championship, against West Brom at home. Has he really come on leaps and bounds since then?

Of course he has. Travis has improved so much. Cant believe you are questioning it tbh

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, MarkBRFC said:

It's always a dangerous game looking that far ahead, when you start predicting x point from y games something will trip you up.

If we are totally realistic, and not getting too giddy from beating two of the worst sides in the league, I can see 2 wins, 1 or 2 defeats and 1 or 2 draws from that little period.

Historically, Rovers have been poor against the lesser teams and have performed better versus the so called bigger teams. So to beat two lesser teams as you describe them is nothing but good in my book.