match thread Reading (A)

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The teams you refer to Paul may rotate personnel, mainly because of the sheer volumes of games that being involved in four major competitions means. However they very rarely change the way the play. Players come in and out but the shape stays the same.The have a system and they stick to it. When we won the Prem we had a very basic pattern of play that never varied and worked very well for us.

Also 25 years ago.

There’s not many teams that score goals for fun playing a wide 442 with two target men these days.

Funnily enough, Burnley are about as close as I can think of, yet their entire philosophy is about being 100% committed, organised and extremely hard to break down.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, Doug said:

Competition for places is essential for a team with asperations. 

We have a good selection of midfielders, the most demanding position on the pitch IMO, and this should prove beneficial as the season progresses.

Pick a team to exploit your opponents weaknesses or to null their strengths.

Great result yesterday, a couple more wins over the next few weeks could see us right up there!

Keeping all those midfielders happy when they won't be getting game time, or even making the bench is the other side of that coin. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

Also 25 years ago.

There’s not many teams that score goals for fun playing a wide 442 with two target men these days.

Funnily enough, Burnley are about as close as I can think of, yet their entire philosophy is about being 100% committed, organised and extremely hard to break down.

Nothing wrong with that matey. I'd swap places with them tomorrow. They are still 2 goals better than we are.

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Nothing wrong with that matey. I'd swap places with them tomorrow. They are still 2 goals better than we are.

I would in a handshake - Funnily enough many of their fans would’ve said bye to Dyche last year too.

I do think that we should be impressed that our current squad can react to an illness outbreak the day of the game, play a system they haven’t practiced all week with a few changes in personnel - and then control a game.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

Also 25 years ago.

There’s not many teams that score goals for fun playing a wide 442 with two target men these days.

Funnily enough, Burnley are about as close as I can think of, yet their entire philosophy is about being 100% committed, organised and extremely hard to break down.

Suspect that it is because the days where a big centre forward could bully his way around the penalty area means today would be called a foul he cant fight to get on the end of crosses. Defensively though two banks of four is still regularly seen

Edited September 22, 2019 by dingles staying down 4ever

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Suspect that it is because the days where a big centre forward could bully his way around the penalty area means he cant fight to get on the end of crosses. Defensively though two banks of four is still regularly seen

There are areas of the pitch you need bodies in. That hasn't changed for a long,long time.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

There are areas of the pitch you need bodies in. That hasn't changed for a long,long time.

Agree. Oppositions penalty box when we are attacking would be nice occasionally. Seldom seen when playing with a false No.9 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

22 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Agree. Oppositions penalty box when we are attacking would be nice occasionally. Seldom seen when playing with a false No.9 

That's where the goals come from. Get in the box as often as you can. Especially when you're shot shy from distance as Rovers are. Excepting the Williams bolt from the blue last week.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Ossydave]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That's were the goals come from. Get in the box as often as you can. Especially when you're shot shy from distance as Rovers are. Excepting the Williams bolt from the blue last week.

Erm what about the bolt from the blue yesterday too then from Armstrong ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Ossydave said:

Erm what about the bolt from the blue yesterday too then from Armstrong ?

Yeah you're right Dave. Maybe we've got the message about having a pop from distance. 2 in 2 games, can you remember the last one from outside the penalty area ?

Edited September 22, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[47er]

Just now, Ossydave said:

Erm what about the bolt from the blue yesterday too then from Armstrong ?

It was from the blue wasn't it? People calling for his head because he'd scored 1 in 25 games. 2 in 26 isn't exactly great is it?

But he's saved himself for another 10 games no doubt.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, 47er said:

It was from the blue wasn't it? People calling for his head because he'd scored 1 in 25 games. 2 in 26 isn't exactly great is it?

But he's saved himself for another 10 games no doubt.

I heard if Rothwell hadn't have cried off yesterday morning he was in and Armstrong was out. On another tack, what's happened with Davenport ? Has he fallen down the same black hole as Gladwin ?

Edited September 22, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

The team is picked to win games and we won both matches ffs!! ?

Preston play the the same team every week because they have nothing behind the first XI. They couldn’t dream of having the quality of Nyambe, Johnson, Buckley, Holtby and Graham sat waiting to come on with Tosin and Rothwell sat out of the 18. Not to mention Chapman, BB, JRC etc to be integrated.

This notion of playing the same team every week is completely outdated. You only have to look at every successful team in the last two years to see that other than a core of 6/7, rotation is pretty normal now. It’s based on the idea that you increase the overall squad quality, then there isn’t a dip in performance regardless of who plays. It also prevents injury and keeps people fresh.

 

agree 1000% 

32 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The teams you refer to Paul may rotate personnel, mainly because of the sheer volumes of games that being involved in four major competitions means. However they very rarely change the way the play. Players come in and out but the shape stays the same.The have a system and they stick to it. When we won the Prem we had a very basic pattern of play that never varied and worked very well for us.

surely you need different options formation wise for the reasons posted yesterday. 

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont think he gets into goalscoring positions often enough which is not a great sign. He needs to add goals to keep his place IMO. 

You didn't answer my question. 

Gallagher work rate was excellent and never stop all day. Thought he should have done better with his 1st half shot. 

2 hours ago, 47er said:

You really don't think we've accumulated too many players, especially in mid-field? 

Were Preston precariously placed last season when they beat us twice and finished above us?

 

 

People complained last season about the quality in centre mid and now Mowbray has moved Smallwood out of the team, Evans has become a squad player, We signed Johnson, Travis development over the 12 months is a major plus, and the signingsw of Downing and Holtby are quality. 

We were awful at Preston last season but Nyambe is out of team(Robinson ripped him apart), Mulgrew and Raya gone. We are much better defensively now

Preston are a good team but don't have the strength in depth in quality we do in Midfield and up front tho They do have a quality manager and good 14 or 15 players. 

[roversfan99]

25 minutes ago, Harry The Bass said:

I would in a handshake - Funnily enough many of their fans would’ve said bye to Dyche last year too.

I do think that we should be impressed that our current squad can react to an illness outbreak the day of the game, play a system they haven’t practiced all week with a few changes in personnel - and then control a game.

That system is the same system that they have played for the last 2 years though.

The point that @Tyrone Shoelaces makes is bang on, its not specific to our title winning team, it is about how having a settled system and what that can bring cannot be underestimated. There are other examples, Norwich played 4231, Sheff United mastered the 3 at the back and wing backs, with overlapping centre backs, Villa went 433 with Grealish and McGinn in front of a screen of Whelan or Hourihane. All 3 went up playing different formations but all with consistency.

I would totally disagree with what @Paul Mani said about Prestons squad too in terms of its depth. At the moment Alan Browne is often left on the bench due to the form of Johnson as 10 in front of Pearson and Gallagher. They similarly to us have plenty of midfield options, Potts, Bodin, Harrop, Barkhuizen, Ledson, and when needed/chosen, they slot in and it doesnt cause any confusion, or any inconsistency, everyone knows their shape. They can also go with the movement of Maguire or more direct with Stockley up top.

Playing a consistent, regular formation and system doesnt mean that you dont have flexibility, that comes through the personnel. As Paul Mani said, our midfield choices tend to have different skillsets, we have technical ones, we have physical ones who can get the ball back for us, we have ones who can run at players.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

agree 1000% 

surely you need different options formation wise for the reasons posted yesterday. 

You didn't answer my question. 

Gallagher work rate was excellent and never stop all day. Thought he should have done better with his 1st half shot. 

People complained last season about the quality in centre mid and now Mowbray has moved Smallwood out of the team, Evans has become a squad player, We signed Johnson, Travis development over the 12 months is a major plus, and the signingsw of Downing and Holtby are quality. 

We were awful at Preston last season but Nyambe is out of team(Robinson ripped him apart), Mulgrew and Raya gone. We are much better defensively now

Preston are a good team but don't have the strength in depth in quality we do in Midfield and up front tho They do have a quality manager and good 14 or 15 players. 

We won yesterday playing the system, 4 at the back, that we've used most of the season.

You look at the skill set of your players and design your system of play around that. Not the other way around.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We won yesterday playing the system, 4 at the back, that we've used most of the season.

You look at the skill set of your players and design your system of play around that. Not the other way around.

granted it was 4 the back but the plan all week was 3 at the back until Tosin injured and Rothwell being ill. 

We need have the options where we can play different formations and situations in games. We need have a squad that can adapt and vary our play and set up which I see has a major bonus

[JBiz]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

We need have the options where we can play different formations and situations in games. We need have a squad that can adapt and vary our play and set up which I see has a major bonus

Adapt is a key term - yesterday too, hanging on to points is something we couldn’t do last year - Perhaps personnel is more important than tactics for this, the great “game management” debate.

[47er]

How come so many of our players get injured or sick? Or does it just seem that way?

Is Davenport a real person?

 

(Sorry Tyrone---just noticed you asked the same question!)

Edited September 22, 2019 by 47er

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

agree 1000% 

surely you need different options formation wise for the reasons posted yesterday. 

You didn't answer my question. 

Gallagher work rate was excellent and never stop all day. Thought he should have done better with his 1st half shot. 

People complained last season about the quality in centre mid and now Mowbray has moved Smallwood out of the team, Evans has become a squad player, We signed Johnson, Travis development over the 12 months is a major plus, and the signingsw of Downing and Holtby are quality. 

We were awful at Preston last season but Nyambe is out of team(Robinson ripped him apart), Mulgrew and Raya gone. We are much better defensively now

Preston are a good team but don't have the strength in depth in quality we do in Midfield and up front tho They do have a quality manager and good 14 or 15 players. 

What was your question, the one about the chances Gallagher had yesterday? I couldnt comment, I (presumably like yourself) didnt watch the game myself. I saw the chance he had which he blazed over when he should have scored. Have you heard the phrase when a striker is going through a dry spell and keeps missing chances, "at least hes getting into the right position."  I would consider how rarely Gallagher looks even likely to score to be a concern too. All this said, my comment about 0 goals in 8 league appearances (7 starts) is perfectly valid, our striker really must offer a goal threat, and I am entitled to question his place in the team if he continues to fail to do so. We need our striker to score goals.

I think our options in midfield are a reason to be optimistic, but your comments on Preston are a little strange. They definitely do have depth, especially in midfield like ourselves. Pearson, Gallagher, Johnson, Browne, Harrop, Bodin, Barkhuizen, Potts, Bayliss, Ledson. The main thing there though is the CONSISTENCY in the way that they play. They can mix it up in terms of personnel, but that system stays the same, the changed players slot straight in and as a result Neil is getting the very best from those players. Thats a further example of what regularity in way of playing can do. I think the likes of Holtby, Johnson and Downing would have potentially been unobtainable due to their wage demands, I suspect that Mowbray has got an advantage over Neil due to Prestons low wage cap. Preston have made a name for signing players for really low prices, Johnson for 50k, Barkhuizen dirt cheap from Morecambe, Browne (and Maguire) for peanuts from Ireland, and developed them into top Championship performers. If we could replicate that level of consistency and familiarity, then I would like to think that our quality of players could end up surpassing those at Preston.

Do you really think that Preston "couldnt dream" of having someone like Buckley on the bench?! Baring in mind that he has struggled when he has played physically, and Preston have signed Bayliss, a player who has really impressed for Coventry, who cost 2m and cant get on the bench. Or Nyambe?

[rigger]

Just back from Reading, in their bar after the match, all the Reading fans I spoke to, were very impressed with Sam Gallagher, as was I.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The teams you refer to Paul may rotate personnel, mainly because of the sheer volumes of games that being involved in four major competitions means. However they very rarely change the way the play. Players come in and out but the shape stays the same.The have a system and they stick to it. When we won the Prem we had a very basic pattern of play that never varied and worked very well for us.

Spot on, TM as much as i admire some of the stuff he does clearly has a rotation policy which fluctuates between keeping his squad happy and fearing the opposition.

I notice his personal PR man is back again, same guy who'd be absent if we'd lost 3 on the trot. The point he always misses is Mowbray has been here now for several seasons, get this...we know how he works.

More often than not to be fair his methods see us through so more power to him. As always though consistency is what gets you places so if we/he develop that in terms of seeing out games we'll be on a winner.

[joey_big_nose]

37 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I heard if Rothwell hadn't have cried off yesterday morning he was in and Armstrong was out. On another tack, what's happened with Davenport ? Has he fallen down the same black hole as Gladwin ?

Forgot completely about Davenport. After a decent end to last season he's had 3 players come in ahead of him (Buckley, Johnson, Holtby) 

[roversfan99]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Forgot completely about Davenport. After a decent end to last season he's had 3 players come in ahead of him (Buckley, Johnson, Holtby) 

Would personally suggest that either or both of him and Buckley should go out on loan in January and get some game time, get kicked about a bit and see how they cope.

[TonyM]

For me - a very good all round performance and a great result showing some real character and resilience towards the end.

A few observations...

Downing is a player of real ability - shame he isn't a few years younger, but still seems to have the legs to keep going. Excellent.

Holtby looked a bit  rough, but showed enough in a couple of touches and passes to see he is a very talented player. How he can be fitted in to the team will be the issue to solve for the next few weeks.

Gallagher played like a proper centre forward, real energy and strength  and won great headers -  but someone needs to be much closer to him to make his hard work pay. At the moment, Armstrong has obviously been told to stay out wide, and Dack is usually too far away to take advantage. That distance works with Graham, because he tends to chest down the long ball, control it and play it back/or lay it off, but Gallagher plays differently and flicks the ball on forwards or sideways with his head and too often no-one is there for him.

Evans worked hard, but tailed off and needed to be subbed. When Johnson came on, it was noticeable how much he was pointing, shouting and directing those around him which was really needed as Reading were coming back at us quite strongly then.. Should really be captain, if he had the legs to play in every game.

Travis didn't have a great game - worked hard, but seemed a bit reluctant to really drive forward for some reason, and played too many sideways/backwards passes, some of which went astray. He can be much better than yesterday.

Probably tempting fate, but for the first time in a very long time (years) I think we have the makings of a very promising & exciting team being put together.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[USABlue]

20 hours ago, Tugay's Right Foot said:

Travis abit below par today, loose passes. Thought Cunningham was playing within himself too. Evans decent but looking at him, first thought is usually passing backwards. Walton good save at the end, had to be inch perfect clutching that shot

Well yeah, dropped for no reason, prolly got in his head a bit, pressin himself a bit too much today instead if his natural game. Also had to play aside Crab.whi actually had a good game instead of Johnson.  Mowbary will screw up this lads game you watch. 

What a great win the boys in Blue and White left it all out there. Down on their haunches at the end, well done. Some fantastic game management at the end of the game, Reading could not get a kick for a while.  Pleased, Holtby looks good I thought.