Thomas Cook

[philipl]

Very real possibility they will go bust in the near future.

150,000 people will need repatriating.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/20/thomas-cook-in-talks-stave-off-collapse-biggest-peacetime-repatriation

Edited September 20, 2019 by philipl

[jim mk2]

Brexiteers won't like that Philip. 

[philipl]

https://www.ft.com/content/986c4e6e-db81-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17?emailId=5d8509b7310b75000461253a&segmentId=ce31c7f5-c2de-09db-abdc-f2fd624da608

Now begging for a State bail out.

And yes they blame Brexit amongst the reason for their ailments.

 

[den]

Got flights already booked and paid for for next year.

[philipl]

What are your rights?

If you are on a package holiday you are covered by the Air Travel Organiser's Licence scheme (ATOL).

The scheme will pay for your accommodation abroad, although you may have to move to a different hotel or apartment.

ATOL will also pay to have you brought home if the airline is no longer operating.

If you have holiday booked in the future you will also be refunded by the scheme.

If you have booked a flight-only deal you will need to apply to your travel insurance company or credit card and debit card provider to seek a refund.

When Monarch Airlines collapsed in 2017, the government organised to bring home all the stranded passengers, whether they were covered by ATOL or not.

[philipl]

I feel for everyone affected by this but I fear Thomas Cook are now in a death spiral.

Customers and potential customers are reacting to protect their interests.

As a result what was reported as a £200m hole that needed filling last night is probably a £500m hole this morning.

Businesses go bust very slowly then very quickly.

[matt83]

I reckon there’ll be some good deals to be had out of Thomas cooks impending demise. Holidays will be going at rock bottom prices. So if not particularly fussed whether go away the best case scenario is have a cheap holiday or a holiday couldn’t otherwise afford and on the worst case scenario is it’s cancelled or get stranded for a few days but you’re financially covered under the ATOL scheme.

Unfortunately I have shares in them think bought them at 29p now at 3p. ?.  Seems that after fosun bought them rbs said needed another £200,000,000 pronto which has goosed them. 

[Doug]

A group of 8 of us have flights to Tenerife in a fortnight booked with them.

We're holding an 'emergency meeting' in my local around 3pm today, (a few pints will be had to keep the vocal chords moist).

The likelihood is that we purchase alternative flights.

[philipl]

https://news.sky.com/story/thomas-cook-to-meet-creditors-in-final-bid-for-1631bn-rescue-11816496?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

Critical last gasp meeting currently under way.

I desperately hope Thomas Cook are saved but I am pessimistic.

All comes down to a Brexit equation. If creditors believe Brexit will happen, the £ dives and Thomas Cook's international non-£ liabilities increase proportionately.

This is a bet on/against Brexit now.

[den]

We have flights for the whole family booked and paid for totalling over two and a half thousand pounds. If they go bust we will be covered via credit card. What compounds it, is that we also have a villa booked that we could lose a deposit of over four hundred pounds on.

[Mike E]

Just hope people haven't spent the weekend screaming in anger at frontline TC employees who could be unemployed tomorrow

[philipl]

Getting reports that Thomas Cook talks failed and it will collapse 

[chaddyrovers]

Its has collasped now

[philipl]

Terribly sad to see such an old-established firm and great name go. Even more so for the 500,000 people whose holidays have been ripped apart (150,000 of them Brits)and the hundreds of thousands more whose future plans and money have been lost.

In steady state there was a rescue plan.

BUT 

The banks needed a Brexit contingency which represents a dead loss with zero commercial upside. Couldn't be done.

1) If we Brexit the economy shrinks irrespective or deal or no deal. Less disposable income means discretionary spend on holidays suffers far more proportionately.

2) The currency markets see the £ drop if Brexit seems more likely and £ rises if Brexit is less likely. Thomas Cook has expenses in other currencies and income disproportionately in £. So their foreign exchange loss exposure was horrible (as is true for all British companies exporting- Brexit has hit export industries particularly hard resulting in the little spotted balance of payments going horribly badly in the last three and a half years and hence the extreme susceptibility of the £ to Brexit news. If we Brexit, in addition to the economy tanking, a currency crisis is not far away and with that will be a further down rating of Government bonds and a run away increase in the cost of financing the National Debt.)

Brexit is bonkers and Thomas Cook is yet another casualty. 

[MarkBRFC]

12 hours ago, Mike E said:

Just hope people haven't spent the weekend screaming in anger at frontline TC employees who could be unemployed tomorrow

That's exactly what will have happened.

We are in the "me, me, me" era after all.

[philipl]

 

@MishaGlenny

·

This ZDF reports there are 140,000 German holiday makers affected by the #ThomasCook collapse, presumably in addition to all the Brits. There are few events which encapsulate the precipitous decline of Britain’s capacity to manage or govern its way out of a paper bag than this.

 

Quote Tweet

 

 

ZDF heute

 

Rund 140.000 Pauschalreisende sind mit deutschen Reiseveranstaltern von #ThomasCook unterwegs. Was bedeutet die Pleite des britischen Unternehmens für die Urlauber? ZDF-Reporter Stefan Schlösser vom Frankfurter Flughafen:

 

 

0:57

468 views

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by philipl

[philipl]

Thomas Cook Group employed approximately 21,000 staff worldwide, with 9,000 in the United Kingdom.

Tour operators[edit]

Tour Operator	Country	Logo	Joined the Group
Thomas Cook Tour Operations	United Kingdom	Sunny Heart	1841
Thomas Cook Germany	Germany	Sunny Heart	2001
Thomas Cook France	France	Sunny Heart	2001
Thomas Cook Netherlands	Netherlands	Sunny Heart	2001
Thomas Cook Belgium	Belgium	Sunny Heart	2001
Thomas Cook China	China	Sunny Heart	2016
Airtours	United Kingdom	Independent logo	2007 (former MyTravel Group Subsidiary)
Ving	Norway  Sweden	Sunny Heart	2007 (former MyTravel Group Subsidiary)
Tjareborg	Finland	Sunny Heart	2007 (former MyTravel Group Subsidiary)
Spies	Denmark	Sunny Heart	2007 (former MyTravel Group Subsidiary)
Neckermann	Poland  Hungary  Czech Republic	Sunny Heart	2001 for Poland and Hungary 2007 for Czech Republic
Neckermann Reisen	Austria  Switzerland	Sunny Heart	2001
Intourist	Russia	Independent and Sunny Heart	2011

Hotel chains include Cook's Club, Sunwing and Club 18-30

Aviation[edit]

The Thomas Cook Group's airline division operated as one operating segment, the Thomas Cook Group Airlines (TCGA).

Airlines[edit]

Main article: Thomas Cook Group Airlines

Airline	Country	Image	Joined the Group	Description
Thomas Cook Airlines UK	United Kingdom		2003	Thomas Cook Airlines was established in 2003 after being renamed from the former JMC Air. The airline operated an 'all Airbus fleet' operating the Airbus A321 and Airbus A330.
Thomas Cook Airlines Balearics	Spain		2017	Thomas Cook Airlines Balearics were established in 2017 after the acquisition of Thomas Cook Airlines Belgium to Lufthansa. The airline operated 6 Airbus A320-200 aircraft and operate in the United Kingdom and Germany.
Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia	Norway  Denmark  Sweden		2007	Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia, previously known as MyTravel Airways A/S until their parent's merger with Thomas Cook AG is a Scandinavian airline that operated flights from Denmark, Norway and Sweden to worldwide destinations. The airline operated the Airbus A321-200, Airbus A330-200 and Airbus A330-300.
Condor Flugdienst	Germany		2001	Condor Flugdienst is a German carrier who were established in 1956 being previously a fully owned subsidiary of Lufthansa operates a mixed fleet of both Boeing and Airbus aircraft. They operate their short/medium aircraft with the Boeing 757–300, Airbus A320-200 and Airbus A321-200 and their long haul fleet with the Boeing 767.
Thomas Cook Aviation	Germany		2018	In January 2018 AB Aviation GmbH received the approval for the Air Operator's Certificate (AOC). The company was later renamed to Thomas Cook Aviation (TCN). The Headquarters of Thomas Cook Aviation is based at Frankfurt Airport, directly next to the Condor Headquarters. Thomas Cook Aviation operates Airbus A321-200 from Düsseldorf and Leipzig for Condor.

[Husky]

21 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

That's exactly what will have happened.

We are in the "me, me, me" era after all.

I just don't see why people are complaining about being stuck on holiday in the sun with the Atol protection paying for the extra accommodation and eventual flight back. Crazy moaning times!

[den]

If you booked a flight only, you very likely don’t have ATOL protection.

[philipl]

3 hours ago, Husky said:

I just don't see why people are complaining about being stuck on holiday in the sun with the Atol protection paying for the extra accommodation and eventual flight back. Crazy moaning times!

And you come home when the rescue flight tells you to come home , not when you are booked to. For people due to come home today, they get a freebie extension because the rescue operation is not in full swing yet (assuming the hotel is being generous) but basically it is a matter of filling the rescue shuttle flights as they happen so if you get told your flight is at 3am tomorrow morning your choice is staying somewhere which may or may not be getting paid to host you and buying your own way home at the end of your holiday or getting on that 3am flight.

In Malta I helped shift the island away from inclusive tourism over a decade ago so unlike Greece, Cyprus and Turkey the damage is minimal. Thomas Cook tours and Airline accounted  for 0.03% of the travel industry. The two rescue flights are going at the time the Thomas Cook departures were planned for this week. Cook were not a year round operator in Malta so just five weeks of business is being lost and only one hotel is being hit hard.

[only2garners]

5 hours ago, den said:

If you booked a flight only, you very likely don’t have ATOL protection.

That's true Den, but the Government have confirmed that anyone currently away with a flight only deal will be brought back for free for the next two weeks at least.

Of course, it's a different matter for you and your bookings for next year. God knows whether it makes sense to be looking to rebook flights with another airline now or leave it a bit to see who picks up some of the slack.

[den]

1 hour ago, only2garners said:

That's true Den, but the Government have confirmed that anyone currently away with a flight only deal will be brought back for free for the next two weeks at least.

Of course, it's a different matter for you and your bookings for next year. God knows whether it makes sense to be looking to rebook flights with another airline now or leave it a bit to see who picks up some of the slack.

Well..... we’ve been in touch with the villa company and they have offered to refund us our deposit of €460 because of the circumstances - which is very kind. They’ve given us a couple days to decide.

Looking at replacement  Tui flights (the only company showing on skyscanner for our dates) the prices have gone up around 50% since yesterday. It seems to us that we should get the flights refunded because we booked direct with Thomas Cook on a credit card, - and while we can get the deposit for the villa back we should go that way. 

Anyone paying for flights via an agent and using a credit card might find it not so simple.

[only2garners]

I think fairly clearly the flights available now for next Summer are going to be expensive to get right now as everyone is scrambling to rebook. There must be a good chance that other airlines will look to expand into the market gap left by Thomas Cook so ther3 may well be better priced options later on if you’re brave. I guess what might make a difference is when and where you’re going. A popular flight route in high season will be harder than somewhere less popular in May.

[DE.]

1 hour ago, den said:

Well..... we’ve been in touch with the villa company and they have offered to refund us our deposit of €460 because of the circumstances - which is very kind. They’ve given us a couple days to decide.

Looking at replacement  Tui flights (the only company showing on skyscanner for our dates) the prices have gone up around 50% since yesterday. It seems to us that we should get the flights refunded because we booked direct with Thomas Cook on a credit card, - and while we can get the deposit for the villa back we should go that way. 

Anyone paying for flights via an agent and using a credit card might find it not so simple.

Probably best to get the refund unfortunately, I can't see prices dropping for a while yet. 

[Paul]

I am left wondering how great an impact continual consumer demand for low cost products, across every retail sector, has contributed to this failure.

In the UK we seem to know the price of everything and the value of nothing.