If Tony goes...

[Scotland1]

Thanks for adding Hughes by the way ?

[jim mk2]

33 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

What is it that you think is fundamentally broken? 

Absentee, distant, and disinterested owners?

Ewood "management" with no ability to hire and fire?

Manager seemingly in a job for as long as he wants it and under no pressure to achieve?

Apart from that, nothing is broken at all. 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by jim mk2

[JHRover]

4 hours ago, PeteJD13 said:

Yes they will he’s not bullet proof, he’ll get potted if we end up in the bottom 3, it will be like Coyle again. It will happen January time can’t see them doing anything before then 

I'm not so sure. I reckon Mowbray is more secure than anyone other than the snake Kean. The difference might be that Mowbray doesn't know it and probably fears the sack without realising that he's as safe as houses, whereas Kean knew full well he was bulletproof.

Crucially Mowbray has that link.to India and was there only a week or so ago. The other managers they sacked didn't. Bowyer did but then they refused to meet him which suggested something was amiss. If we look at how Lambert walked and it took them months to get rid of Coyle I just don't think for one minute Mowbray's position is even under any sort of scrutiny.

[McClarky]

I put Chris Hughton but there’s no chance of that in reality.  We do need a change though, Mowbray is a 2-3 year manager and his time here has run it’s course. Done a decent job but time to move on.

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Who is???

You mention this but dont name names. Why? 

Has Hughes ever worked without Mark Bowen? 

Coleman not for me after recommending Kean for a job here. 

O'Neil, Moyes, Di Matteo no for me. Di Matteo couldnt even get a job in Scotland. 

 

Fair point about Hughes/Bowen.

I've long wanted him back here i think he fits the club really well and in a similar way to when Mowbray came will be the right man at the right time.  However the caveat i have on that is i'd want all the original Tafia gang i think that is what is missing at Rovers a proper management team structure.

Not sure i'd want Hughes on his own having to work with some of who he inherits. 

[1864roverite]

One thing that hasn't been considered is Mowbray the type of man to walk knowing he cant progress any further?

He might be a proud man from the NE with morals but even he wont throw in the towel or could he?

[JacknOry]

Just now, 1864roverite said:

One thing that hasn't been considered is Mowbray the type of man to walk knowing he cant progress any further?

He might be a proud man from the NE with morals but even he wont throw in the towel or could he?

He did at Coventry.

[Bbrovers2288]

Just now, JacknOry said:

He did at Coventry.

Think the difference here though is that when mowbray leaves Ewood for the last time, he is walking out on football. I think this is his last job 

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

But maybe the funds have now been spent and in any case does the manager have the say as to how they are spent ? Additionally what sort of wage are Venkys prepared to commit to a manager and his team ?

As I have said before anyone anyone any good will have a choice as to where they work ( I suspect the likes of Hughton and Moyes are waiting on much better jobs than us ) and Venkys standing in the game is very poor - hence Lambert only coming to us with a get-out clause in his contract

I don't see them paying out what some managers will want. You probably looking either young manager, ones like Adkins or Pearson or overseas

3 hours ago, JeffRover said:

Gareth Ainsworth would be a good shout for many reasons in my opinion:

- Relatively Young, hungry and desperate to succeed

- Has 380 games in management at unfashionable clubs, with a win rate of above 40%

- Has a promotion on his CV

- Is currently flying high in League One, not many places below us in the pyramid after spending no money and gets the most possible out of his resources

- A Blackburn lad and Rovers fan. He would be willing to come here.

Brentford took Dean Smith from Walsall so I don't know why this couldn't work also.

great points there

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

 

I'd rather we looked at people like McCarthy or Michael O'Neill or went abroad. Big thing for me is it needs a new management team not just manager. Expecting a new manager to work with existing staff just to avoid making changes is only going to end one way.

either of those will come here. Same with Pulis. 

Looking into the foreign market is a good shout

 

52 minutes ago, arbitro said:

We have been a ticking time bomb since the summer with Mowbrays reluctance to bring in the type of defenders that we have lacked in his tenure. We were always going to be an injury or two away from becoming a poor team. 

Also I think a lot of the players are simply not able to deliver the quick passing game that Mowbray craves. His excuse this week of having a few different styles of play was frankly nonsense or even if we do we are inept at most of them. It's completely different doing drills on the training pitch to carrying it out in an intense Championship match.

My personal feeling is that Mowbray has over complicated things and expects players to do something that is quite alien to most of them. I sincerely hope I'm wrong but the writing is on the wall and if the warning signs are ignored we could well be relegated.

Mowbray 1st priorities signings were an experience keeper and centre back. If we have signed someone like Pantilomon and Jansson we would have been better. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Fair point about Hughes/Bowen.

I've long wanted him back here i think he fits the club really well and in a similar way to when Mowbray came will be the right man at the right time.  However the caveat i have on that is i'd want all the original Tafia gang i think that is what is missing at Rovers a proper management team structure.

Not sure i'd want Hughes on his own having to work with some of who he inherits. 

Hughes coaching staff are all in jobs. some he would have to rebuild his atff

6 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

He did at Coventry.

depend on this chamnting coming from fans at R

[MCMC1875]

3 hours ago, JeffRover said:

Gareth Ainsworth would be a good shout for many reasons in my opinion:

- Relatively Young, hungry and desperate to succeed

- Has 380 games in management at unfashionable clubs, with a win rate of above 40%

- Has a promotion on his CV

- Is currently flying high in League One, not many places below us in the pyramid after spending no money and gets the most possible out of his resources

- A Blackburn lad and Rovers fan. He would be willing to come here.

Brentford took Dean Smith from Walsall so I don't know why this couldn't work also.

@J*B Can you add Gareth Ainsworth.

[DE.]

44 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

He did at Coventry.

I imagine he was being paid a lot less at Coventry. A much lower profile position with no money to play with and a very limited chance of serious progression. Much easier to walk away from that than walk away from this, imo.

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

Not sure, but the fact we haven't come from behind to beat an opponent in the Championship since October 2014 is absolutely damning. Similarly I believe we haven't come from behind to win in any league match in something like two years - last time was during the L1 campaign. 

We have a topic on here talking about character because it's so obvious we have none, and I think that's been the case for a lot longer than just Mowbray's tenure. It's been pretty much a staple of the club since Venky's arrived and put Steve Kean in charge. Whatever is broken may not be fixable - it may just be that the owners' apathy and neglect trickles through the entire club and has a knock on effect which can sometimes be stifled but never completely erased. If so then we can swap managers over and over and the result will ultimately be the same. We have to hope that isn't the case though - as Venky's don't appear to be going anywhere - so instead we can only rely on finding a massive overachiever with enough determination and courage to overpower the curse the owners have put on the club. Would be some luck finding that guy though, especially with our so called "board" leading the search, and chances are that person's characteristics would cause another Lambert-like departure when they realised the scale of the mountain they would need to climb to achieve anything worthwhile here.

Really interesting point. Thank you.

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What line of work are you in Paul ? I used to work in engineering. Not a massive place, about 100 employees. The Managing Director was a dick but he was there every day and knew everything about everybody in the place. He'd know what you had for your tea last night when you'd forgotten ! 

If he'd have been an absentee owner the place would have kept going no problem but the productivity would have took a hit. By how much would depend on how motivated the foremen were. A good foreman would have a better effect than a bad one. It'd still be a up hill struggle no matter who was supposed to be trying to run the show.The fitters would still be performing but the welders would be taking the piss. The self motivated guys would be doing their best but the skivers would be picking their horses in the toilets for an hour a day. After a while the grafters would say to themselves - " What's the point, when nobody else cares ? ". Then they get brought down to the lazy guys level.

That's what you've got at Rovers, no hands on direction from the top. Managers have come and gone, players have come and gone. The malaise at the club has been there ever since they fired Big Sam, appointed The Snake, and decided to leave things in his hands.

" A fish rots from the head ".

I like the analogy and you can see where that sits right mate. I’m actually in the services industry, though my company deals a lot with engineering companies. 
 

Im not sure it runs so deep at Rovers. From what I understand, there’s a good vibe about the place. I hope Tony and the team pull it round. I just knew he’d placed a target on his head the minute he mentioned promotion. Charges the owners and the fans up when he doesn’t have a top 6 budget. Plus, if he wanted to sneak in there like a Preston etc then it would’ve been better to keep quiet and ‘over achieve’. 
Thanks for the post mate.

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

We have been a ticking time bomb since the summer with Mowbrays reluctance to bring in the type of defenders that we have lacked in his tenure. We were always going to be an injury or two away from becoming a poor team. 

Also I think a lot of the players are simply not able to deliver the quick passing game that Mowbray craves. His excuse this week of having a few different styles of play was frankly nonsense or even if we do we are inept at most of them. It's completely different doing drills on the training pitch to carrying it out in an intense Championship match.

My personal feeling is that Mowbray has over complicated things and expects players to do something that is quite alien to most of them. I sincerely hope I'm wrong but the writing is on the wall and if the warning signs are ignored we could well be relegated.

I agree with your point re the writing on the wall. Though I still think we can rescue this season, even after Preston batter us on Saturday (I’m in no doubts).

But I don’t think we’ll be relegated. I can’t see Mowbray being sacked until the summer.

[darrenrover]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

Not sure, but the fact we haven't come from behind to beat an opponent in the Championship since October 2014 is absolutely damning. Similarly I believe we haven't come from behind to win in any league match in something like two years - last time was during the L1 campaign. 

We have a topic on here talking about character because it's so obvious we have none, and I think that's been the case for a lot longer than just Mowbray's tenure. It's been pretty much a staple of the club since Venky's arrived and put Steve Kean in charge. Whatever is broken may not be fixable - it may just be that the owners' apathy and neglect trickles through the entire club and has a knock on effect which can sometimes be stifled but never completely erased. If so then we can swap managers over and over and the result will ultimately be the same. We have to hope that isn't the case though - as Venky's don't appear to be going anywhere - so instead we can only rely on finding a massive overachiever with enough determination and courage to overpower the curse the owners have put on the club. Would be some luck finding that guy though, especially with our so called "board" leading the search, and chances are that person's characteristics would cause another Lambert-like departure when they realised the scale of the mountain they would need to climb to achieve anything worthwhile here.

I think both yourself and Tyrone are spot on with your analogy and industry comparisons. Football is no different than any other business in so much that leadership starts at the top: it's no good being an absentee landlord unless you wholeheartedly empower those at the helm to make all of the decisions within an agreed budget.

The set up at Rovers is ludicrous: who's ever heard anywhere else that a manager 'recommends' a couple of 'mates' for positions that sit above themselves in the hierarchy, neither with real credentials, and they are both appointed at Director level. 

Until Venkys realise that the club needs to be run properly and the executive truly empowered, we will go nowhere other than down.

For the record, I'd get rid of Mowbray, he's been generally dire in every respect, and would have done earlier in the year but in the great scheme of things it would change little IMO.

Venkys can't be faulted for their financial backing in the past couple of years but in terms of general stewardship and custodians of the club, they're almost as shit as ever.

[davulsukur]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I like the analogy and you can see where that sits right mate. I’m actually in the services industry, though my company deals a lot with engineering companies. 
 

Im not sure it runs so deep at Rovers. From what I understand, there’s a good vibe about the place. I hope Tony and the team pull it round. I just knew he’d placed a target on his head the minute he mentioned promotion. Charges the owners and the fans up when he doesn’t have a top 6 budget. Plus, if he wanted to sneak in there like a Preston etc then it would’ve been better to keep quiet and ‘over achieve’. 
Thanks for the post mate.

That's a good point about Mowbray mentioning promotion. Even sky, in one of the recent games mentioned that Mowbray has said he wants us pushing for the top 6, they even mentioned a 70 points target he's aiming for. 

He's built the expectation levels up for the fans and now we are crashing down to earth.

As you say, might have served him better to stay quiet and punch above our weight. Maybe the players are feeling the pressure over these expected targets?

Unsure, but it's all going spectacularly wrong at the moment.

[Mattyblue]

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I agree with your point re the writing on the wall. Though I still think we can rescue this season, even after Preston batter us on Saturday (I’m in no doubts).

But I don’t think we’ll be relegated. I can’t see Mowbray being sacked until the summer.

Now or the summer it’ll be a nice pay off either way with the contract he signed last season running until 2022.

[47er]

I've voted for Mark Hughes but knowing there is absolutely no possibility that will happen. Heart of hearts we all expect Damien to get it don't we?

Hughton is a good shout though.

[JacknOry]

5 hours ago, DE. said:

I imagine he was being paid a lot less at Coventry. A much lower profile position with no money to play with and a very limited chance of serious progression. Much easier to walk away from that than walk away from this, imo.

I was merely answering a question as to wheter Mowbray has walked before. 

That said,  he left Coventry bottom of league 1 with something like no win in 10 (later admitting he wished he bought the CB they needed ?). In the 3.5 years since he left Coventry are now 4th in that league and have an outside chance of leapfrogging us. 

Think that says it all.  Budgets dont always mean a lot down there or in our dicision either... It comes down to the manager and coaching staff alot of the time. 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by JacknOry

[DeeCee]

Can you add Sam to the poll?

[Wegerleswiggle]

Here's a list of Pearson's last signings for Leicester.

Pretty sure he wouldn't spunk £12m on 2 below standard strikers.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

11 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I agree with your point re the writing on the wall. Though I still think we can rescue this season, even after Preston batter us on Saturday (I’m in no doubts).

But I don’t think we’ll be relegated. I can’t see Mowbray being sacked until the summer.

"Avoiding relegation" isn't acceptable and a reason for keeping him though is it?

What have you seen on the pitch and what are your reasons that make you think we can turn the season round?

[RevidgeBlue]

19 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I don’t think we need, or can afford wholesale changes. The first XI is good enough to challenge for the top 6 imo. The problem lies in the managers seeming inability to find the formula and his best team. The failure to adequately improve the defence is also coming back to bite him as are the impotent performances of Gally and Brereton. 
 

Either way, if this or the next manager can re-invigor the team, improve the defence and get the best out of Gally and Brereton then we won’t be far off.

So apart from the fact the defence and attack aren't good enough "we're not far off" ?

Wouldn't like to see us if we were!

[Mashed Potatoes]

3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

"Avoiding relegation" isn't acceptable and a reason for keeping him though is it?

What have you seen on the pitch and what are your reasons that make you think we can turn the season round?

I think the point that is being made is that there is a significant risk of a disastrous new appointment which would make relegation far more likely - perhaps probable - and in the circumstances sticking for the rest of the season with a man who some of us believe won't get the club relegated is the right course of action