match thread Birmingham (A) [The one we've all seemingly forgotten about]

[OJRovers]

Mentioned it on the other thread, but I think this new player analysis technology they have this season is causing Mowbray to overthink it. The players have probably had enough of not knowing what the hell they are meant to be doing game after game.

[Guest]

In 13 games Blackburn have managed 168 shots.

74 Off Target
44 On Target
50 Blocked
That's just 26.1% of shots on target. It's diabolical.

Compared to 34.1% in 2018/19. We've literally regressed.

Edited October 23, 2019 by JoeH

[Guest]

We've had a 5% decrease in our shooting abilities desipte signing a new £5m striker. Our possession this season has averaged 51.2%, last season it was 53.1%. Our "expected goals per game" has stagnated and sits exactly where it did last season at 1.2.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Butty said:

He’s been tweeting all season at his dismay of his brother losing his place in the squad, he even said he’d start him over Travis. Idiot. 

Thing is though, since we took Smallwood away from the 11, and often the 18, we look spineless. There's nowhere near as much fight in this current team than last year.

Seniors like Graham, Evans and Smallwood have massive influence in the dressing room, and those three have been absolutely shunted out, and in certain cases we all praised it (minus DG). But maybe treating the senior players like that, without moving them onto other clubs or offering more game time - is having a poor effect on the dressing room.

[m1st]

8 hours ago, davulsukur said:

Have we ever played well for the full 90 under Mowbray?

Pretty sure in league one we still only had 1 good half in a game.

I'm reading this thread from start to finish on Wednesday morning - and a sobering read it is, too.

It seems to be morphing into the one about TM's future at our club which, in emails to a former schoolmate of mine who lives in New Zealand and has always supported "the b'stards in claret & blue", I always call "Lancashire's Most Historic Club".

So I'll say this here while my anger/disappointment at last night's result is still fresh. 

I used to say that TM was "a 2nd half manager" because we seemed to play much better in the 2nd half of games, especially in League One.

It took a long time for me to realise that, although that may have been true, the proper way to look at it is to say that he's "yesterday's man-ager." (Did you see what I did there?!?) He was - often only marginally - improving in the 2nd half of games the situation that his team selection & tactics for the 1st half had brought about.

I agree that his time as manager is up - football management seems these days to be a younger man's game.

Here I draw an analogy with Rochdale. A sequence of poor results about 2/3  through last season leading to the prospect of relegation - and a new Chairman of the Board - led to Keith Hill being sacked, despite him being the man who got them back to League One and kept them there. As an interim measure, he was replaced by a young Irish member of his backroom squad in Brian Barry-Murphy, aka BBM.

Despite 'Dale being the nearest League club to my home, I rarely go to their games so I have to look at the statistics, and reports in the local paper. Somehow BBM kept them up, apparently playing a more attractive style and that seems to have carried on into this season.

BBM has a pedigree in sporting management - his Dad was a celebrated Captain, then Manager, of Cork's Gaelic Games teams - which I don't know if Damian Johnson has; but for me, where my analogy falls down is in the Boardroom.

Without someone willing to take what to many people locally saw as a surprising decision by sacking a manager who had brought 'Dale some of the most successful times in their history - not that TM could claim that accolade - they could have dropped back into League Two.

Do Rovers have anybody in power with the balls to do that while there's still a transfer window between now and the end of the season? I don't know, but I hope there is.

 

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

In 13 games Blackburn have managed 168 shots.

74 Off Target
44 On Target
50 Blocked
That's just 26.1% of shots on target. It's diabolical.

Compared to 34.1% in 2018/19. We've literally regressed.

No surprise when you consider one of only two players who scored regularly for us from open play last season has been benched for a gangly-limbed bloke wearing an alice-band and/or Adam Armstrong. Meanwhile the player we relied on for set-piece goals (10 last season) was gift-wrapped to Wigan without being replaced.

[arbitro]

I was angry at many aspects of the game last night but what pissed me off more than anything was the number of people who clapped the players at the end of the game. I looked around and it wasn't the odd one, there were lots.

Mowbray scuttled off down the tunnel.

[den9112]

Just now, arbitro said:

I was angry at many aspects of the game last night but what pissed me off more than anything was the number of people who clapped the players at the end of the game. I looked around and it wasn't the odd one, there were lots.

Mowbray scuttled off down the tunnel.

Second time this season away from home that i have not clapped them for their effort ,last night and QPR ...

[Mattyblue]

Just now, arbitro said:

I was angry at many aspects of the game last night but what pissed me off more than anything was the number of people who clapped the players at the end of the game. I looked around and it wasn't the odd one, there were lots.

Mowbray scuttled off down the tunnel.

As I’ve said before, relegation was the best thing that could’ve happened to Mowbray.

We are now plucky little Rovers, forever ‘in transition’ in a higher league. Even though we had a Championship budget that blew everyone out the water in League 1.

If we’d had stayed up at Brentford and trundled around in 15th to 20th since he’d have lost the fans long ago, instead there’s barely a murmur.

[martonrover]

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

As I’ve said before, relegation was the best thing that could’ve happened to Mowbray.

We are now plucky little Rovers, forever ‘in transition’ in a higher league. Even though we had a Championship budget that blew everyone out the water in League 1.

If we’d had stayed up at Brentford and trundled around in 15th to 20th since he’d have lost the fans long ago, instead there’s barely a murmur.

,,,,,,,,until now. The tide has clearly turned and people are waking up.

[JHRover]

7 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

As I’ve said before, relegation was the best thing that could’ve happened to Mowbray.

We are now plucky little Rovers, forever ‘in transition’ in a higher league. Even though we had a Championship budget that blew everyone out the water in League 1.

If we’d had stayed up at Brentford and trundled around in 15th to 20th since he’d have lost the fans long ago, instead there’s barely a murmur.

If we'd survived at Brentford I'd wager Paul Senior wouldn't have quit as Director of Football. He would have been involved in recruitment and possibly got his feet under the table with the owners whilst Mowbray's power would have been shared or restricted.

Bizarrely relegation spelled the end for Senior and the short lived Director of Football and saw Mowbray concentrate all power in his hands.

Not healthy for a professional club.

[OldEwoodBlue]

During the 4 games in October (360 minutes / 6 HOURS OF FOOTBALL) we have had 9 shots on target.

4 were against Forest so only 5 shots on target in the last 3 matches.

 

So contrary to what Mowbray says, the situation is actually getting worse.

AND - Obviously the holiday worked out well didn't it.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, Alejandro Tapia said:

Ofcurse I will also you can find me on my FB as Alejandro Tapia Reyes and I can help you with you practice pal...i became a Rovers thanks to the great  campaign in 2001 ...I had 11 years and I started to watch british football thanks to a victory against Tottenham I started to follow my Rovers and I'm a proud Rover since then.

Cheers pal! 

I'm dabbling with learning Spanish also. I'm not very good. Buenos Dias Alejandro.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

54 minutes ago, m1st said:

I'm reading this thread from start to finish on Wednesday morning - and a sobering read it is, too.

It seems to be morphing into the one about TM's future at our club which, in emails to a former schoolmate of mine who lives in New Zealand and has always supported "the b'stards in claret & blue", I always call "Lancashire's Most Historic Club".

So I'll say this here while my anger/disappointment at last night's result is still fresh. 

I used to say that TM was "a 2nd half manager" because we seemed to play much better in the 2nd half of games, especially in League One.

It took a long time for me to realise that, although that may have been true, the proper way to look at it is to say that he's "yesterday's man-ager." (Did you see what I did there?!?) He was - often only marginally - improving in the 2nd half of games the situation that his team selection & tactics for the 1st half had brought about.

I agree that his time as manager is up - football management seems these days to be a younger man's game.

Here I draw an analogy with Rochdale. A sequence of poor results about 2/3  through last season leading to the prospect of relegation - and a new Chairman of the Board - led to Keith Hill being sacked, despite him being the man who got them back to League One and kept them there. As an interim measure, he was replaced by a young Irish member of his backroom squad in Brian Barry-Murphy, aka BBM.

Despite 'Dale being the nearest League club to my home, I rarely go to their games so I have to look at the statistics, and reports in the local paper. Somehow BBM kept them up, apparently playing a more attractive style and that seems to have carried on into this season.

BBM has a pedigree in sporting management - his Dad was a celebrated Captain, then Manager, of Cork's Gaelic Games teams - which I don't know if Damian Johnson has; but for me, where my analogy falls down is in the Boardroom.

Without someone willing to take what to many people locally saw as a surprising decision by sacking a manager who had brought 'Dale some of the most successful times in their history - not that TM could claim that accolade - they could have dropped back into League Two.

Do Rovers have anybody in power with the balls to do that while there's still a transfer window between now and the end of the season? I don't know, but I hope there is.

 

I live in Rochdale m1st and what happened with Keith Hill is the same as what's happening with Mowbray at Rovers. Dull football, weird formations, some dodgy signings, players being played out of position all the time, Henderson, who's their Rhodes being played in midfield,  talking bollocks to the local press etc. I don't think Hill is a bad manager but he'd got complacent at Rochdale and thought he was unsackable. Basically he'd been there too long. He will probably do ok at Bolton. They'll go down almost certainly but he'll get them back up next time.

The difference is they had a board that could see the writing on the wall and binned him before it was too late. Appointing Barry Murphy was a brave move but it's paid off for them.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Parsonblue]

Sitting at Birmingham last night was a truly depressing experience.  More of the so called "possession" football getting us absolutely nowhere.  In the first half Birmingham were just so much quicker than us, so much brighter in ideas and so much sharper around the penalty area.  I thought Dan Crowley and Fran Villalba were outstanding and ran the game in that half - small, quick players who epitomised what Mowbray wants - the ability to pass and move at speed.  They made our plodders look what they are - distinctly average.  Johnson looks like another version of Danny Murphy - a talented player, but one whose best days are far behind him as he simply couldn't get near the speedy players in Brum's midfield.  The sad thing is that Birmingham are bang average and at times we simply couldn't live with them. 

As for the attack, one of the main points of discussion amongst my mates last night was about who was worst - Gallagher or Brereton ( I think the answer we came to was that you could put both together and you wouldn't have a decent player!).  

If the manager is to retain the backing of the support then things have to change and change soon.  Talk of this squad challenging for the top six is complete nonsense - I thought we were a mid-table outfit before the season began but I'm starting to think I might have been a tad optimistic.  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

Sitting at Birmingham last night was a truly depressing experience.  More of the so called "possession" football getting us absolutely nowhere.  In the first half Birmingham were just so much quicker than us, so much brighter in ideas and so much sharper around the penalty area.  I thought Dan Crowley and Fran Villalba were outstanding and ran the game in that half - small, quick players who epitomised what Mowbray wants - the ability to pass and move at speed.  They made our plodders look what they are - distinctly average.  Johnson looks like another version of Danny Murphy - a talented player, but one whose best days are far behind him as he simply couldn't get near the speedy players in Brum's midfield.  The sad thing is that Birmingham are bang average and at times we simply couldn't live with them. 

As for the attack, one of the main points of discussion amongst my mates last night was about who was worst - Gallagher or Brereton ( I think the answer we came to was that you could put both together and you wouldn't have a decent player!).  

If the manager is to retain the backing of the support then things have to change and change soon.  Talk of this squad challenging for the top six is complete nonsense - I thought we were a mid-table outfit before the season began but I'm starting to think I might have been a tad optimistic.  

Walking football will get you relegated in this league.

[Parsonblue]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Walking football will get you relegated in this league.

To be honest Tyrone it's very noticeable just how much quicker even average sides are compared with the way we play.  In recent weeks QPR, Huddersfield and now Birmingham have looked yards quicker all around the pitch.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

49 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

To be honest Tyrone it's very noticeable just how much quicker even average sides are compared with the way we play.  In recent weeks QPR, Huddersfield and now Birmingham have looked yards quicker all around the pitch.

This " possession " football is killing us Parson. We don't appear to be good enough to pass and run accurately so we pass and walk. We're taking the ball stood still most of the time when our opponents are on the move, even then we need a couple of touches before we pass the ball. It's so easy to play against.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Kamy100]

I never expected us to be a top 6 side.  I felt that we would be comfortably mid-table, however the way we are playing both defensively and also going forward we could easily be sucked into a relegation battle.

This new style of play that Mowbray has put into place is not working mainly because if you want to play a possession game then you have to push up and press the opposition so that you can dominate the ball and get possession in dangerous areas, instead we are not pressing (and don't have the players to play that sort of game) and are left passing the ball backwards and sideways in areas that pose no danger to the opposition.  The tempo that we play is so slow that it allows teams to easily deal with whatever we are trying to do.

Tony needs to get back to basics or he is going to find that we are will be in a relegation battle and as we all know once you get dragged down there it is very hard to breakaway.  Those hoping that Mowbray will get sacked, he won't be getting sacked anytime soon because the likes of Waggott and Venus would never recommend his removal, the owners may decide to take action themselves if we are in serious danger of getting relegated. 

[Parsonblue]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

This " possession " football is killing us Parson. We don't appear to be good enough to pass and run accurately so we pass and walk. We're taking the ball stood still most of the time when are opponents are on the move, even then we need a couple of touches before we pass the ball. It's so easy to play against.

Couldn't agree more Tyrone.  It's becoming embarrassing watching how slow we are compared to even the most average opposition.  The two Birmingham players I mentioned in an earlier post were streets ahead of any of our players in terms of quick, one touch pass and move football.  Possession football is all well and good but there has to be an end product and I'm not sure these players are capable of producing that end product.  Last night felt like we were back in the Coyle era when you turned up at grounds fully expecting to be beat before you even kicked off.

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

This " possession " football is killing us Parson. We don't appear to be good enough to pass and run accurately so we pass and walk. We're taking the ball stood still most of the time when are opponents are on the move, even then we need a couple of touches before we pass the ball. It's so easy to play against.

Good analysis - we appear to have bought in to a fashionable concept with "possession football" without having the players to execute it. We need to approach games with a higher tempo

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

Couldn't agree more Tyrone.  It's becoming embarrassing watching how slow we are compared to even the most average opposition.  The two Birmingham players I mentioned in an earlier post were streets ahead of any of our players in terms of quick, one touch pass and move football.  Possession football is all well and good but there has to be an end product and I'm not sure these players are capable of producing that end product.  Last night felt like we were back in the Coyle era when you turned up at grounds fully expecting to be beat before you even kicked off.

 

I'm not against keeping the ball but the passing has got to be quick and snappy. Most importantly the movement off the ball has got to be top class. All the team have to buy into wanting the ball at all times and making it easy for the bloke in possession to have several options. Basically we've got to be prepared to run a lot more and I doubt ether we've got that degree of desire or athleticism.

[Leyland-Rover]

Food for thought - I read in an interview with Rich Sharp and TM, that some of injuries we are sustaining at the moment are from players breaking down due to being worked hard in training.

I didn't watch the game last night, but did they look knackered?

I'm clutching at straws as to why we are so bad at the moment. Are the lads legs just dead?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Leyland-Rover said:

Food for thought - I read in an interview with Rich Sharp and TM, that some of injuries we are sustaining at the moment are from players breaking down due to being worked hard in training.

I didn't watch the game last night, but did they look knackered?

I'm clutching at straws as to why we are so bad at the moment. Are the lads legs just dead?

How hard were they being worked during the international break ? Maybe some of them are still suffering from jet lag ?

I don't expect scintillating football, long winning runs, promotion, banging the opposition etc,  I just want a set of lads I can be proud of. A set of lads who give their all every week. Lads who respect the shirt, the club and the fans. Lads who's shirts you can wring the sweat out of at the end of the game. Some of the current lot could wear the same shirt every week because it doesn't get dirty !

I've seen teams in the past that weren't full of star players and they got beat sometimes. Now and again you had the odd player who didn't appear to be busting a gut but I never thought to question the desire of the whole team to play for the club like I do now.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Mercer]

Just now, Leyland-Rover said:

Food for thought - I read in an interview with Rich Sharp and TM, that some of injuries we are sustaining at the moment are from players breaking down due to being worked hard in training.

I didn't watch the game last night, but did they look knackered?

I'm clutching at straws as to why we are so bad at the moment. Are the lads legs just dead?

The 'heavy' fitness work should be done pre season and once the season kicks off, fitness should be about keeping the engine running.

I've been saying for years that generally, I feel we are not physically and mentally fit and other teams seem to be both 2 yards quicker all over the field and are able to keep it going for 90 minutes plus.

What we are seeing, IMO, is all down to the dumbing down of our club from top to bottom and our once decent  sports science / medical department is no longer up to speed and hence the fitness issues (sharpness and stamina) and constant occurrence / recurrence  of injuries.