match thread Birmingham (A) [The one we've all seemingly forgotten about]

[Hasta]

Just watched the goal again. I know he's not a full back, and certainly not a left full back, but what is Bennet doing.

He tucks in when there is no danger infront of him, and leaves one guy behind him and lets another one run right around him.  

He's not helped by Stuart Downing, who clearly looks right at the goalscorer all alone charging into the box but makes no effort whatsoever to help out.

It's simply dreadful. 

[m1st]

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

I have a question, devils advocate here, my view is TM should go. BUT, somehow, some way, we beat Preston 3-0 on Saturday... does it change? Is it the results, or is it more than that? I only ask because I don't know how I'd feel about it if we did win, I'm very undecided in that sense.

But, Joe; 'if' is a very big word.

Specially when leading into that scenario.

Were it to happen, it would have to the start of a much improved set of results which, to be honest, can't be expected from the current set-up.

[den]

Thinking about Parsons question about which is the better of Brereton and Gallagher, the only talent I can see from either is that Gallagher can jump higher. He can’t head it very well at all, but he’s taller.

dont see anything else.

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by den

[Leonard Venkhater]

 

 

 

 

2

Just now, m1st said:

But, Joe; 'if' is a very big word.

Specially when leading into that scenario.

Were it to happen, it would have to the start of a much improved set of results which, to be honest, can't be expected from the current set-up.

Rudyard Rovers, we are here...

If you can tinker -and make tinkering your aim;

If you can meet with disaster and disaster,

Yet your tactics remain the same....

[danger19_80]

Just now, den said:

Thinking about Parsons question about which is the better of Brereton and Gallagher, the only talent I can see from either is that Gallagher can jump higher. He can’t head it very well at all, but he’s taller.

dont see anything else.

 

Gallagher was good here on loan so he obviously has something he's not showing atm. Can Mowbray bring that out of him and more? Not looking good.

Edited October 23, 2019 by danger19_80

[Hasta]

Just now, den said:

Thinking about Parsons question about which is the better of Brereton and Gallagher, the only talent I can see from either is that Gallagher can jump higher. He can’t head it very well at all, but he’s taller.

dont see anything else.

 

Gallagher looked a yard sharper and more mobile last time around. If he was in his 30's you'd say he now looks 2 years older.  He just looks to me like a player who will ultimately have a regressive profile to his career. (see Danny Cadamarteri, Bradley Allen etc...)

The worrying thing is I actually believe the answer to question Gallagher or Brereton may well be Samuel. And that speaks volumes !!

[Dolly blue]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

Rudyard Rovers, we are here...

If you can tinker -and make tinkering your aim;

If you can meet with disaster and disaster,

Yet your tactics remain the same....

Love it LV.....Just a little addition

 

If you can sign a fullback 

Who’s better than Bennett or Bell

You’ll amaze us all, dear Tony

As we walk the road to hell 

 

If you or your mate Waggott

Can get folk through the door 

Before you take us back 

To where we were before

 

League 1 now beckons 

Our championship days are run

But you can save our season 

By leaving us, my son

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Dolly blue said:

Love it LV.....Just a little addition

 

If you can sign a fullback 

Who’s better than Bennett or Bell

You’ll amaze us all, dear Tony

As we walk the road to hell 

 

If you or your mate Waggott

Can get folk through the door 

Before you take us back 

To where we were before

 

League 1 now beckons 

Our championship days are run

But you can save our season 

By leaving us, my son

 

Excellent, DB. You are wasted on here!..

Next, the blue and white man's burden....

Edited October 23, 2019 by Leonard Venkhater

[bigbrandjohn]

3 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

I dispute this. I don't think either Gallagher or Brereton played well for other clubs. Gallagher had a decent spell for us but average/poor elsewhere. Brereton has been totally average/poor at Forest.

And apparently for England?

[bigbrandjohn]

I would for defenders. But I would choose them for him?

[LDRover]

Just now, Dolly blue said:

Love it LV.....Just a little addition

 

If you can sign a fullback 

Who’s better than Bennett or Bell

You’ll amaze us all, dear Tony

As we walk the road to hell 

 

If you or your mate Waggott

Can get folk through the door 

Before you take us back 

To where we were before

 

League 1 now beckons 

Our championship days are run

But you can save our season 

By leaving us, my son

 

Gold!!!

[Stuart]

10 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

As I’ve said before, relegation was the best thing that could’ve happened to Mowbray.

We are now plucky little Rovers, forever ‘in transition’ in a higher league. Even though we had a Championship budget that blew everyone out the water in League 1.

If we’d had stayed up at Brentford and trundled around in 15th to 20th since he’d have lost the fans long ago, instead there’s barely a murmur.

I feel that Mowbray has turned us into this.

A small time mentality that he is bringing to the club that Jack did everything in his power to remove. Managing Boro and Celtic must have gone to his head.

We are a town club but we are not a small-town, small-time one.

Players never “ready” to play, the club “only just a year out of League One”, “building slowly”. He is a dinosaur of old school football with its “grand old” clubs like Newcastle and Arsenal. Imagine if he ever took us up? We’d be mullered every week - and that’s just by the mighty Watfords and Brightons. I daren’t even contemplate a derby with that lot!

[Stuart]

35 minutes ago, Dolly blue said:

Love it LV.....Just a little addition

 

If you can sign a fullback 

Who’s better than Bennett or Bell

You’ll amaze us all, dear Tony

As we walk the road to hell 

 

If you or your mate Waggott

Can get folk through the door 

Before you take us back 

To where we were before

 

League 1 now beckons 

Our championship days are run

But you can save our season 

By leaving us, my son

 

Brilliant! 

[JHRover]

Just now, Stuart said:

I feel that Mowbray has turned us into this.

A small time mentality that he is bringing to the club that Jack did everything in his power to remove. Managing Boro and Celtic must have gone to his head.

We are a town club but we are not a small-town, small-time one.

Players never “ready” to play, the club “only just a year out of League One”, “building slowly”. He is a dinosaur of old school football with its “grand old” clubs like Newcastle and Arsenal. Imagine if he ever took us up? We’d be mullered every week - and that’s just by the mighty Watfords and Brightons. I daren’t even contemplate a derby with that lot!

Mowbray thinks it is appropriate for the manager of Blackburn Rovers to go to the press and label Stoke and Middlesbrough 'huge clubs'. Comments like that destroy credibility and respect almost as much as inept management.

[tomphil]

Gallagher is a workhorse front man so he should be used as such as if you aren't whipping balls into the box in front of him then what is the point ?  He's nowhere near savvy enough for the role of loan target man yet and may never be and he isn't a poacher so use his strengths not try and get something out of his weaknesses.

In a two dragging defenders about and pushing on defending from the front, the kind of thing Rhodes couldn't do and got slagged for. Or if he has Dack or Armstrong behind him then spearheading attack he needs to be chasing balls into the channels, again dragging the defence about. Utilise his workrate because he's very little else.

Otherwise he needs to be a right sided striker in a front 3 where you still need someone like Graham to hold the centre forward position. If you need a target man then buy one, if you need a poacher then buy one Mowbray you dick !

This is another player he's about to ruin...

Edited October 23, 2019 by tomphil

[bluebruce]

9 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Walking football will get you relegated in this league.

It absolutely isn't helping. This is one of our most serious problems at the moment (and we have a few), we seem to think that keeping possession is more important than anything else, but have no idea what to do with it.

This season, we have had more possession than the opposition in 12 games out of 15.

We have had 60 percent possession or more in 6 games. These were Charlton (L), Oldham (W, cup), Cardiff (D 0-0), Luton (L), Forest (D), Hudds (D). The only win when we 'control' the game so much being when we had 73% possession against League Two Oldham and only scraped victory from defeat in injury time. We let them have 12 shots with only 27% possession, only managing 3 more than that ourselves. We had 67% possession against crappy Luton and yet hit the target twice to their five. Charlton was similar - 62% possession but we hit the target twice and they hit it five times. Cardiff, we had 61% possession but had 9 shots, 2 on target. They had 14, 4 on target. Hudds nearly matched our shooting too (12 off, 2 on, to our 13, 3) despite our 64% possession. The only 60% plus game where we properly outmatched the opposition for shooting was Forest. In 4 out of these 6 possession-thrashing games, we had less shots on target.

We also had less possession, yet won, against Boro and Reading. That's half our league wins, even though there are only 3 games where we had less possession.

We are actually statistically much, much better when not controlling possession, that's how awful we are at being effective with it. The personnel and/or the formation are clearly much better adapted to playing counterattacking football and/or defending when we let the opposition have more of the ball.This matches with what I've seen, personally. Counter attacks carve us to pieces frequently, and we do have the pace to transition quickly. The stats are utterly damning of our possession-based game.

Took the stats from the google match reports btw, may be some discrepancies with other sources as there usually are with possession in particular. I wonder if these stats form part of our new-look statistical analysis! Can't imagine so.

[DE.]

Just now, bluebruce said:

It absolutely isn't helping. This is one of our most serious problems at the moment (and we have a few), we seem to think that keeping possession is more important than anything else, but have no idea what to do with it.

This season, we have had more possession than the opposition in 12 games out of 15.

We have had 60 percent possession or more in 6 games. These were Charlton (L), Oldham (W, cup), Cardiff (D 0-0), Luton (L), Forest (D), Hudds (D). The only win when we 'control' the game so much being when we had 73% possession against League Two Oldham and only scraped victory from defeat in injury time. We let them have 12 shots with only 27% possession, only managing 3 more than that ourselves. We had 67% possession against crappy Luton and yet hit the target twice to their five. Charlton was similar - 62% possession but we hit the target twice and they hit it five times. Cardiff, we had 61% possession but had 9 shots, 2 on target. They had 14, 4 on target. Hudds nearly matched our shooting too (12 off, 2 on, to our 13, 3) despite our 64% possession. The only 60% plus game where we properly outmatched the opposition for shooting was Forest. In 4 out of these 6 possession-thrashing games, we had less shots on target.

We also had less possession, yet won, against Boro and Reading. That's half our league wins, even though there are only 3 games where we had less possession.

We are actually statistically much, much better when not controlling possession, that's how awful we are at being effective with it. The personnel and/or the formation are clearly much better adapted to playing counterattacking football and/or defending when we let the opposition have more of the ball.This matches with what I've seen, personally. Counter attacks carve us to pieces frequently, and we do have the pace to transition quickly. The stats are utterly damning of our possession-based game.

Took the stats from the google match reports btw, may be some discrepancies with other sources as there usually are with possession in particular. I wonder if these stats form part of our new-look statistical analysis! Can't imagine so.

Especially funny when you read Mowbray saying he doesn't care about possession and only about scoring goals. It's in total contradiction with what we see with our own eyes - if we don't care about possession then why does our gameplan seem to revolve around having so much of it and doing so little with it? If it was a one off or had only happened in a few matches then fine, but as you say we have had more possession than the opposition in 12 of our 15 matches. That's not a coincidence, it's a deliberate pattern that clearly shows our game plan is based around keeping the ball. Unfortunately that same game plan rarely leads to useful shots on goal or indeed any shots on target at all. It's so ineffective that it's actually a genuine surprise when we score a goal, and if we go a goal behind then you can forget us winning the match. It never happens. 

Again this is the kind of thing a proper journalist would bring up with Mowbray when he makes nonsense comments - but they never do. He's given carte blanche to say whatever he wants without being questioned by anyone. The only time he ever gets pulled up is at the Q&A sessions, but then he just tells everyone what they want to hear before proceeding to fulfil none of his promises. Defenders are coming.

[bluebruce]

Just now, DE. said:

Especially funny when you read Mowbray saying he doesn't care about possession and only about scoring goals. It's in total contradiction with what we see with our own eyes - if we don't care about possession then why does our gameplan seem to revolve around having so much of it and doing so little with it? If it was a one off or had only happened in a few matches then fine, but as you say we have had more possession than the opposition in 12 of our 15 matches. That's not a coincidence, it's a deliberate pattern that clearly shows our game plan is based around keeping the ball. Unfortunately that same game plan rarely leads to useful shots on goal or indeed any shots on target at all. It's so ineffective that it's actually a genuine surprise when we score a goal, and if we go a goal behind then you can forget us winning the match. It never happens. 

Again this is the kind of thing a proper journalist would bring up with Mowbray when he makes nonsense comments - but they never do. He's given carte blanche to say whatever he wants without being questioned by anyone. The only time he ever gets pulled up is at the Q&A sessions, but then he just tells everyone what they want to hear before proceeding to fulfil none of his promises. Defenders are coming.

In fairness, the only time I've heard him say that (I think) was just after the Brum game, so maybe the penny has finally dropped? He has also repeatedly gone on about keeping the ball and 'recycling possession', so he obviously does (or did) focus on possession.

Regarding the LT, fairly sure I saw the live match thread, or a tweet from them or something, which said they weren't looking forward to interviewing TM after the match. Which is essentially an admission they're running scared of him. That kind of attitude doesn't belong to someone willing to ask the hard questions.

[MCMC1875]

54 minutes ago, Stuart said:

I feel that Mowbray has turned us into this.

A small time mentality that he is bringing to the club that Jack did everything in his power to remove. Managing Boro and Celtic must have gone to his head.

We are a town club but we are not a small-town, small-time one.

Players never “ready” to play, the club “only just a year out of League One”, “building slowly”. He is a dinosaur of old school football with its “grand old” clubs like Newcastle and Arsenal. Imagine if he ever took us up? We’d be mullered every week - and that’s just by the mighty Watfords and Brightons. I daren’t even contemplate a derby with that lot!

Didn't we play that lot in the League Cup soon after relegation. Mowbray lost a lot of credibility by picking a weak side and throwing the game.

[Stuart]

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

Didn't we play that lot in the League Cup soon after relegation. Mowbray lost a lot of credibility by picking a weak side and throwing the game.

I must have forgotten that! Proves how much Mowbray cares about the fans though.

[MCMC1875]

Just now, Stuart said:

I must have forgotten that! Proves how much Mowbray cares about the fans though.

Some fans never forgave him for that.

[frosty]

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

Didn't we play that lot in the League Cup soon after relegation. Mowbray lost a lot of credibility by picking a weak side and throwing the game.

We fielded an absolute stinker of a team that night. Caddis, Elliott Ward, Gladwin, Whittingham and Feeney all started....Antonsson upfront on his own too who was about as strong as a paper bag. Surprised it was only 2!

Edited October 23, 2019 by frosty

[USABlue]

22 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

Bradley Johnson was absolutely atrocious tonight. Have to laugh seeing folk having a go at young Buckley, at least he can pass a ball. He put the best cross in I’ve seen all season tonight.

Travis as well for as much running as he does, his use of the ball was terrible tonight. Downing was useless too.

Did Johnson even complete a pass, that.was.a.peach of a cross from the young lad wasn't it.  Armstrong too, Dack was 5.yards away and he blasts it to him are these not professional footballers?  do they not spend all their time kicking a ball JHC.

[MCMC1875]

Just now, frosty said:

We fielded an absolute stinker of a team that night. Caddis, Elliott Ward, Gladwin, Whittingham and Feeney all started....Antonsson upfront on his own too who was about as strong as a paper bag. Surprised it was only 2!

Thing is, we have a better squad on paper but results are no better.

[Crimpshrine]

I caught a bit of Mowbray's interview on Radio Lancs tonight.

Did he really say "I don't mind losing football matches but you have to lose the right way" ?