Leeds (A) - Same as last year lads... kind of.

[Pook]

2 hours ago, philipl said:

As expected, Leeds nothing special.

If we had started with Buckley as a forward midfielder rather than Adam Armstrong doing a tribute act to me in my prime, we would probably have taken a point.

Referee was abysmal.

Highly.disagree they are easily the toughest team to play, they press relentlessly.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Pook

[arbitro]

Just now, BankEnd Rover said:

O & Rothwell not coming on at all yesterday is the biggest crime I've ever seen. 

I'm still perplexed at that decision. 2-1 down and needing a goal he brings on arguably our most defensive midfielder. The people around me were all commenting on the bewildering decision from Mowbray. I can see Rothwell moving on in January.

[arbitro]

Just now, Pook said:

 

So he brought Evans on to capitalise on the nervousness. He really should think before speaking.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

8 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Yep.
 

You won’t find a bigger fan of Mark ATKINS than me. Definitely a great player, instrumental in our title win, and under appreciated. So much so I’d always make sure I bother to spell his name correctly. I didn’t hear him claim that a German international wasn’t a Championship level central midfielder on commentary today. What I did hear ATKINS say is that him and Tim Sherwood managed to play in a two in midfield and that it wasn’t rocket science - If one went the other stayed, hinting at the fact he thought the system was needlessly complicated.

On Evans, I see a limited defensive midfielder. Not useless, but not great.

I’ve seen Nyambe play the entire right hand side of the pitch, several false 9s at a time, a back 4 with wing backs “2 and a half strikers”, no strikers, 1 midfielder, a target man on the wing, and all sorts of other over complicated nonsense. You are talking about a man who has named an unchanged lineup once all season.

Burnley play it. Leicester won the league with it. Liverpool don’t, but Adam Armstrong isn’t Mo Salah.

I can name literally hundreds of players I think we should’ve signed. 

 

We'll see about Evans when O'Neill signs him for Stoke. We've had several maangers try to get a tune out of Evans and the only one who did was Lambert. A change of club will be the best for all parties

On Holtby, when playing as part of an attacking three he looked a world beater, whilst looking like an average Championship central mifielder....at best. Yet again Mowbray getting his tactics wrong again.

As for the back 4 and keeper, l wanted us to sign Virgil Van Dyke and Allison so my back 5 beats Chaddys. Chaddy, with the defenders at Mowbray's disposal, which back 5 would you pick?  

Edited November 10, 2019 by dingles staying down 4ever

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, dingles staying down 4ever said:

 We'll see about Evans when O'Neill signs him for Stoke

Well I look at his performances for Northern Ireland are miles better than Rovers

Just now, dingles staying down 4ever said:

As for the back 4 and keeper, l wanted us to sign Virgil Van Dyke and Allison so my back 5 beats Chaddys. Chaddy, with the defenders at Mowbray's disposal, which back 5 would you pick? 

No need for that. The players Ive mention were getable. Jansson cos the same fee as Gallagher. Byram was 500k and Pantilimon wouldnt have cost alot fee wise. 

Mowbray mess up this summer transfer business with his failure to sign a leader at centre back, right back and experience keeper. That lands at his door not the owners or club door. If he had done and we better defensively, more solid and picking up clean sheets. 

 

[BankEnd Rover]

Just now, arbitro said:

I'm still perplexed at that decision. 2-1 down and needing a goal he brings on arguably our most defensive midfielder. The people around me were all commenting on the bewildering decision from Mowbray. I can see Rothwell moving on in January.

I for one will be fuming when he leaves. For the sake of the lads career, I agree, he should move on.

[Hasta]

Just watched the Quest highlights. 

At least we are spreading the blame around defensively. All 4 are to blame. Del and Tosin for the first and Nyambe and Bennett for the second. 

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Hasta

[Stuart]

Just now, arbitro said:

I'm still perplexed at that decision. 2-1 down and needing a goal he brings on arguably our most defensive midfielder. The people around me were all commenting on the bewildering decision from Mowbray. I can see Rothwell moving on in January.

I think a 2-1 defeat was a good result in Mowbray’s eyes.

Rothwell will go and will be called all sorts by the Facebookerati.

[chaddyrovers]

8 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Yep.
 

You won’t find a bigger fan of Mark ATKINS than me. Definitely a great player, instrumental in our title win, and under appreciated. So much so I’d always make sure I bother to spell his name correctly. I didn’t hear him claim that a German international wasn’t a Championship level central midfielder on commentary today. What I did hear ATKINS say is that him and Tim Sherwood managed to play in a two in midfield and that it wasn’t rocket science - If one went the other stayed, hinting at the fact he thought the system was needlessly complicated.

On Evans, I see a limited defensive midfielder. Not useless, but not great.

I’ve seen Nyambe play the entire right hand side of the pitch, several false 9s at a time, a back 4 with wing backs “2 and a half strikers”, no strikers, 1 midfielder, a target man on the wing, and all sorts of other over complicated nonsense. You are talking about a man who has named an unchanged lineup once all season.

Burnley play it. Leicester won the league with it. Liverpool don’t, but Adam Armstrong isn’t Mo Salah.

I can name literally hundreds of players I think we should’ve signed. 

 

Well Atkins did say this. I decided to listen to BBC Lancs cos Atkins was on there commentating on Rovers. I enjoyed listening to him when on. 

Yes Atkins and Sherwood did that. Always enjoyed them 2 in the team. 

I do think Travis come get forward more and score more goals. 

Evans in Northern Ireland shirt is a different player to one in a Rovers shirt.

We can debate different systems all we want but we need to.play a way and system that suits the players. I listened to Pulis on last night football league talking about this issue and playing a formation that suits the players. I wonder how he play formation wise and players wise..

Same here. We missed out on signings we needed this season and last season..

[tomphil]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well I look at his performances for Northern Ireland are miles better than Rovers

No need for that. The players Ive mention were getable. Jansson cos the same fee as Gallagher. Byram was 500k and Pantilimon wouldnt have cost alot fee wise. 

Mowbray mess up this summer transfer business with his failure to sign a leader at centre back, right back and experience keeper. That lands at his door not the owners or club door. If he had done and we better defensively, more solid and picking up clean sheets. 

 

Possibly because he has better around him and to me i think he operates in a more forward role and looks more comfortable. Maybe it's just international football that offers more space but he seems to cover a bit more ground in the NI shirt.

Evans though for us has always always been a player who only plays when when the rest of the team is having a purple patch. He needs everyone around him doing well in order to look good like the back end of the promotion season.

[JHRover]

Same old stuff.

Customary 2 goals conceded. Defeat. Next to no clear chances to score. 3-4 players who might as well have been stood next to me given the contribution they made to the game. Usual hard luck poor us excuse available with the penalty decision. 

No doubt Mowbray will be quite happy to only lose 2-1 against the Leeds juggernaut. Combine the narrow scoreline away at a side near the top of the league with the dodgy penalty and that should be enough to fend off any serious questions for another few weeks. 

The second we went 1-0 down I had absolutely no confidence or belief we would get anything from the game.

I think we have sleepwalked into a relegation battle. I say that in past tense because we are in one now, this isn't something that might develop in a few weeks. Amazingly I see very little mention of the 'R' Word on here, in the media or in Mowbray's comments. I wonder when reality will dawn on these people and they admit to the predicament we are in. Probably too late. The writing is on the wall and has been for a couple of weeks now. The manager, other staff at the club and friends in the media just want to cart on and pretend all is ok with the world and we're just always unlucky.

I suspect by Christmas we will be below Huddersfield and Stoke.

I'm not happy with it. Relegation would be a catastrophe and I'm not prepared to put my head in the sand and pretend everything will work out fine because Tony is a nice bloke. 

[philipl]

Evans looked hugely off the pace when he came on.

[DE.]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Amazingly I see very little mention of the 'R' Word on here

In fairness we do already have a relegation thread so I'd say we're further ahead of the curve than most!

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, philipl said:

Evans looked hugely off the pace when he came on.

International pending so doesn't want any risk of injury, we've seen it all before time after time with this fella.  Again though the manager has other options but can't resist keeping his senior pros in the picture.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well Atkins did say this. I decided to listen to BBC Lancs cos Atkins was on there commentating on Rovers. I enjoyed listening to him when on. 

Yes Atkins and Sherwood did that. Always enjoyed them 2 in the team. 

I do think Travis come get forward more and score more goals. 

Evans in Northern Ireland shirt is a different player to one in a Rovers shirt.

We can debate different systems all we want but we need to.play a way and system that suits the players. I listened to Pulis on last night football league talking about this issue and playing a formation that suits the players. I wonder how he play formation wise and players wise..

Same here. We missed out on signings we needed this season and last season..

When a new manager arrives, as Mowbray did,  you have to work with what you've got player wise. I can understand that. You then evaluate who plays best in which position and sort out a formation that suits their particular skills. It may not be how you want to play but it is what it is for the time being. You have to go with what you've got.  Once you've got yourself established and the transfer windows come along you can start building teams to play in whatever style of play you favour. When Dyche came in at the Dingle Dome he said 4-4-2 is my way and they've played that way 99% of the time ever since. No chopping and changing. By and large all his signings have been players who can fit into that system.

My criticism of Mowbray is he has never created a team with a consistent style or coherent shape or a recognisable pattern of play in over 2 seasons.  Almost from the day we got relegated we've never really known our best 11. You could almost pick 2 entirely different teams from what we have now and one team would be no better than the other team, that's just ridiculous in our position. It's laughable to me that before a game 20 knowledgeable fans on here who go regularly can pick what they think will be the team for the next week and they'll be 20 different teams !  He's chopped and changed relentlessly without ever stumbling across a consistent side.  In my book all he's done is collect players without much regard to how they'll fit into a team shape. Look at all the midfielders he's signed ! It makes me wonder who is really behind the signing of some of them.

I felt the same way even when we were on the way to promotion. I just didn't think he really knew what he was doing. Most of the time we were less than convincing for more than half a game and it was only a flash or two of individual skill that got us through.

I think the bottom line is the players must be thinking that way too and they're just as sick of hearing his voice as we are. Time for a change, let's hope the dice rolls in our favour for once. It happens in football all the time, you outstay your welcome.

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, tomphil said:

International pending so doesn't want any risk of injury, we've seen it all before time after time with this fella.  Again though the manager has other options but can't resist keeping his senior pros in the picture.

Or maybe a move in the offing. You wouldn't want an injury to spoil that.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[tomphil]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Or maybe a move in the offering. You wouldn't want an injury to spoil that.

We can but hope.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, tomphil said:

We can but hope.

Well we certainly need to get about half a dozen off the wage bill.

[simongarnerisgod]

2 hours ago, BankEnd Rover said:

I for one will be fuming when he leaves. For the sake of the lads career, I agree, he should move on.

i can see rothwell moving on and then lighting up the division,it`s a matter of giving the lad a run of games in a settled system,i can remember franz carr being sold to forest for next to nothing then going on to be absolutely electric for them,they are both the same type of player

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well Atkins did say this. I decided to listen to BBC Lancs cos Atkins was on there commentating on Rovers. I enjoyed listening to him when on. 

Yes Atkins and Sherwood did that. Always enjoyed them 2 in the team. 

I do think Travis come get forward more and score more goals. 

Evans in Northern Ireland shirt is a different player to one in a Rovers shirt.

We can debate different systems all we want but we need to.play a way and system that suits the players. I listened to Pulis on last night football league talking about this issue and playing a formation that suits the players. I wonder how he play formation wise and players wise..

Same here. We missed out on signings we needed this season and last season..

The time has certainly come to abandon this playing it out from the back bollocks that quite clearly wont work with the players we have, its so slow and its far less entertaining even than the shite on offer last season which is saying something.

Graham should be the first name on the team sheet from now on. Sometimes we need to go a little more direct to get from back to front quicker and he is the only capable forward we have, Gallagher, Armstrong and Brereton are all horrendous signings that cost big money. If it means playing off Graham and getting the players we have, Dack, Rothwell and Holtby playing off him in dangerous areas (far too much of Dack and Holtby playing in their own half in recent weeks, pointless) and trying to keep teams pinned in their defensive thirds then thats how we should play. Mowbray need to go, if he stays he would need to abandon his stupid philosophies which he quite clearly is too stubborn to do.

Trying to play out from the back just causes us problems, its incredibly slow and we cant break down teams. You look at our goalkeeper, he cant handle the ball, all of our defenders cant bar Adarabioyo (whose weaknesses come with the bread and butter of defending) and our central midfielders cant play on the half turn, I think the likes of Travis and even Johnson have their merits but playing it out slowly on the half turn they will always struggle.

[chaddyrovers]

50 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

When a new manager arrives, as Mowbray did,  you have to work with what you've got player wise. I can understand that. You then evaluate who plays best in which position and sort out a formation that suits their particular skills. It may not be how you want to play but it is what it is for the time being. You have to go with what you've got.  Once you've got yourself established and the transfer windows come along you can start building teams to play in whatever style of play you favour. When Dyche came in at the Dingle Dome he said 4-4-2 is my way and they've played that way 99% of the time ever since. No chopping and changing. By and large all his signings have been players who can fit into that system.

My criticism of Mowbray is he has never created a team with a consistent style or coherent shape or a recognisable pattern of play in over 2 seasons.  Almost from the day we got relegated we've never really known our best 11. You could almost pick 2 entirely different teams from what we have now and one team would be no better than the other team, that's just ridiculous in our position. It's laughable to me that before a game 20 knowledgeable fans on here who go regularly can pick what they think will be the team for the next week and they'll be 20 different teams !  He's chopped and changed relentlessly without ever stumbling across a consistent side.  In my book all he's done is collect players without much regard to how they'll fit into a team shape. Look at all the midfielders he's signed ! It makes me wonder who is really behind the signing of some of them.

I felt the same way even when we were on the way to promotion. I just didn't think he really knew what he was doing. Most of the time we were less than convincing for more than half a game and it was only a flash or two of individual skill that got us through.

I think the bottom line is the players must be thinking that way too and they're just as sick of hearing his voice as we are. Time for a change, let's hope the dice rolls in our favour for once. It happens in football all the time, you outstay your welcome.

 

You make many good points in your post. 

if me and you were to pick our team for the Barnsley game I would imagine we would pick about 7 or 8 players the same. Possible a different formation aswell. 

IMO, Mowbray wants to play either 4-2-3-1 or 3-4-2-1 formation wise. I feel that sometimes he is looking to over complicant things at times instead of keeping it simple and stick with it for few games. 

One of my biggest criticism of him is failing to sign a leader at the back, experience right back and keeper. We didn't know loads of signings but mostly defensively signings we need, 

I have posted a number of different managers suggestions in a past few weeks. what do you think of those suggestions

[DE.]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Graham should be the first name on the team sheet from now on.

A fair few of us have been saying this more or less since the beginning of September, but I think at this point it's clear Mowbray is purposefully phasing Graham out. Perhaps he's under pressure after the Brereton disaster to play Gallagher and prove that he hasn't wasted another big chunk of money on a striker. Unfortunately evidence thus far suggests he probably has and repeatedly leaving our best striker on the bench in favour of Gallagher or Armstrong is not doing TM any favours. He's dropped two big bollocks with Brereton and Gallagher, and increasingly looking like he's dropped even more in defence and even midfield with the likes of Johnson now behind Evans and Buckley whilst Smallwood continues receiving a wage despite being nowhere near the first team squad. 

[G Somerset Rover]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

In fairness we do already have a relegation thread so I'd say we're further ahead of the curve than most!

Twitter and Facebook is where the majority of the deluded fools are dwelling right now. ‘We’ll come good!’, ‘We’re getting such bad luck with injuries’, ‘refereeing decisions are costing us!’, ‘get a few new players in January and we'll fire up the league’.

Heads. In. Sand.

[Blue blood]

In fairness to Smallwood he was a means to an end -  promotion - that he did well. Agree he should have gone in the summer though. Or Evans who I really don't rate. 

If Johnson is a busted flush then TM is really floundering in the transfer market. Not sure how many of this season's signings have improved us. Downing? Cunningham briefly and unfortunate he got an injury. The City lad blows hot and cold. That's a horrendous success record when only 1 definitely improves the team and a couple kind of do. 

This suggests January won't be any kind of salvation for us as even of we do bring in players, most of them are duds. 

[MCMC1875]

15 hours ago, Bohinen 22 said:

One shot on target is embarrassing. Tony needs to go. But he won't sadly. Said it on another thread but Radio Lancs need to do their job and ask some tough questions to Mowbray. Graham Liver and co don't hold back on MPs but the sports team never ever do the same to managers. Sad and smacks of protecting themselves.

They tow the club line because they don't want to lose their press accreditation.