Leeds (A) - Same as last year lads... kind of.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The time has certainly come to abandon this playing it out from the back bollocks that quite clearly wont work with the players we have, its so slow and its far less entertaining even than the shite on offer last season which is saying something.

Graham should be the first name on the team sheet from now on. Sometimes we need to go a little more direct to get from back to front quicker and he is the only capable forward we have, Gallagher, Armstrong and Brereton are all horrendous signings that cost big money. If it means playing off Graham and getting the players we have, Dack, Rothwell and Holtby playing off him in dangerous areas (far too much of Dack and Holtby playing in their own half in recent weeks, pointless) and trying to keep teams pinned in their defensive thirds then thats how we should play. Mowbray need to go, if he stays he would need to abandon his stupid philosophies which he quite clearly is too stubborn to do.

Trying to play out from the back just causes us problems, its incredibly slow and we cant break down teams. You look at our goalkeeper, he cant handle the ball, all of our defenders cant bar Adarabioyo (whose weaknesses come with the bread and butter of defending) and our central midfielders cant play on the half turn, I think the likes of Travis and even Johnson have their merits but playing it out slowly on the half turn they will always struggle.

Dack drop deeper cos teams have worked us out so either man marked Dack or push up the pitch higher than usual. 

Most managers are too stubborn if their philosophies. Its very easy for us to comment as its not our job or on the line 

Ive not over the signings Mowbray made or should have made over the past summer as we know what we all think

[Blue blood]

Just now, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Twitter and Facebook is where the majority of the deluded fools are dwelling right now. ‘We’ll come good!’, ‘We’re getting such bad luck with injuries’, ‘refereeing decisions are costing us!’, ‘get a few new players in January and we'll fire up the league’.

Heads. In. Sand.

How are we getting such bad luck with injuries? Cunningham granted but even then losing one key player is probably par for the course. Outside of that there's not really been any major injuries and certainly not to our key players. Perhaps Lenihen but 3 seasons of long term injuries may suggest it's not a surprise. 

And when have we been unlucky? Take yesterday for example. They had 4 times the number of shots we did, and double the possession. Overly simplistic admittedly but that suggests we were well beaten. And that isn't a first. How are we unlucky when we have so few shots each game? 

Not at you Gaviar just pointing out how daft these views are...

[Cherry Blue]

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

They tow the club line because they don't want to lose their press accreditation.

I'm aware one mentioned is a Burnley fan.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

When a new manager arrives, as Mowbray did,  you have to work with what you've got player wise. I can understand that. You then evaluate who plays best in which position and sort out a formation that suits their particular skills. It may not be how you want to play but it is what it is for the time being. You have to go with what you've got.  Once you've got yourself established and the transfer windows come along you can start building teams to play in whatever style of play you favour. When Dyche came in at the Dingle Dome he said 4-4-2 is my way and they've played that way 99% of the time ever since. No chopping and changing. By and large all his signings have been players who can fit into that system.

My criticism of Mowbray is he has never created a team with a consistent style or coherent shape or a recognisable pattern of play in over 2 seasons.  Almost from the day we got relegated we've never really known our best 11. You could almost pick 2 entirely different teams from what we have now and one team would be no better than the other team, that's just ridiculous in our position. It's laughable to me that before a game 20 knowledgeable fans on here who go regularly can pick what they think will be the team for the next week and they'll be 20 different teams !  He's chopped and changed relentlessly without ever stumbling across a consistent side.  In my book all he's done is collect players without much regard to how they'll fit into a team shape. Look at all the midfielders he's signed ! It makes me wonder who is really behind the signing of some of them.

I felt the same way even when we were on the way to promotion. I just didn't think he really knew what he was doing. Most of the time we were less than convincing for more than half a game and it was only a flash or two of individual skill that got us through.

I think the bottom line is the players must be thinking that way too and they're just as sick of hearing his voice as we are. Time for a change, let's hope the dice rolls in our favour for once. It happens in football all the time, you outstay your welcome.

 

Spot on. There seems to be an attitude towards sacking managers that it is a bad thing that should be avoided but in reality in the vast majority of cases it is an essential part of club management and is required to push the club on to better things.

Managers go in cycles. Usually a couple of seasons. A few exceptions at this level like Johnson at Bristol but he's had them improving each season at the right end of the league. You even look at Harris at Millwall - club legend who got them up and kept them up but this season realised time was up and walked.

Mowbray has been here now for 2.5 years so well above the average tenure. He's done well overall in getting us back up and keeping us up but it is quite clear now that things aren't working and the solution is likely to be a change in coaching personnel. Mowbray squandered a good opportunity in January and then in the summer to keep us moving in the right direction and pushing on by refusing to address our weaknesses and squandering millions on non-contributing players. 

Time's up now. But as we've seen and I've warned against for the last 18 months allowing Mowbray to accumulate vast power and control over the club means it is unlikely he will go anywhere unless he walks. The structure that has been put in place at this club is backward and so flawed it is untrue. All built on the basis that Mowbray is here and getting results on the pitch, which now he isn't. 

[DE.]

Just now, Blue blood said:

How are we getting such bad luck with injuries? Cunningham granted but even then losing one key player is probably par for the course. Outside of that there's not really been any major injuries and certainly not to our key players. Perhaps Lenihen but 3 seasons of long term injuries may suggest it's not a surprise. 

And when have we been unlucky? Take yesterday for example. They had 4 times the number of shots we did, and double the possession. Overly simplistic admittedly but that suggests we were well beaten. And that isn't a first. How are we unlucky when we have so few shots each game? 

Not at you Gaviar just pointing out how daft these views are...

Completely agree. We routinely fail to register anywhere close to a decent amount of shots on target and regularly let opponents have shots on our goal. The outcome of that over the course of a season is always going to be bad. It's nothing to do with luck. We don't create and we're too easy to play against. Shipping two or more goals in 5 of our last 8 games tells you all you need to know. 

Injuries are part and parcel of the game, good managers make sure they have enough to get by or do everything they can to minimise the chances of injuries occuring. As far as I can tell we do neither. It isn't bad luck that Cunningham got injured and we only had Bell & Williams as back up. It's a direct result of poor defensive recruitment from the manager, with our reserve players well below the required standard to even fill in much less contribute positively.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Out of interest, do you stand by the claim that the current group of players and a different manager could compete for the top 6?

Yup. Quite easily. This league is wide open, and the game vs Sheffield Wednesday showed that the team is capable. We're constantly let down by ridiculous managerial decisions. Evans on at 2-1 down etc... I firmly believe a top manager would have this side in promotion contention. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Dack drop deeper cos teams have worked us out so either man marked Dack or push up the pitch higher than usual. 

Most managers are too stubborn if their philosophies. Its very easy for us to comment as its not our job or on the line 

Ive not over the signings Mowbray made or should have made over the past summer as we know what we all think

He has played a stupid 4-1-4-1 formation a couple of times recently, Dack should be feeding off our striker, he is not a central midfielder but he has been played there. Ultimately with a crap striker like Gallagher, Dack wont be able to get the ball in areas where he can hurt teams.

If he would rather be stubborn to his philosophy even though it quite clearly is less effective (and more drab) then hes an even bigger idiot than we think. He did it in League 1 after a dozen games, ripped up the way that was causing us to underachieve. Your "job on the line" comment makes no sense, surely stubbornness at the cost of results is the exact kind of thing that costs managers jobs? Sadly ours is not a normal run club, the owners dont care and the CEO is Mowbrays mate so hes here for as long as he wants. 

Our side at the moment also lacks bollocks, lets be honest. We dont have any characters really. For the next game, Bennett, Downing, Gallagher and Armstrong need to be dropped, I would bring in Lenihan, Johnson, Graham and Rothwell, dont be afraid of going more direct, the last 4 away games have summed up our manager and team, surrendered at QPR, a really limp display at Birmingham, a total surrender at Preston and another limp display yesterday.

[roversfan99]

Just now, JoeH said:

Yup. Quite easily. This league is wide open, and the game vs Sheffield Wednesday showed that the team is capable. We're constantly let down by ridiculous managerial decisions. Evans on at 2-1 down etc... I firmly believe a top manager would have this side in promotion contention. 

It seems a totally baseless statement to make. Which of our players are top 6 quality? Only Dack IMO. We finished 15th last season and have regressed since. The manager takes much of the blame I agree, and I also think that the quality of the games in this league is poor, but ultimately Mowbray has not built a particularly good squad for the money hes had. Poor goalkeeper, incompetent defence, no width, no goals, no leaders, its a bottom half squad hes built I think, maybe a good manager could have us in mid table.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

He has played a stupid 4-1-4-1 formation a couple of times recently, Dack should be feeding off our striker, he is not a central midfielder but he has been played there. Ultimately with a crap striker like Gallagher, Dack wont be able to get the ball in areas where he can hurt teams.

 

We played for 1 and half game. That's it!!!

Dack was man marked against Cardiff, Sheffield Wednesday. Plus teams are pushing up higher at times against us. 

I would have took Dack off against Sheffield Wednesday tbh. No impact and Hutchinson man marked him second half. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

We played for 1 and half game. That's it!!!

Dack was man marked against Cardiff, Sheffield Wednesday. Plus teams are pushing up higher at times against us. 

I would have took Dack off against Sheffield Wednesday tbh. No impact and Hutchinson man marked him second half. 

With ineffective players like Downing and Armstrong down the wings, teams know that if they stop Dack, they stop us. 

[dingles staying down 4ever]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well I look at his performances for Northern Ireland are miles better than Rovers

No need for that. The players Ive mention were getable. Jansson cos the same fee as Gallagher. Byram was 500k and Pantilimon wouldnt have cost alot fee wise. 

Mowbray mess up this summer transfer business with his failure to sign a leader at centre back, right back and experience keeper. That lands at his door not the owners or club door. If he had done and we better defensively, more solid and picking up clean sheets. 

 

As I said before Evans has played well for O'Neill so it would be no surprise if Stoke come calling in Janurary. As far as I'm aware all three players you mentioned were never an option considered by Rovers during the summer.

Still think that Venkys are only approving funds for forwards so even though Jansson cost the same as Gallagher it was as much of an option as Van Dyke. God only knows what the logic behind the keeper was but I think Forest would blow us out of the water for wages.

As a manager of the club, he is accountable to the owners for results so I disagree about the blame not landing at the owners or the club. Our big downfall last season was poor defending so when this was not effectively tackled, senior mangement at the club should have been asking questions but his mates wouldn't. So manager, club and owners are to blame.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

With ineffective players like Downing and Armstrong down the wings, teams know that if they stop Dack, they stop us. 

Yes teams do know this and they push up higher and crowd the centre of the pitch. 

The form of our wide players in Armstrong, Rothwell, etc hasn't been good enough. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Yes teams do know this and they push up higher and crowd the centre of the pitch. 

The form of our wide players in Armstrong, Rothwell, etc hasn't been good enough. 

Rothwell never gets played, unless you spelt Downing wrong.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, dingles staying down 4ever said:

As I said before Evans has played well for O'Neill so it would be no surprise if Stoke come calling in January. As far as I'm aware all three players you mentioned were never an option considered by Rovers during the summer.

Still think that Venkys are only approving funds for forwards so even though Jansson cost the same as Gallagher it was as much of an option as Van Dyke. God only knows what the logic behind the keeper was but I think Forest would blow us out of the water for wages.

I'm don't know who are first choices were for the positions Ive mention before apart from we went for 2 foreign targets for keeper spot and we missed out on both for different reasons. Karl Darlow was a target but his wages demands was too high as Steve Waggott told the fans forum this was the case. 

We need a centre back in the mould of Jansson and failure to get this has cost us big time

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Rothwell never gets played, unless you spelt Downing wrong.

Whenever he has played he hasn't played well enough or an impact on the game apart from Sheff Wed game he had impact. I am big fan of us but this season he hasn't been the same as last season. I think he would be better in 3 man centre midfield similar to James Maddison role at Leicester

[Tony Rover]

The club as a whole feels so hollow, no surprise with the heart being ripped out. Mowbray needs to go, there is the making of a team that could do something with the right players added. I’m past worrying what we might get if TM leaves, time for a change. 

[Dolly blue]

Haven’t felt so low in a long time. We continue to watch poor players, playing in the wrong positions . I can’t really believe they are actually their football....led and “coached” by a man who had outlived his usefulness . 

They play without hope, we watch without hope . 

Over the years Rovers managers have been measured on their recruitment....and some have done it brilliantly. Then we have Mowbray, a man who has scandalously squandered millions on , at best league 1 standard forwards , lads born  in the North  East or “nice lads who buy into my ethos” ......and this  brings us to where we are today. 
 

Whilst Mowbray remains at the club , recruiting in the January window....we are doomed. No leadership, no atmosphere, no hope.....very sad.

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Whenever he has played he hasn't played well enough or an impact on the game apart from Sheff Wed game he had impact. I am big fan of us but this season he hasn't been the same as last season. I think he would be better in 3 man centre midfield similar to James Maddison role at Leicester

Because he hasnt been starting games, he has been dropped right from the start of the season for Downing, a managers favourite who at his age despite being neat and tidy is often ineffective and laboured.

He was excellent on the left hand side for a continued run of games last season, he should have been starting this season from day 1.

Armstrong and Downing have started 14 games, Rothwell was a stand out wide player for us at the end of last season, hes not one of the managers favourites though and has started 4, all tough away games in isolation before being singled out and dropped as a result.

Getting 15/20 minutes at the end is totally different.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Because he hasnt been starting games, he has been dropped right from the start of the season for Downing, a managers favourite who at his age despite being neat and tidy is often ineffective and laboured.

He was excellent on the left hand side for a continued run of games last season, he should have been starting this season from day 1.

Armstrong and Downing have started 14 games, Rothwell was a stand out wide player for us at the end of last season, hes not one of the managers favourites though and has started 4, all tough away games in isolation before being singled out and dropped as a result.

Getting 15/20 minutes at the end is totally different.

Yes Rothwell was excellent LAST SEASON! But not this season. 

Whenever he been on the pitch he hasn't impressed simple as whether it been 15 or 20 mins or starting games it all matters. 

but at the end of day we need to sorted the defence out 1st 

[G Somerset Rover]

40 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

How are we getting such bad luck with injuries? Cunningham granted but even then losing one key player is probably par for the course. Outside of that there's not really been any major injuries and certainly not to our key players. Perhaps Lenihen but 3 seasons of long term injuries may suggest it's not a surprise. 

And when have we been unlucky? Take yesterday for example. They had 4 times the number of shots we did, and double the possession. Overly simplistic admittedly but that suggests we were well beaten. And that isn't a first. How are we unlucky when we have so few shots each game? 

Not at you Gaviar just pointing out how daft these views are...

Daft in the extreme pal but they’re there on Twitter and Facebook - trust me. These fans will be the first to say a change was right when it inevitably does come - albeit far too late. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

You make many good points in your post. 

if me and you were to pick our team for the Barnsley game I would imagine we would pick about 7 or 8 players the same. Possible a different formation aswell. 

IMO, Mowbray wants to play either 4-2-3-1 or 3-4-2-1 formation wise. I feel that sometimes he is looking to over complicant things at times instead of keeping it simple and stick with it for few games. 

One of my biggest criticism of him is failing to sign a leader at the back, experience right back and keeper. We didn't know loads of signings but mostly defensively signings we need, 

I have posted a number of different managers suggestions in a past few weeks. what do you think of those suggestions

It is possible we may pick the same 7 or 8 players but in an ideal world we should be picking the same 11. When we won the Prem and won promotion  back to the Prem the team was the same 11 every week barring injuries.  Other teams also knew how we were going to play but we stuck to our basic game plan and most weeks it paid off. You and I could name both those teams now. I follow teams quite closely, even the Dingles, but it's coming to something when I can tell you what 11 they'll play next game but I haven't a clue what our team will be.

Regarding prospective managerial appointments I despair. Whoever you or I come up with I can almost guarantee that they won't be appointed.  How many of Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Lampard, Coyle, Mowbray were on your radar ? None of them were on mine. I was delighted when Lampard, Irvine and the other guy who's name I forget were appointed. I thought for once they'd made a sensible decision, what a good experienced team they appeared to be.  However for whatever reason they managed to balls that up. I do wonder what that managerial team would have done with the £12 million plus that Mowbray has squandered ?

Edited November 10, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It is possible we may pick the same 7 or 8 players but in an ideal world we should be picking the same 11. When we won the Prem and won promotion  back to the Prem the team was the same 11 every week barring injuries.  Other teams also knew how we were going to play but we stuck to our basic game plan and most weeks it paid off. You and I could name both those teams now.

Regarding prospective managerial appointments I despair. Whoever you or I come up with I can almost guarantee that they won't be appointed.  How many of Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Lambert, Coyle, Mowbray were on your radar ? None of them were on mine. I was delighted when Lambert, Irvine and the other guy who's name I forget were appointed. I thought for once they'd made a sensible decision, what a good experienced team they appeared to be.  However for whatever reason they managed to balls that up. I do wonder if that managerial team would have done with the £12 million plus that Mowbray has squandered ?

Lambert was my choice to replace Bowyer. Irvine and Rob Kelly were good coaches 

Rob Kelly is now coaching in Sweden at Malmo with Uwe Rosler who I would imagine would applied for the job here if it was available. 

Bowyer was my choice at the end of that season for the job. 

Coyle deffo not. after he was sacked I didn't have a clue who we would employ next

Wanted Holloway as manager when Berg was appointed and I believe Holloway would have got us up that season. I will never understand why Shebby and Shaw didn't appoint him or why Shebby walked out on that meeting. 

Shebby was going to appoint Billy McKinlay at one point on Gerry Armstrong's recommendation 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Lambert was my choice to replace Bowyer. Irvine and Rob Kelly were good coaches 

Rob Kelly is now coaching in Sweden at Malmo with Uwe Rosler who I would imagine would applied for the job here if it was available. 

Bowyer was my choice at the end of that season for the job. 

Coyle deffo not. after he was sacked I didn't have a clue who we would employ next

Wanted Holloway as manager when Berg was appointed and I believe Holloway would have got us up that season. I will never understand why Shebby and Shaw didn't appoint him or why Shebby walked out on that meeting. 

Shebby was going to appoint Billy McKinlay at one point on Gerry Armstrong's recommendation 

Yes Rob Kelly was the guy I was thinking off. Three very experienced men. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Lambert and co appointment come out of the blue ?

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yes Rob Kelly was the guy I was thinking off. Three very experienced men. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Lambert and co appointment come out of the blue ?

It was rumoured for a few weeks before hand that Rovers was looking to sack Bowyer and if I remember correctly the 4 man shortlist was Paul Lambert, Nigel Pearson, Ian Holloway and Jokanovic..

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/blackburn-want-former-watford-boss-6807462

[MCMC1875]

27 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It is possible we may pick the same 7 or 8 players but in an ideal world we should be picking the same 11. When we won the Prem and won promotion  back to the Prem the team was the same 11 every week barring injuries.  Other teams also knew how we were going to play but we stuck to our basic game plan and most weeks it paid off. You and I could name both those teams now. I follow teams quite closely, even the Dingles, but it's coming to something when I can tell you what 11 they'll play next game but I haven't a clue what our team will be.

Regarding prospective managerial appointments I despair. Whoever you or I come up with I can almost guarantee that they won't be appointed.  How many of Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Lampard, Coyle, Mowbray were on your radar ? None of them were on mine. I was delighted when Lampard, Irvine and the other guy who's name I forget were appointed. I thought for once they'd made a sensible decision, what a good experienced team they appeared to be.  However for whatever reason they managed to balls that up. I do wonder what that managerial team would have done with the £12 million plus that Mowbray has squandered ?

Flowers

Berg

Hendry

Pearce/Gale

Le Saux

Ripley

Sherwood

Wilcox

Shearer

Sutton

Edited November 10, 2019 by MCMC1875