Barnsley (h) - the Cauldron Of Hate part 2?

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Stuart said:

Are we now supposed to keep him on because he needs the money?

Stuart, my view on Mowbray is the same as for the past few weeks. We need a change. The people I go with to Football all agree we need of manager. We discussed potential candidaties as I posted yesterday. 

Mowbray cant get us top 6 or even challenging for top 6 which IMO he should be doing so

[arbitro]

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Its very easy for fans to keep posting please walk Mowbray when its not your job

I and many others believe that the only way Mowbray will leave is if he does it of his own volition. We are £175m in debt which is rising each season, we have no leadership in the boardroom, we have (Dack aside) no discernible assets on the field, the ground is shabby and a plethora of other things. We have spent £12m on two young strikers who we would struggle to give away.

To address most of the above we need Premier League football and the vast majority feel that under the current set up (on and off the field) we haven't got a chance. I would like to say that at least we are treading water but we are not - we are regressing. There was more talk of relegation yesterday around where I sit because the reality of where we are as a club is biting. 

Can Mowbray deliver a promotion?

So to go back to my point I don't believe under the current ownership and structure Mowbray will be sacked. He has ingratiated himself on the owners and pretty much put himself at the top of the Ewood power base. So when people plead within to walk they believe it will be his decision.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, arbitro said:

I and many others believe that the only way Mowbray will leave is if he does it of his own volition. We are £175m in debt which is rising each season, we have no leadership in the boardroom, we have (Dack aside) no discernible assets on the field, the ground is shabby and a plethora of other things. We have spent £12m on two young strikers who we would struggle to give away.

To address most of the above we need Premier League football and the vast majority feel that under the current set up (on and off the field) we haven't got a chance. I would like to say that at least we are treading water but we are not - we are regressing. There was more talk of relegation yesterday around where I sit because the reality of where we are as a club is biting. 

Can Mowbray deliver a promotion?

So to go back to my point I don't believe under the current ownership and structure Mowbray will be sacked. He has ingratiated himself on the owners and pretty much put himself at the top of the Ewood power base. So when people plead within to walk they believe it will be his decision.

Well the spending of 12 mil on 2 strikers was Mowbray choice and it should be part of the reasons he loses his job. 

No Mowbray cannot deliver Top 6 finish IMO. My view has changed since the summer. 

We will be mid table team and nothing else under Mowbray..we wont be lower 16th but no higher than 12th which is a huge dissappointment to me. 

The owner have a decision to make. If they want promotion a change need to happen now

[K-Hod]

Whilst obviously, I’m glad (more relieved tbh) that we won yesterday. We were so poor.

Armstrong and Gallagher playing in the wrong positions, Walton dropping another clanger and Bennett being Bennett, we won in spite of those hinderances tbh. 
 

I do wonder how badly Armstrong has to play to be dropped, though. Taking Rothwell off instead of him was pathetic. 
 

Only real positive was a substitute scoring again. 

[JacknOry]

I just want a manager that plays players in their correct positions. Sick and tired of this strikers on the wing business. Sick and tired of this new 'possession based' style of play that ultimately goes nowhere, sick and tired of the flair, creativity and drive being drilled out of players, and sick and tired of favourites getting a free ride while others get hammered publically by the manager.

We need some new ideas.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Well the spending of 12 mil on 2 strikers was Mowbray choice and it should be part of the reasons he loses his job. 

No Mowbray cannot deliver Top 6 finish IMO. My view has changed since the summer. 

We will be mid table team and nothing else under Mowbray..we wont be lower 16th but no higher than 12th which is a huge dissappointment to me. 

The owner have a decision to make. If they want promotion a change need to happen now

I seem to recall you being pretty keen to sign those 2 strikers at the time Chaddy.  Feel free to correct if I'm wrong.

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Well the spending of 12 mil on 2 strikers was Mowbray choice and it should be part of the reasons he loses his job. 

I'm not absolutely sure that it was his choice. But that's a different story.

I believe that his stubborn persistence with Gallagher at the expense of Graham is either him trying to keep the owners happy or is the owners insisting on his inclusion to protect their investment.

[tomphil]

9 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

As Venky's provide money to pay the bills and 'bank roll' the club, net laibilities increase proportionally. What's the debt now £170 million ? 

We may well end up like Bolton if the Bank of India decides it wants some money back.

Meanwhile a fire sale every third or fourth year should keep them from calling in whatever they might be providing.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, JHRover said:

I'm not absolutely sure that it was his choice. But that's a different story.

I believe that his stubborn persistence with Gallagher at the expense of Graham is either him trying to keep the owners happy or is the owners insisting on his inclusion to protect their investment.

Their " investment " goes down every time he plays. 

[tomphil]

Just now, K-Hod said:

Whilst obviously, I’m glad (more relieved tbh) that we won yesterday. We were so poor.

Armstrong and Gallagher playing in the wrong positions, Walton dropping another clanger and Bennett being Bennett, we won in spite of those hinderances tbh. 
 

I do wonder how badly Armstrong has to play to be dropped, though. Taking Rothwell off instead of him was pathetic. 
 

Only real positive was a substitute scoring again. 

With Armstrong i'm torn between thinking he's this seasons project to get games into, show he's able to be deployed in a few positions and hope he notches a few and gets good stats.

Value goes up, scouts might be watching then hope to punt him on to bring a bit back in and keep the investment people & FFP happy.

OR

Just the fact that Mowbrays imbalanced recruitment and blatant favouritism means we've naff all else to start regularly on that side. He has warped thinking when it comes to tactics so he probably thinks it works fine.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Herbie6590 said:

For the sake of factual accuracy, I know it’s unfashionable during an election campaign...Rovers are not in hock to the Bank of India as per the last accounts. Rovers debt (save for a relatively modest overdraft) is to Venky’s. 

Is there anything to say they don't provide the funds from India though in form of loans against the parent company or venky assets ? It certainly won't be anything like 170 million but there could be a funding circle of 30 million or so that will need paying down at some point.

Last time i looked which was admittedly a while ago the VH group was run on quite large debts although they obviously have the turnover, assets and liquidity to cover it.

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by tomphil

[4000Holes]

For those of us who think Mowbray has gone beyond his sell by date.  Hope and pray that Middlesbrough get turned over in the lunch time match today.  I feel a Souness situation coming on.

[Bbrovers2288]

Just now, tomphil said:

With Armstrong i'm torn between thinking he's this seasons project to get games into, show he's able to be deployed in a few positions and hope he notches a few and gets good stats.

Value goes up, scouts might be watching then hope to punt him on to bring a bit back in and keep the investment people & FFP happy.

OR

Just the fact that Mowbrays imbalanced recruitment and blatant favouritism means we've naff all else to start regularly on that side. He has warped thinking when it comes to tactics so he probably thinks it works fine.

I got grief in the summer for saying I wanted a winger in as I was told unless Tony sees a winger he feels was value then it would be Armstrong’s position, which I didn’t see working out. 
for all he is a fast wee bugger, he can’t cross and skies every 2/3 shots. Seen more sweat on Prince Andrew than 90 mins of armstrong 

[Bbrovers2288]

Just now, 4000Holes said:

For those of us who think Mowbray has gone beyond his sell by date.  Hope and pray that Middlesbrough get turned over in the lunch time match today.  I feel a Souness situation coming on.

Mboro won’t touch mowbray 

[matt83]

Just watched the highlights. Another calamity Walton special 

[tomphil]

Just now, Bbrovers2288 said:

I got grief in the summer for saying I wanted a winger in as I was told unless Tony sees a winger he feels was value then it would be Armstrong’s position, which I didn’t see working out. 
for all he is a fast wee bugger, he can’t cross and skies every 2/3 shots. Seen more sweat on Prince Andrew than 90 mins of armstrong 

Mowbray needs to dig out this lazy little git on his lack of tracking back if he isn't going to drop him. He looks like he feels it's beneath him. Craig Conway he ain't but at 30 odd he put more graft in.

[Amo]

Mowbray lectures Rothwell and Chapman about grafting and the "seriousness" of the game but the shiftless Armstrong is one of his first picks. Guess it pays to be part of the lemon drizzle gang ?

[the original david brent]

Just had chance to watch the goals on quest; to anybody just watching that it would give the misleading impression it was a 3-2 epic! It was anything but! It was the worse 3-2 win I’ve ever witnessed. 
 

Our saving grace was a moment of quality from Downing (probably ruled out by VAR due to Dack interfering in an offside position) and a fantastic reaction by Dack to score the winner. Indeed that’s the difference between a quality player like Dack who had the brain and reaction time to anticipate the rebound, and an average striker like Armstrong who should have had the nounce to react to Rothwell’s long range effort but instead was flat footed and day dreaming.

Re the defending I actually think our 2 centre halves did okay but they are hindered by inferior full backs. Point in question is Barnsley’s first goal. Lenihan was dragged forward out of line and therefore out of position; that’s when a centre half needs his full backs to sense the danger and tuck in. Bell should have spotted this, swept round and cut out the danger. Unfortunately he was another caught day dreaming, he reacted too late and their lad had the freedom of the box to score. 
 

It’s basic full back defending and frustrating to watch. Particularly more frustrating when our manager was a respected top flight centre half! If I can see it and I’m sure others can, why is such poor defending happening every week?! 

[Angry_Pirate]

Team on Wednesday should be:

Leutwiler 

Nyambe - Lenihan - Tosin - Bell*

Travis - Downing

Holtby - Dack - Rothwell

Graham

(Won't happen in 1,000,000 years)

I expect i will be 5 out, probably 6, as I'm sure Rothwell will be dropped for not scoring from 40 yards, and we know that Walton, Bennett, Armstrong and Gallagher HAVE to play under this manager. Evans and Johnson probably get the nod in CM aswell ?

[Crimpshrine]

3 hours ago, WIR Second Coming said:

There is no hole in the Bank of India's finances, nor is there any reason for them to come calling on behalf of our (deluded) benefactors whose cash has been squandered for the past 9 years. If the Venkys wish to finance a weird vanity project for undisclosed reasons, just because they do this via an institution like BoI it doesn't mean BoI have any interest at all in the underlying reasons why they spend their money on us.

This was in the LET last time the annual figures were announced:

Rovers’ overdraft, currently with the State Bank of India, is up for renewal in March, with the club directors confident it will be renewed.The club’s ‘ultimate parent company’ Venkateshwara Hatcheries Pvt. Ltd ‘has sufficient funds and is willing to provide such additional financing as may be required to fund the company’ for the foreseeable future.

My point is that this won't go on forever. There is an overdraft to pay back at some point. How long is the foreseeable future ?

You may not be worried but I am.

[davulsukur]

Just now, Angry_Pirate said:

Team on Wednesday should be:

Leutwiler 

Nyambe - Lenihan - Tosin - Bell*

Travis - Downing

Holtby - Dack - Rothwell

Graham

(Won't happen in 1,000,000 years)

I expect i will be 5 out, probably 6, as I'm sure Rothwell will be dropped for not scoring from 40 yards, and we know that Walton, Bennett, Armstrong and Gallagher HAVE to play under this manager. Evans and Johnson probably get the nod in CM aswell ?

Unfortunately there is no point in predicting a line up and not putting Bennett in it. Mowbray has been pretty clear that if Bennett is fit to play, he'll play.

And its not because he's any good either.

[Stuart]

Just now, Angry_Pirate said:

Team on Wednesday should be:

Leutwiler 

Nyambe - Lenihan - Tosin - Bell*

Travis - Downing

Holtby - Dack - Rothwell

Graham

(Won't happen in 1,000,000 years)

I expect i will be 5 out, probably 6, as I'm sure Rothwell will be dropped for not scoring from 40 yards, and we know that Walton, Bennett, Armstrong and Gallagher HAVE to play under this manager. Evans and Johnson probably get the nod in CM aswell ?

If we are dropping Walton I’d sooner play Joe Hilton that Leutwiler.

Tony doesn’t like Joes though.

[Wegerleswiggle]

Just now, Stuart said:

 

Tony doesn’t like Joes though.

I beg to differ, he picks a team full of average ones every week! 

[USABlue]

16 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

to be fair to gallagher,im`e in no pretence he`s ever go to be more than an average centre forward,but to stick him on the wing and basically maroon him there is fucking stupid,management is supposed to be getting the best out of your players,not making them look crap by playing them where they arn`t effective

I was pretty happy with Gally today in the fact that at least he was trying.

[USABlue]

16 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

I still haven’t heard one murmer of the manager feeling the heat from upstairs or in the media. I want him gone as much as anyone but I just can’t see it

Sadly, me either he is here until we go completely tits up.