Barnsley (h) - the Cauldron Of Hate part 2?

[roversfan99]

Just now, Uddersfelt Blue said:

As my friend suggested yesterday, maybe it’s time to put Lenihan back into midfield. When Williams is fit again of course.

 

He was struggling to dislodge Lowe and Akpan when he broke through in midfield. Not very good on the ball, his assets are his bravery and his ability to win headers, he is very much a centre back, just in terms of quality, far too rash to be a top 6 quality one.

[Roverinbelfast]

Your every post dosnt half get scrutinised chaddy. Even when you are 100% correct people try to call you out. Bowyer got the job after a period of much longer than four games, and was widely wanted by the supporters and put a small amount of normality and a sence of stability back around the club. Hard to believe someone would even agrue otherwise. 

[DE.]

1 hour ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Watching the goals again I thought their first showed Lenihan’s biggest weakness: he got suckered into following his man going short but then overran him! That same dude was then free Running toward goal and duly scored. 

Back to the full game, contrary to the general view on here I wasn’t that impressed by Rothwell. His pace when he gets the ball does quicken the pulse but when he got in or near the box the end product was poor. I can remember four opportunities he had to impact the score line: 

1) After 5 mins ran into traffic in edge of the the box and lost it, Holtby maybe legged up going for the loose ball.

2) Does a good trick to beat his man, gets free to the LHS byline in the box, but the overhit cross goes out for a throw in the Riverside.

3) The 40-yard open goal effort was poor: too low and going wide anyway.

4) For the second goal he got the pass in space overlapping on the left, but took too many touches with that stuttering run of his so the shot was blocked by the defender’s boot an inch away from the ball. Downing gets a spinning ball at tummy height, one touch to control then perfect shooting technique to whack it in.

Contrast that with Travis who did give the ball away a lot but was instrumental in the 1st and 3rd goals. And Dack, who didn’t do much but score two goals. I think Joe could do with some serious coaching for when his is around the box. A player with his ball skills and pace should be troubling the scorers a lot more.

Regarding Rothwell I imagine some of it is down to inconsistent game time, and maybe the pressure of knowing he needs to impress or he'll be out of the team again. Contrast to the likes of Bennett and Armstrong who can play badly game after game and are still constantly selected. We saw at the end of last season that when given a proper run in the team Rothwell does have an end product. His confidence has probably taken a bit of a hit with the way he's been handled so far this season. He needs a proper run in the team to really show what he can do. 

[RevidgeBlue]

I disagree with the negative review on Rothwell anyway, particularly in the first half he was the only one showing any sort of  energy or desire to try and make something happen. After the international break the lack of intensity from the rest of them was quite frightening, we looked completely demotivated as though Mowbray had finally completely lost the players with his bizarre tactics.

After being comprehensively outplayed by Barnsley in the second half I did wonder at 2-2 if the atrocious result and performance would be enough to seal Mowbray's fate. However as there doesn't seem to be any indication whatsoever he's under any pressure we're probably  better collecting the three points.

We limp on for the time being.

[Exiled in Toronto]

35 minutes ago, DE. said:

Regarding Rothwell I imagine some of it is down to inconsistent game time, and maybe the pressure of knowing he needs to impress or he'll be out of the team again. Contrast to the likes of Bennett and Armstrong who can play badly game after game and are still constantly selected. We saw at the end of last season that when given a proper run in the team Rothwell does have an end product. His confidence has probably taken a bit of a hit with the way he's been handled so far this season. He needs a proper run in the team to really show what he can do. 

I don’t think it’s anything to do with that. His whole style is a bit frenetic and hurried with plenty of touches, great in the open expanses of midfield but in the crowded box I think he needs more composure. Matt Jansen used to overdo it in the box till Souness and Saunders got hold of him. Unfortunately for Joe, Mowbray isn’t Souness.

[DE.]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

I don’t think it’s anything to do with that. His whole style is a bit frenetic and hurried with plenty of touches, great in the open expanses of midfield but in the crowded box I think he needs more composure. Matt Jansen used to overdo it in the box till Souness and Saunders got hold of him. Unfortunately for Joe, Mowbray isn’t Souness.

He'll only get better through experience - learning what to do and what not to do, and that isn't going to happen with 20 minute cameos and constantly being rotated in and out of the team. He's 25 years old in January, he isn't a youngster who needs coaching, he's a player close to his peak in terms of age who needs consistent game time. If we aren't going to give it to him then he needs to go somewhere he will get it, and I'm confident he'd produce a lot more for another team playing him regularly than in our disjointed mess of a team. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by DE.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

41 minutes ago, DE. said:

Regarding Rothwell I imagine some of it is down to inconsistent game time, and maybe the pressure of knowing he needs to impress or he'll be out of the team again. Contrast to the likes of Bennett and Armstrong who can play badly game after game and are still constantly selected. We saw at the end of last season that when given a proper run in the team Rothwell does have an end product. His confidence has probably taken a bit of a hit with the way he's been handled so far this season. He needs a proper run in the team to really show what he can do. 

When you're trying to establish yourself in the first team after getting moved up from the reserves there's a great tendency to just try to get the basics done and not try anything too clever in case it doesn't come off and you look a fool. Maybe that's what's happening with several of our players. They're playing it safe and suffering as a result. I keep banging on about the Dingles but they have a settled team and a way of playing. I reckon most of their players know that they'll be playing next week unless they have a real drop off in form so they can play in a more relaxed manner.

[DE.]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

When you're trying to establish yourself in the first team after getting moved up from the reserves there's a great tendency to just try to get the basics done and not try anything too clever in case it doesn't come off and you look a fool. Maybe that's what's happening with several of our players. They're playing it safe and suffering as a result. I keep banging on about the Dingles but they have a settled team and a way of playing. I reckon most of their players know that they'll be playing next week unless they have a real drop off in form so they can play in a more relaxed manner.

Rothwell knows he's got to produce something very special to stay in the team. Dack isn't getting dropped unless he's injured ot suspended. Holtby, Downing, Armstrong and Gallagher are all competing with him in that area of the pitch for game time. Three of those four seem to be favourites of the manager and are in the team almost all of the time irrespective of performance levels. Holtby meanwhile is an experienced, talented player who I think is only out of the team and substituted because of fitness concerns. 

I'm pretty sure if Rothwell had been playing regularly instead of Armstrong or Gallagher he'd have better stats right now than both of them. It's possible he wouldn't, but we won't know unless we give him a chance. It's not like Armstrong or Gallagher could complain if they were dropped at this point (the latter may have a case for being played out of position, mind).  

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Roverinbelfast said:

Your every post dosnt half get scrutinised chaddy. Even when you are 100% correct people try to call you out. Bowyer got the job after a period of much longer than four games, and was widely wanted by the supporters and put a small amount of normality and a sence of stability back around the club. Hard to believe someone would even agrue otherwise. 

Much longer? I've checked and it was 9 games. Hardly half a season.

We did enough to survive. Bowyer was a welcome breath of decency, normality, honesty. But i think by that point most people were just completely fed up with the chronic instability and chaos and liked Bowyer and trusted him which was why the fans welcomed his appointment when it happened.

I embraced that decision. I appreciated what he had done and recognised we needed someone trustworthy in the dugout and it worked for 2 years.

I don't believe there was a strong clamour for his appointment. If we'd have sent him back to the u21s and brought in an external manager I'm sure people would have accepted it. 

My point remains - I don't think Venkys were following some grand plan in handing the reigns to Bowyer. They were just glad someone at the club managed to step forward and get a grip on things and then when he went out to India they took a liking to him like they did with Mowbray.

That's how these people operate. They don't follow results, track records, performances, overall plans. They just want someone running it who they trust who will make the effort to go out and tell them how great they are and how lucky the club is to have them and do things their way and be grateful for the chance to do it.

Hence no quality sought after manager gets employed here because they don't need the hassle.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Loons = no plan.

[RoversClitheroe]

20 hours ago, bazza said:

Walton     6

Bennett    5

Lenihan     7

Adarabioyo  7

Bell.     5

Holtby. 6

Travis.   5

Gallagher  5

Armstrong.  5

Rothwell.  8

Dack.  8

Graham. 7

Downing  7

Buckley  5 

How you can justify Walton and Arma as high as 5 is laughable

[Herbie6590]

5 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

This was in the LET last time the annual figures were announced:

Rovers’ overdraft, currently with the State Bank of India, is up for renewal in March, with the club directors confident it will be renewed.The club’s ‘ultimate parent company’ Venkateshwara Hatcheries Pvt. Ltd ‘has sufficient funds and is willing to provide such additional financing as may be required to fund the company’ for the foreseeable future.

My point is that this won't go on forever. There is an overdraft to pay back at some point. How long is the foreseeable future ?

You may not be worried but I am.

Last accounts showed an overdraft of £12m with BoI cf a parent loan of c.£109m. The wording you quote is pretty standard “accountancy speak” in accounts of companies wholly reliant on parental support to keep trading. Nothing to see there.

The issue is (as it has been since Jack bought the club in reality) we are not profitable & we rely on our owner to keep the club afloat. The borrowing from the BoI isn’t the issue, it’s Venky’s patience that is the issue.

[Leonard Venkhater]

59 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

How you can justify Walton and Arma as high as 5 is laughable

5 out of 20?

[Crimpshrine]

1 hour ago, Herbie6590 said:

Last accounts showed an overdraft of £12m with BoI cf a parent loan of c.£109m. The wording you quote is pretty standard “accountancy speak” in accounts of companies wholly reliant on parental support to keep trading. Nothing to see there.

The issue is (as it has been since Jack bought the club in reality) we are not profitable & we rely on our owner to keep the club afloat. The borrowing from the BoI isn’t the issue, it’s Venky’s patience that is the issue.

You are absolutely right about the amounts invovled and obviously understand the financial side of things a lot better than I do.

However the figures are grim whichever way you look at them and at some point Venky's will lose patience and interest ( if they actually have any ).

What happens then ? that day will come at some point. That is what I am trying to get across in response to the original post that said 'Venky's have done their bit'.

One day we may look back and see exactly what they have done.

[Exiled in Toronto]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

He'll only get better through experience - learning what to do and what not to do, and that isn't going to happen with 20 minute cameos and constantly being rotated in and out of the team. He's 25 years old in January, he isn't a youngster who needs coaching, he's a player close to his peak in terms of age who needs consistent game time. If we aren't going to give it to him then he needs to go somewhere he will get it, and I'm confident he'd produce a lot more for another team playing him regularly than in our disjointed mess of a team. 

I prefer to go off what I see than what may or may not have happened in a parallel universe. Let’s see who piles in for him in Jan, though I think that anyone aged nearly 25, whose resume consists of League 1 Oxford and being on the fringes of a lower Championship club, should be looking at himself first and foremost for his lack of achievement thus far - barely over 50 starts and 8 league goals. At his age, Scott Sellars was the King of Ewood.

[DE.]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

I prefer to go off what I see than what may or may not have happened in a parallel universe. Let’s see who piles in for him in Jan, though I think that anyone aged nearly 25, whose resume consists of League 1 Oxford and being on the fringes of a lower Championship club, should be looking at himself first and foremost for his lack of achievement thus far - barely over 50 starts and 8 league goals. At his age, Scott Sellars was the King of Ewood.

He didn't have Tony Mowbray as his manager. 

Also parallel universe Rovers are probably far more entertaining than our worst timeline version. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

1 hour ago, Herbie6590 said:

Last accounts showed an overdraft of £12m with BoI cf a parent loan of c.£109m. The wording you quote is pretty standard “accountancy speak” in accounts of companies wholly reliant on parental support to keep trading. Nothing to see there.

The issue is (as it has been since Jack bought the club in reality) we are not profitable & we rely on our owner to keep the club afloat. The borrowing from the BoI isn’t the issue, it’s Venky’s patience that is the issue.

The peanuts overdraft on the Rovers accounts means nothing as you say.

The big money is owed to Venkys London which in turn is propped up by their global business investments and BOI. Whilst their group is doing well, no reason to think BOI will pull the plug.

Theoretically it come crashing down but not likely whilst we continue to eat chicken and need pharmacutical products.

[Exiled in Toronto]

30 minutes ago, DE. said:

He didn't have Tony Mowbray as his manager. 

Also parallel universe Rovers are probably far more entertaining than our worst timeline version. 

Sellars was a much better player. Joe could always demand a transfer. 

True. Anything is more entertaining than yesterday’s dross.

[DE.]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

Sellars was a much better player. Joe could always demand a transfer. 

True. Anything is more entertaining than yesterday’s dross.

I'm certainly not saying Rothwell is some kind of superstar - I just don't think he could do worse than Armstrong or Gallagher on the flanks. We saw glimpses of genuinely exciting play from him last season, and a few flashes this season too. I'd just like him to get a solid run of games for us all to get a better judgement. 

[Wegerleswiggle]

2 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I prefer to go off what I see than what may or may not have happened in a parallel universe. Let’s see who piles in for him in Jan, though I think that anyone aged nearly 25, whose resume consists of League 1 Oxford and being on the fringes of a lower Championship club, should be looking at himself first and foremost for his lack of achievement thus far - barely over 50 starts and 8 league goals. At his age, Scott Sellars was the King of Ewood.

Sellars was class. Imagine him on the left and Noel on the right. The amount they could supply even Gallagher and Brereton might end up in double figures.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Wegerleswiggle said:

Sellars was class. Imagine him on the left and Noel on the right. The amount they could supply even Gallagher and Brereton might end up in double figures.

Mowbray would have them playing on their " wrong " wings were they'd be coming inside all the time.

[Wegerleswiggle]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Mowbray would have them playing on their " wrong " wings were they'd be coming inside all the time.

Or full back!

[Herbie6590]

3 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

You are absolutely right about the amounts invovled and obviously understand the financial side of things a lot better than I do.

However the figures are grim whichever way you look at them and at some point Venky's will lose patience and interest ( if they actually have any ).

What happens then ? that day will come at some point. That is what I am trying to get across in response to the original post that said 'Venky's have done their bit'.

One day we may look back and see exactly what they have done.

It’s a hellishly expensive hobby...especially when you don’t attend games or gain any discernible benefit from ownership...beats me what they get from it TBH.

At least people who run classic cars usually drive them occasionally. ?‍♂️

[Exiled in Toronto]

Just now, Herbie6590 said:

It’s a hellishly expensive hobby...especially when you don’t attend games or gain any discernible benefit from ownership...beats me what they get from it TBH.

At least people who run classic cars usually drive them occasionally. ?‍♂️

I’d be surprised if Balaji drives his 70+ cars

[Guest]

On 24/11/2019 at 00:01, Tom said:

Did you go for a brew for their second goal by any chance?

The blame for that goal for me lies on the entire defence, I don't think Walton in particular caused it but we'll agree to disagree. He does well to get down to the original cross, ends up with Lenihan in his way (who was entirely at fault for their first too), and then their man puts the ball in with his hand. Shit refereeing more than anything else personally.

Wish I had a brew though was freezing second half.