Brentford (h) - the Mowbray love in!

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

Fair play to Mowbray last night, sounds like he got the selection and formation spot on, he absolutely deserves credit for that. 

Anyone that's looking at the gap between where we are now and the play offs needs their head wobbling though. When was the last time you  thought TM got everything right? Personally I can't remember. Frankly I'd take him getting it right 50% of the time as I think we'd be a lot better off than we are now but that's another story. 

We've put runs together before under him, this could be our latest one and who knows we may even flirt with a play off place off the back of it, but I can absolutely guarantee we won't finish in the top 6 with TM as manager. He's been around too long doing the same old things and making the same old mistakes to change now. 

Cracking result though, well done the lads. 

[JacknOry]

Have to give credit to AA last night as well. He has received some criticism this season and for the most part, deservedly so. I thought he had a good game and was instrumental in the goal. First the tackle, then the run behind and cross field ball to Downing. 

Besides the goal, I thought he gave them problems throughout the game. Another night he would have bagged two goals if it were not for Raya. I also thought that he grafted defensively too and him and Nyambe worked well together down that right side for the most part. I do hope he is finally growing into this wing position because his pace can really trouble teams, simply by having that pace he prevents the oppo defence from pushing up too far. 

Him and Rothwell on the wings is probably the way to go when we are looking for fast counter attacks. 

Holtby is the one that is seemingly hard to fit in at the moment. obvious quality but doesnt offer the pace of either of those two on the wing and I have not been convinced with him in CM so far. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by JacknOry

[Nelsonthedog]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Have to give credit to AA last night as well. He has received some criticism this season and for the most part, deservedly so. I thought he had a good game and was instrumental in the goal. First the tackle, then the run behind and cross field ball to Downing. 

Besides the goal, I thought he gave them problems throughout the game. Another night he would have bagged two goals if it were not for Raya. I also thought that he grafted defensively too and him and Nyambe worked well together down that right side for the most part. I do hope he is finally growing into this wing position because his pace can really trouble teams, simply by having that pace he prevents the oppo defence from pushing up too far. 

Him and Rothwell on the wings is probably the way to go when we are looking for fast counter attacks. 

Holtby is the one that is seemingly hard to fit in at the moment. obvious quality but doesnt offer the pace of either of those two on the wing and I have not been convinced with him in CM so far. 

We don't play with wingers.. rothwell and Armstrong are wide attackers..

[rigger]

4 minutes ago, Amo said:

Enjoy it for what it is but let's not get carried away with a win at home to Brentford. Much improved team selection and performance levels. Will it be a watershed moment for Mowbray? Probably not. We've been here before. Too many false dawns. 

Is that similar to a false 9 ?

[JacknOry]

Just now, Nelsonthedog said:

We don't play with wingers.. rothwell and Armstrong are wide attackers..

Inverted wingers, inside forwards...whatever you want to call them.

[Nelsonthedog]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Inverted wingers, inside forwards...whatever you want to call them.

Just clearing up confusion, as if folk are expecting Armstrong to play like a winger(like Ripley for example), no wonder they are disappointed.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Nelsonthedog

[JacknOry]

Just now, Nelsonthedog said:

Just clearing up confusion, as if folk are expecting Armstrong to play like a winger(like Ripley for example), no wonder they are disappointed.

I don't think many would be confused. They occupy the wide forward positions. Certainly not traditional wingers in the sense of sending crosses into the box onto the heads of two centre forwards but they are there to provide the width along with the overlapping full backs.  

[Hasta]

I know it's early in the game but credit to Dack for being involved in the move in his own half, then having the instinct to get back up in support and take his goal well. That's the big hidden attribute of Dack - instinct. He wants to get the ball and score goals, and he has the instinct to find the right spaces. Look at the winner on Saturday. It wasn't a difficult chance, and he had two bites at it, but he peeled away into space and gambled that somehow the ball would come to the back post. That's what other players we have don't do and that's why he's so dangerous, not because he can nutmeg someone on the half way line.  

Downing is just a proper footballer. When people like Johnson and Whittingham have lost 20% of their ability with age, their ability was only ever top of the championship evel in their prime, so they now struggle. Not so with Downing, You can see why he played at the top level despite not having any standout attribute. After the debacle of the likes of Murphy, Fowler, Brown etc.., SD is restoring my faith in signing old pros at the tail end of their career.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Hasta

[Amo]

With any luck, Evans put himself in the shop window last night.

He's had his standout game of the season, which usually precedes the calls for us to keep hold of him. Groundhog BRFCS ?

[JacknOry]

6 minutes ago, Hasta said:

I know it's early in the game but credit to Dack for being involved in the move in his own half, then having the instinct to get back up in support and take his goal well. That's the big hidden attribute of Dack - instinct. He wants to get the ball and score goals, and he has the instinct to find the right spaces. Look at the winner on Saturday. It wasn't a difficult chance, and he had two bites at it, but he peeled away intand space and gambled than somehow the ball would come to the back post. That's what other players we have don't do and that's why he's so dangerous, not because he can nutmeg someone on the half way line.  

Downing is just a proper footballer. When people like Johnson and Whittingham have lost 20% of their ability with age, their ability was only ever top of the championship ship level in their prime so they now struggle. Not so with Downing, You can see why he played at the top level despite not having any standout attribute. After the debacle of the likes of Murphy, Fowler, Brown etc.., SD is restoring my faith in signing old pros at the tail end of their career.

I dunno, he has a fantastic left peg, is a great crosser of the ball and is an intelligent footballer. He had a lot more pace about him when younger too and was more a flying winger (am I allowed to say that?). Certainly the best older signing we have made since probably Tugay and Salgado. 

Agree with the rest though. Peter Whittingham (now same age at 35) could not make an impact in a L1 promotion team at 33 years old. Is now still without a club since leaving us. Downing still doing it at a midtable Championship club.

Edited November 28, 2019 by JacknOry

[roversfan99]

50 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I feel that there's justification in altering the line-up. Each game is different and Stoke are probably still the most physical side in this division. Danny Batth, Lee Gregory, Nick Powell - they've got a very direct approach. We need to be able to compete physically. Need to retain the Evans &Travis ball winning midfield for me though, and Downing (the 35 winger) is twice the left back Bell is. Tough one because last night is near our perfect XI, but Stoke an entirely different beast and it would be naive to try and go with the exact same tactic and expect it to work. But you never know.

It makes no sense to keep altering the line up, we have to strive for consistency. We need to focus more on what we are good at. Obviously be mindful of specific opposition strengths and weaknesses but look at what we are good at. Try to develop a partnership between the 2 centre backs. Apparently Evans and Travis partnership has played together 11 times and we have from those games 25 points according to the Lancashire Telegraph, as you mentioned they have to play. Dack and Graham is the strikeforce that works, have partnerships right through the spine. Rothwell and Armstrong running at full backs. 

[jim mk2]

Downing is still playing top class football at 35 and looks like he can carry on for s few more years yet. Says everything about hid quality as a player and his love of the game. 

[philipl]

Just seen the goal- fabulous!

Will just repeat what I posted earlier. When I saw the team, my heart leapt because it looked like we were fielding the strongest team we could in the circumstances with players where they could be most effective.

Also underlines how many points have been dropped by the team sheet and tactics diagrams this season.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

Round pegs in round holes. Its only taken Mowbray 18 months to get there.

This reads like you believe he will stick with the round pegs in round holes approach? I'd wait to see the line up for the next game to be honest..

[tomphil]

There is justification for slight changes now and again as Mowbray says that's why you have a squad and why you want some versatility. Here though it's been clear to a blind chap on a galloping horse the amount of swapping and changing game to game and even in game has been detrimental. Yes occasionally it works but not enough to justify it every game.

You need a good regular spine to the team to carry that off anyway and he's never created that again at this level yet.  You get no balance and no rhythm unless you set up like last night with players in their familiar roles.  

The big striker wide/wing idea whoever is deployed there needs putting away for good its never really worked and never will unless your going 3 up top. We looked so much better without it and all a lot of disgruntled fans will ask is pick the best Rovers team suited to Rovers and drill it into them.  Stop using the opposition as an excuse to keep rotating the squad to keep everyone happy and justify the size of it.

Prune it if need be and put the money into quality and youth starting at the back and not a load of indentikit mids and wide strikers.

Edited November 28, 2019 by tomphil

[rigger]

44 minutes ago, Hasta said:

I know it's early in the game but credit to Dack for being involved in the move in his own half, then having the instinct to get back up in support and take his goal well. That's the big hidden attribute of Dack - instinct. He wants to get the ball and score goals, and he has the instinct to find the right spaces. Look at the winner on Saturday. It wasn't a difficult chance, and he had two bites at it, but he peeled away into space and gambled that somehow the ball would come to the back post. That's what other players we have don't do and that's why he's so dangerous, not because he can nutmeg someone on the half way line.  

Downing is just a proper footballer. When people like Johnson and Whittingham have lost 20% of their ability with age, their ability was only ever top of the championship evel in their prime, so they now struggle. Not so with Downing, You can see why he played at the top level despite not having any standout attribute. After the debacle of the likes of Murphy, Fowler, Brown etc.., SD is restoring my faith in signing old pros at the tail end of their career.

What I noticed was the amount of times downing won possession by not touching the ball. The experience showed when he just allows a ball to run out for a throw.

[Ewood Ace]

The best we have played this season and with probably our best 11 on the pitch (although you could make an argument for Holtby over Armstrong). At last Mowbray decided to bite the bullet and pick his best right back over his favourite and Nyambe put in a very good performance against a very good player in Benrahma. Downing was his steady self at full back, a danger going forward and solid in defence although he wasn't over worked in that regard.

Evans back in the side and the work he did when Brentford were in possession was excellent but his use of the ball when he had was terrible. Rothwell fantastic, without a doubt the most exciting player at the club it really is criminal how under used he has been since he was signed. Also what a difference Graham makes to our team, still by a mile our best striker. 

Let's hope Mowbray goes with the same again on Saturday and that this could finally be the time where he realises his best 11. 

[tomphil]

He should be saying to Evans play like that every week and you'll start that's why you are in the side now. These hiding as a passenger days should be over or his career here is. 

Saying he feels he has to leave him out to get him angry so he'll put a shift in shows the mentality of that lad i'm afraid. He's had it far too easy a ride here in the past.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

The best we have played this season and with probably our best 11 on the pitch (although you could make an argument for Holtby over Armstrong). At last Mowbray decided to bite the bullet and pick his best right back over his favourite and Nyambe put in a very good performance against a very good player in Benrahma. Downing was his steady self at full back, a danger going forward and solid in defence although he wasn't over worked in that regard.

Evans back in the side and the work he did when Brentford were in possession was excellent but his use of the ball when he had was terrible. Rothwell fantastic, without a doubt the most exciting player at the club it really is criminal how under used he has been since he was signed. Also what a difference Graham makes to our team, still by a mile our best striker. 

Let's hope Mowbray goes with the same again on Saturday and that this could finally be the time where he realises his best 11. 

It's simple really - if you were a left winger who would you rather play against -  Nyambe or Bennett ? For me it would be Bennett every time.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

37 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Downing is still playing top class football at 35 and looks like he can carry on for s few more years yet. Says everything about hid quality as a player and his love of the game. 

That'll be because he's looked after himself over the years. He needs to be having a word with Dack about life style choices.

[arbitro]

Just now, rigger said:

What I noticed was the amount of times downing won possession by not touching the ball. The experience showed when he just allows a ball to run out for a throw.

One minor incident summed him up last night. Late in the second half when we were under the cosh the ball was knocked wide about head height and a Brentford player behind him on the touchline. Most of our players would have headed it out and given possession to Brentford with a throw in. Downing went to head it, feigned and the ball went out for our throw. His experience shone through but that incident epitomised his game. We must have took a minute to retrieve the ball and get the ball back into play.

I'd be happy for him to become our first choice left back.

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

I dunno, he has a fantastic left peg, is a great crosser of the ball and is an intelligent footballer. He had a lot more pace about him when younger too and was more a flying winger (am I allowed to say that?). Certainly the best older signing we have made since probably Tugay and Salgado. 

That probably came across more derogatory about him than I intended. He was (and is) very, very good at a lot of things. However he didn't have a standout world class quality like a Duff or a Beckham, despite the fact he probably had a more all round game than players like that. He is a player you probably appreciate him more when you see him week in, week out rather than on a highlights reel. As you say, a very intelligent footballer and you can see how he came to have 35 caps when he was younger.

[DE.]

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

There's only one small problem with following the 'Villa model' - we haven't got a Dean Smith.

Well, that and we aren't paying half of our team 50k+ p/w. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by DE.

[Amo]

I know it's preaching to the choir but it can't be overstated enough that we need continuity and stability in the starting XI. Play your best players in their best positions, play to your strengths, it's not exactly rocket science.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Amo

[LDRover]

Yeah it's not rocket science now. If fit that 11 starts the next game and take it from there. No need for huge changes based on the opposition, let them worry about what we can do.