The Scott Wharton Conundrum

[Guest]

Another year out on loan, perhaps the most successful, 4 goals in his last 5 from centre-back! He's had loan spells at Cambridge, Lincoln, Bury and Northampton since the age of 19. Funny stat is that he got a League Winners medal with Bury for League Two in 2018/19, but also a runners up medal with Lincoln for the same league in the same season! Having played 15 and 11 games for each club respectively.

Just what do we do with a lad like Scott Wharton? He's due back at the end of the season, he'll be 22.
Do we think he's good enough to be a squad player for us? Or is it simply too little too late?

[BlackburnEnd75]

Bring him back in January and send him on loan to a league 1 side

[JacknOry]

I think time is running out for him. He would at least need to prove he can cut it L1 out on loan next season.  

Magloire who is younger at 20 went straight to L1 - unfortunately injury cut that short. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by JacknOry

[Wegerleswiggle]

I think out of the 2 Magloire has more potential. I would bring Wharton back in January and have him training with the first team and see where he is at.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 hours ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

Bring him back in January and send him on loan to a league 1 side

That's dependent on a League 1 club wanting him. For all the plaudits the under 23s have gotten in the last couple of years, there hasn't been a queue of League 1 clubs looking to sign them on loan. 

[tomphil]

If he's going ok, getting games and notching a few leave him where he is. A full seasons football will do him more good than sitting on a bench every week. 

I'd prefer us to get in experienced back up at RB and CH.

[DE.]

Unless we get relegated I doubt we'll see Wharton as a regular CB here.

[LeftWinger]

Jack O'Connell was almost 21 when we let him leave after years of going out on loan.

He's a Premier League regular now.

Edited December 4, 2019 by LeftWinger
He was almost 21, not 20 as I first put.

[Sparks Rover]

He's ahead of both Del and Bennet at the back so I'd put him on the bench and give him the odd start to have a look

[Guest]

Weird one, Grayson much better on the ball, Magloire much more speed based game... but Wharton out of the three is probably the best defender in terms of defending, tackling, upper body strength etc..

Much more of a Paul Downing, Elliott Ward, Grant Hanley type, rather than Tosin Adarabioyo or Charlie Mulgrew. Depends what Mowbray wants to go with defensively, but we do need someone. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

10 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

He's ahead of both Del and Bennet at the back so I'd put him on the bench and give him the odd start to have a look

Hes not ahead of Williams at CB, nor should he be. Bennett covers right back, Wharton doesn't play there.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JoeH said:

Weird one, Grayson much better on the ball, Magloire much more speed based game... but Wharton out of the three is probably the best defender in terms of defending, tackling, upper body strength etc..

Much more of a Paul Downing, Elliott Ward, Grant Hanley type, rather than Tosin Adarabioyo or Charlie Mulgrew. Depends what Mowbray wants to go with defensively, but we do need someone. 

Why use him as an example? One of the worst centre halves we have had in memory and that's saying a lot when we had Greer as well. 

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Weird one, Grayson much better on the ball, Magloire much more speed based game... but Wharton out of the three is probably the best defender in terms of defending, tackling, upper body strength etc..

Much more of a Paul Downing, Elliott Ward, Grant Hanley type, rather than Tosin Adarabioyo or Charlie Mulgrew. Depends what Mowbray wants to go with defensively, but we do need someone. 

Grant hanley ?  That's a big call i'd have had him down more as another Lenihen in the making but tough and rugged, good at the basics is what we need really. If that's how he's shaping up he might do ok.

 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Why use him as an example? One of the worst centre halves we have had in memory and that's saying a lot when we had Greer as well. 

Not in terms of quality, purely in terms of playing style. A defender who didn't get forward, play passes forward etc.. just defending. Like Downing, Hanley and others we've had over the years.

Edited December 4, 2019 by JoeH

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JoeH said:

Not in terms of quality, purely in terms of playing style. A defender who didn't get forward, play passes forward etc.. just defending. Like Downing, Hanley and others we've had over the years.

I would put Ward and Greer in a category all by themselves 

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I would put Ward and Greer in a category all by themselves 

Haha..Weirdly, Greer had been at Rovers years before as well. In his previous spell, he would have hardly made nan appearance...

[Bigdoggsteel]

34 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Haha..Weirdly, Greer had been at Rovers years before as well. In his previous spell, he would have hardly made nan appearance...

He made plenty of nan appearances the 2nd time around ? and shes 93. She could probably still move quicker though 

Ya, it shows how far we have fallen. Paul Gallgher, who is far better than Greer couldn't really even nail down a place first time around

Edited December 4, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Sparks Rover]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Hes not ahead of Williams at CB, nor should he be. Bennett covers right back, Wharton doesn't play there.

 

In your opinion.   The less we see of Del the more wins we will get....no benno,  no Del and look how we are doing.....how many games have you seen Wharton in the last 12 months?

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

In your opinion.   The less we see of Del the more wins we will get....no benno,  no Del and look how we are doing.....how many games have you seen Wharton in the last 12 months?

I haven't seen him play much in League 2 no, you getting to many Northampton games yourself? 

Saying we do better without Williams and Bennett (who is actually still featuring in case you missed that), is one thing, saying that Wharton should be ahead of them is a very different thing. Whatever about Williams, he doesn't even play in the same position as Bennett. 

Sit this next one out man ?

[Sparks Rover]

16 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I haven't seen him play much in League 2 no, you getting to many Northampton games yourself? 

Saying we do better without Williams and Bennett (who is actually still featuring in case you missed that), is one thing, saying that Wharton should be ahead of them is a very different thing. Whatever about Williams, he doesn't even play in the same position as Bennett. 

Sit this next one out man ?

Give the lad a chance, we might be surprised....you're writing him off without actually seeing much of him.  Tony knows best though.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Give the lad a chance, we might be surprised....you're writing him off without actually seeing much of him.  Tony knows best though.

Have you seen him play in the last year? 

I'm all for giving him a chance, but not if it weakens the team. 

Not sure he does know best all the time to be fair  

[Sparks Rover]

He's our player, hes 22 now so he needs throwing in to see...maybe the cup game away at Brum that type of game....I just feel that he could be another o'Connell and tony has been wrong about young lads 

[simongarnerisgod]

suprised wharton has never been given a chance at rovers tbh,especially as we are so short on defensive cover and williams being an accident waiting to happen wherever you put him,got an inkling tony does`nt care much for young lads,in his world they are to fresh and hav`nt been mowbrayed(a process that involves them being removed of all creavity and positivity)he finds players like bennett and armstrong easy to manage because they hang on to his every word

[bluebruce]

I feel that our use of Wharton has probably done him a disservice. The level of League Two sides he has played for (promotion winners) after five separate loans down to that level, I don't know how we've failed to get him a League One loan this season, if not last.

Ultimately, whilst he's turning out in League Two, he isn't going to get anywhere near our set-up. We really need players to be earning spurs at least a league below us. We can't expect a two league jump out of him at 22 really. Not in a position where you need experience and can cost you games in a heartbeat.

I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, Raya played in the Championship for us a bit in the same season he was on loan in the Conference. But that's generally more when you have a very young star in the making and you just want to blood them in men's football a bit. He was only 17 if I recall, and it took until three seasons later to become a full regular, during which he wasn't loaned out again because he was on the fringe.

Wharton played a couple of times for us in the Championship the same season he had his first loan. Then we got relegated and probably all expected to see him break through that year. He never got the chance beyond two cup games (and I seem to remember thinking he should have been given it at one point due to how we were defending) and went back out on loan. He was in and around the squad though, and you'd think a fringe player for the best team in League One (fuck Wigan) would be able to get a few games for a lower-end League One team.

I dunno what we play at with our loan arrangements. We seem to fuck it up a lot more than other clubs. We usually send players two levels or less below where we are, meaning we'll never know if they're ready to threaten places at our level. Even then, we sometimes manage to land them at a club where they don't want to play them much or at all. I feel like we don't do enough research, ask these clubs the right questions, or put out enough feelers.

In short though, it's hard to see Wharton making it at the club now. I feel like the only real chance is if, as another poster suggested, we recall him and send him to League One. However, that might not be best for the player himself, as if it doesn't work out for him there he might miss the chance to play games and develop for when he leaves us. I think we need to decide whether we still think he can make it here, and if we think there's a reasonable chance, get him to League One. Otherwise leave him be.

[bluebruce]

We also need to take into consideration where any attempts to strengthen the defence will leave him.