Wigan Athletic (H) - Monday Night Football (urgh..)

[Leonard Venkhater]

56 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It was not brought up by myself, but the argument still stands that we should have given it our best shot to win a league title. If it is nit picking to question surrendering a potential league title, when promotion was guaranteed regardless, then yes I am nit picking. 

I have never argued that it we are not a better team or have a better manager than them, all of which is irrelevant to an 18 month old debate about the importance of league titles which I feel my point is still valid on.

This is now. That was then and, make no bones about it, my lads and I were pretty peeved that we didn't go for that title!

[47er]

Preston and Wigan-----the two fixture that we nearly always mess up.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, 47er said:

Preston and Wigan-----the two fixture that we nearly always mess up.

At times like this, I keep reminding myself that bygones really are bygones...so last years embarrassment should have no bearing on Monday lol

[47er]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

At times like this, I keep reminding myself that bygones really are bygones...so last years embarrassment should have no bearing on Monday lol

If only....!

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Nit picking to not try and win a league title? We arent a club that wins league titles enough to dismiss the chance of winning them at any level. Where we are a year and a half in advance is pretty irrelevant to whether I wanted to win that title.

You still moaning over the league 1 title. Promotion was the aim. Mowbray achieved his aim that season. 

Its 18 months ago. Move on pal

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You still moaning over the league 1 title. Promotion was the aim. Mowbray achieved his aim that season. 

Its 18 months ago. Move on pal

Are you not allowed to continue once your initial aim has been achieved? Its ok to forfeit the chance of a title because that wasnt part of the minimum expectation? 

I didnt even bring it up.

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Are you not allowed to continue once your initial aim has been achieved? Its ok to forfeit the chance of a title because that wasnt part of the minimum expectation? 

I didnt even bring it up.

Are you really that bothered about the league 1 title? 

I'm wasnt bothered whether we won the title or not. Wanted promotion. That's it. Look at their teams who are still there who was in premiership 10 years ago

[J*B]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Are you really that bothered about the league 1 title? 

I'm wasnt bothered whether we won the title or not. Wanted promotion. That's it. Look at their teams who are still there who was in premiership 10 years ago

Would you have preferred to come first or second?

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, J*B said:

Would you have preferred to come first or second?

Not assed. 

Promotion achieved either way

[J*B]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Not assed. 

Promotion achieved either way

So it wouldn’t have mattered if we finished sixth and got promoted by a freak 1-0 home win through a goal that was actually offside in the semi finals, then a 1-0 own goal in a game where we played terribly at Wembley? 

Come on Chaddy, that’s ridiculous and you know it. It would have been nicer to finish first rather than second, but second was still good enough. 

[Tom]

With all due respect Chaddy.......

Theres not a chance in hell you wouldn’t have been delighted to have won the league

Yes getting promoted was key but winning the league would have been the perfect scenario.

That 2 goal lead thrown away to them and the Charlton game were missed opportunities.

[unsall]

42 minutes ago, J*B said:

So it wouldn’t have mattered if we finished sixth and got promoted by a freak 1-0 home win through a goal that was actually offside in the semi finals, then a 1-0 own goal in a game where we played terribly at Wembley? 

Come on Chaddy, that’s ridiculous and you know it. It would have been nicer to finish first rather than second, but second was still good enough. 

Ask the question to any Sunderland fan, think it might be promotion, end of,  and whether it’s first,second or through the play offs they couldn’t care less. 

Don’t think TM got enough credit for getting back first time, plenty of clubs took years to get back.

[roversfan99]

Just now, unsall said:

Ask the question to any Sunderland fan, think it might be promotion, end of,  and whether it’s first,second or through the play offs they couldn’t care less. 

Don’t think TM got enough credit for getting back first time, plenty of clubs took years to get back.

The answer of promotion is not valid to the question asked. Promoted was in the bank, secured, and was celebrated with Mowbray rightfully given plenty of praise. The comparison to Sunderland isnt correct because they have been festering for more than a year and crucially they havent already secured promotion.

You can be grateful and happy about promotion whilst also criticising the manager for publically dismissing and thus acting upon the potential of winning a league title. The 2 are not mutually exclusive.

We do not regularly win titles or even compete for them, so to dismiss it as irrelevant is bizarre.

Mowbray did well overall to achieve the minimum expectation, and was rightly celebrated. That doesnt mean that he was justified for not going 100% for the title once promotion had been secured. The bug bear is not even that we didnt win the league, its that it wasnt seen as important.

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, J*B said:

So it wouldn’t have mattered if we finished sixth and got promoted by a freak 1-0 home win through a goal that was actually offside in the semi finals, then a 1-0 own goal in a game where we played terribly at Wembley? 

Come on Chaddy, that’s ridiculous and you know it. It would have been nicer to finish first rather than second, but second was still good enough. 

Go and ask Sunderland fans if they would be bothered or not after the lost in final last season to Charlton. 

As long as we got promoted out of league 1 at the 1st attempt is all that mattered to me. Look at how long is taken Leeds or Sheff Utd to get out of there. Or go and have look.at the mess Sunderland are in after failing to achieve promotion last season. 

We got promoted from that league. End of! 

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The answer of promotion is not valid to the question asked. Promoted was in the bank, secured, and was celebrated with Mowbray rightfully given plenty of praise. The comparison to Sunderland isnt correct because they have been festering for more than a year and crucially they havent already secured promotion.

You can be grateful and happy about promotion whilst also criticising the manager for publically dismissing and thus acting upon the potential of winning a league title. The 2 are not mutually exclusive.

We do not regularly win titles or even compete for them, so to dismiss it as irrelevant is bizarre.

Mowbray did well overall to achieve the minimum expectation, and was rightly celebrated. That doesnt mean that he was justified for not going 100% for the title once promotion had been secured. The bug bear is not even that we didnt win the league, its that it wasnt seen as important.

Mowbray achieved his aim for the season. 

It isn't important to some of us. 

Go and ask Sunderland or Blackpool fans whether they which way they could go and get promote this season

[AllRoverAsia]

DoF rules, the rest of us have no useful opinion .......... apparently.

SSDD

[philipl]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Nit picking to not try and win a league title? We arent a club that wins league titles enough to dismiss the chance of winning them at any level. Where we are a year and a half in advance is pretty irrelevant to whether I wanted to win that title.

We did try to win the League One title.

I can think of five games towards the end of that season when we had promotion winners good fortune.

Quite simply our luck ran out at Charlton. We were comfortably the better side but lost unlike at Plymouth where we deservedly lost to the better side on the day who were enjoying a purple patch.

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

We did try to win the League One title.

I can think of five games towards the end of that season when we had promotion winners good fortune.

Quite simply our luck ran out at Charlton. We were comfortably the better side but lost unlike at Plymouth where we deservedly lost to the better side on the day who were enjoying a purple patch.

This is simply untrue. The Charlton game was where Mowbray decided not to go for first place and instead to meddle.

He dropped Graham, Dack, Bennett, Williams, Conway and Raya, and brought in Samuel, Payne, Bell, Caddis(!), Downing and Leutwiler (!!).

Our luck didn’t run out, Mowbray brought in too many inferior players and rested (?) his best ones at a time when they only had two games of the season left and should have been well up for it.

Such a big build up was made about that game as well, screens at Ewood and the concourse happy to take coin from the fans, and he did that. Football is about moments. Yes, we were promoted but once that was done instead of “trying to win the League One title” Mowbray decided he had done enough. He should have personally reimbursed the match ticket of every fan that travelled.

[philipl]

3 minutes ago, Stuart said:

This is simply untrue. The Charlton game was where Mowbray decided not to go for first place and instead to meddle.

He dropped Graham, Dack, Bennett, Williams, Conway and Raya, and brought in Samuel, Payne, Bell, Caddis(!), Downing and Leutwiler (!!).

Our luck didn’t run out, Mowbray brought in too many inferior players and rested (?) his best ones at a time when they only had two games of the season left and should have been well up for it.

Such a big build up was made about that game as well, screens at Ewood and the concourse happy to take coin from the fans, and he did that. Football is about moments. Yes, we were promoted but once that was done instead of “trying to win the League One title” Mowbray decided he had done enough. He should have personally reimbursed the match ticket of every fan that travelled.

The players he rested were clearly suffering from knocks and exhaustion by the end of the previous game.

It still doesn't obviate the fact the team at Charlton had by far the best of the game. We got thrashed at Plymouth, not at Charlton. 

[Stuart]

Just now, philipl said:

The players he rested were clearly suffering from knocks and exhaustion by the end of the previous game.

It still doesn't obviate the fact the team at Charlton had by far the best of the game. We got thrashed at Plymouth, not at Charlton. 

2 games left Phil, with promotion secured.

Imagine players challenging in the Champions League final after a long season and the manager telling them they aren’t playing. Tired doesn’t cut it at that point. The manager didn’t care about winning the title, it’s that simple. That same way Chaddy doesn’t care about it now. Let’s not pretend otherwise and insult people’s intelligence.

[chaddyrovers]

21 minutes ago, Stuart said:

That same way Chaddy doesn’t care about it now. 

I didn't care at the time if you look back either Stuart. So my view was same then. 

Think if I remember correctly me and Stuart discussed the same issue

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

This is simply untrue. The Charlton game was where Mowbray decided not to go for first place and instead to meddle.

He dropped Graham, Dack, Bennett, Williams, Conway and Raya, and brought in Samuel, Payne, Bell, Caddis(!), Downing and Leutwiler (!!).

Our luck didn’t run out, Mowbray brought in too many inferior players and rested (?) his best ones at a time when they only had two games of the season left and should have been well up for it.

Such a big build up was made about that game as well, screens at Ewood and the concourse happy to take coin from the fans, and he did that. Football is about moments. Yes, we were promoted but once that was done instead of “trying to win the League One title” Mowbray decided he had done enough. He should have personally reimbursed the match ticket of every fan that travelled.

We were unlucky not to beat Charlton. 

Let it go lads...

It's bizzare trawling over this from our current, lofty position 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

This is simply untrue. The Charlton game was where Mowbray decided not to go for first place and instead to meddle.

He dropped Graham, Dack, Bennett, Williams, Conway and Raya, and brought in Samuel, Payne, Bell, Caddis(!), Downing and Leutwiler (!!).

Our luck didn’t run out, Mowbray brought in too many inferior players and rested (?) his best ones at a time when they only had two games of the season left and should have been well up for it.

Such a big build up was made about that game as well, screens at Ewood and the concourse happy to take coin from the fans, and he did that. Football is about moments. Yes, we were promoted but once that was done instead of “trying to win the League One title” Mowbray decided he had done enough. He should have personally reimbursed the match ticket of every fan that travelled.

???

Christ...

Edited December 18, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Guest]

Blackburn Home Averages (from 11 games):
52.9% Possession
76.5% Pass Accuracy
22.4 Aerial Duels Won
15 Goals
13.3 Average Shots Per Game
14 Yellow Cards 0 Red

Wigan Away Averages (from 11 games):
45.7% Possession
68.1% Pass Accuracy
27.8 Aerial Duels Won
9 Goals
11.2 Average Shots Per Game
27 Yellow Cards 1 Red

Looking at that Aerial Duels column, maybe Adam Armstrong starting up-front could be a good idea? Just a thought.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

This is simply untrue. The Charlton game was where Mowbray decided not to go for first place and instead to meddle.

He dropped Graham, Dack, Bennett, Williams, Conway and Raya, and brought in Samuel, Payne, Bell, Caddis(!), Downing and Leutwiler (!!).

Our luck didn’t run out, Mowbray brought in too many inferior players and rested (?) his best ones at a time when they only had two games of the season left and should have been well up for it.

Such a big build up was made about that game as well, screens at Ewood and the concourse happy to take coin from the fans, and he did that. Football is about moments. Yes, we were promoted but once that was done instead of “trying to win the League One title” Mowbray decided he had done enough. He should have personally reimbursed the match ticket of every fan that travelled.

Correct. (You may be surprised to see me agreeing with you!) Caddis as wing back? Jack Payne up front and Danny Graham on the bench? I think Dack was genuinely injured but most players were rested and played in the Oxford game which was essentially a promotion party. Whats the harm to ask them to go again just 2 more times and try to win a league title, and how have we got to the stage where a potential league title can be dismissed!

This argument that "ask if Sunderland fans care whether they win the league" is a totally strawman argument based on an inaccurate comparison. They are nowhere near being promoted, we had already been promoted. If they secured promotion with 2 games left theyd still want to win the league if possible.

For me the main problem was not even that we didnt win the league. I think it is certainly unfair on Mowbray to not give him all of the deserved credit for the promotion and an overall successful season, but people seem to be taking the criticism as if they are saying that the whole season was a failure because we didnt win the league. The problem was that once promotion was fulfilled, Mowbray downplayed its importance, as if it didnt matter. At least to some of us, it did.

Our aim is top 6 this season so I presume if we secure a play off place with a few games to go but 2nd place was still obtainable we could still down tools at that point because our objective has been achieved.

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Blackburn Home Averages (from 11 games):
52.9% Possession
76.5% Pass Accuracy
22.4 Aerial Duels Won
15 Goals
13.3 Average Shots Per Game
14 Yellow Cards 0 Red

Wigan Away Averages (from 11 games):
45.7% Possession
68.1% Pass Accuracy
27.8 Aerial Duels Won
9 Goals
11.2 Average Shots Per Game
27 Yellow Cards 1 Red

Looking at that Aerial Duels column, maybe Adam Armstrong starting up-front could be a good idea? Just a thought.

No we should stick to what has been getting us results, Armstrong will spend half of the game offside if we put him up front.