Wigan Athletic (H) - Monday Night Football (urgh..)

[Guest]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

No we should stick to what has been getting us results, Armstrong will spend half of the game offside if we put him up front.

We played 4-4-2 against Bristol City, with Ben Brereton playing up top with Sam Gallagher. Little bit naive to say "stick with what's been getting us results"... what is it exactly that you're referring to?

[roversfan99]

Just now, JoeH said:

We played 4-4-2 against Bristol City, with Ben Brereton playing up top with Sam Gallagher. Little bit naive to say "stick with what's been getting us results"... what is it exactly that you're referring to?

Having something of a focal point in attack, Graham has been important and scored v Swansea and should be reinstated with Dack. But Armstrong has mainly played from the right was more the point I was making. I am not totally comfortable with tailoring our team selection at home to Wigan so much based on our opponents.

Edited December 18, 2019 by roversfan99

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

2 games left Phil, with promotion secured.

Imagine players challenging in the Champions League final after a long season and the manager telling them they aren’t playing. Tired doesn’t cut it at that point. The manager didn’t care about winning the title, it’s that simple. That same way Chaddy doesn’t care about it now. Let’s not pretend otherwise and insult people’s intelligence.

Agreed. I have got over it, but we shouldn't pretend. Denial, selective memory and all that!

Four of us travelled down to London and we were more than disappointed, when we saw that team selection.

Maybe, we would have understood, if TM's reasons were explained.

Of course, once you have won the Premiership, people can argue over the prestige of a Third Division Championship etc.

Well, it certainly mattered to me in 1975, as it did to my own kids, who had suffered all the Venky crap, when they could and should have been enjoying the JW long term legacy!

[AllRoverAsia]

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

This is simply untrue. The Charlton game was where Mowbray decided not to go for first place and instead to meddle.

He dropped Graham, Dack, Bennett, Williams, Conway and Raya, and brought in Samuel, Payne, Bell, Caddis(!), Downing and Leutwiler (!!).

Our luck didn’t run out, Mowbray brought in too many inferior players and rested (?) his best ones at a time when they only had two games of the season left and should have been well up for it.

Such a big build up was made about that game as well, screens at Ewood and the concourse happy to take coin from the fans, and he did that. Football is about moments. Yes, we were promoted but once that was done instead of “trying to win the League One title” Mowbray decided he had done enough. He should have personally reimbursed the match ticket of every fan that travelled.

Well said, Stuart.

Our manager then embarrassed Rovers by rubbishing the value of coming first, He did that ATE, after the event, IMO as a bit of arse covering.

To those who are saying look at Wigan now, I will just say WTF has that to do with anything.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

Agreed. I have got over it, but we shouldn't pretend. Denial, selective memory and all that!

Four of us travelled down to London and we were more than disappointed, when we saw that team selection.

Maybe, we would have understood, if TM's reasons were explained.

Of course, once you have won the Premiership, people can argue over the prestige of a Third Division Championship etc.

Well, it certainly mattered to me in 1975, as it did to my own kids, who had suffered all the Venky crap, when they could and should have been enjoying the JW long term legacy!

Just this morning on YouTube I watched a quite recent 30 minute video on Sheffield United and the Wilder effect.

Early into it, there is a Fan talking about their dark days and how proud he still is of when they won the Fourth Division title. Its in the record books, with the word WINNERS.

 

[arbitro]

24 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Agreed. I have got over it, but we shouldn't pretend. Denial, selective memory and all that!

Four of us travelled down to London and we were more than disappointed, when we saw that team selection.

Maybe, we would have understood, if TM's reasons were explained.

Of course, once you have won the Premiership, people can argue over the prestige of a Third Division Championship etc.

Well, it certainly mattered to me in 1975, as it did to my own kids, who had suffered all the Venky crap, when they could and should have been enjoying the JW long term legacy!

Your last sentence sums it up for me Leonard. The barren years our generation suffered in the years preceding the title win in 1975 were pretty much banished as the youngsters lead the team out each with individual letters spelling out CHAMPIONS on that Monday night against Wrexham. I think it must be a generational thing with fans not being bothered about winning the title and settling for runners up. 

Surely there would have also been a commercial benefit through merchandise bearing the words Champions.

Before anybody comes back I know promotion was the aim and it was achieved but the cherry on the cake would have been getting presented with the League One champions trophy after the Oxford match in front of a packed Ewood.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, arbitro said:

Your last sentence sums it up for me Leonard. The barren years our generation suffered in the years preceding the title win in 1975 were pretty much banished as the youngsters lead the team out each with individual letters spelling out CHAMPIONS on that Monday night against Wrexham. I think it must be a generational thing with fans not being bothered about winning the title and settling for runners up. 

Surely there would have also been a commercial benefit through merchandise bearing the words Champions.

Before anybody comes back I know promotion was the aim and it was achieved but the cherry on the cake would have been getting presented with the League One champions trophy after the Oxford match in front of a packed Ewood.

I lived on that CHAMPIONS moment for years.

The job was done AND we should have gone all out for the title. Either/ or is just a false ...er..dichotomy...there ..said it!

By the way, Arbitro, you were one of the only sober people I saw that day at Charlton!

[arbitro]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

I lived on that CHAMPIONS moment for years.

The job was done AND we should have gone all out for the title. Either/ or is just a false ...er..dichotomy...there ..said it!

By the way, Arbitro, you were one of the only sober people I saw that day at Charlton!

Yes Leonard there were some sorry sights that day. I honestly don't know how some can enjoy a football match in such a state.

[Parsonblue]

4 hours ago, Stuart said:

This is simply untrue. The Charlton game was where Mowbray decided not to go for first place and instead to meddle.

He dropped Graham, Dack, Bennett, Williams, Conway and Raya, and brought in Samuel, Payne, Bell, Caddis(!), Downing and Leutwiler (!!).

Our luck didn’t run out, Mowbray brought in too many inferior players and rested (?) his best ones at a time when they only had two games of the season left and should have been well up for it.

Such a big build up was made about that game as well, screens at Ewood and the concourse happy to take coin from the fans, and he did that. Football is about moments. Yes, we were promoted but once that was done instead of “trying to win the League One title” Mowbray decided he had done enough. He should have personally reimbursed the match ticket of every fan that travelled.

He rested players who were injured or carrying knocks.  That's fair enough.  Maybe you feel you should have been reimbursed on the day for travelling down to London and not seeing a win, but those I went with and everyone around me at the Valley had a great day out. 

The main objective was to get promoted and we did. 

We dropped points over the course of the season that's life.  We had a great time travelling around the grounds in League One - just for a season - and I think you'll find the travelling support really enjoyed those trips, including the Charlton one.  

[arbitro]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

He rested players who were injured or carrying knocks.  That's fair enough.  Maybe you feel you should have been reimbursed on the day for travelling down to London and not seeing a win, but those I went with and everyone around me at the Valley had a great day out. 

The main objective was to get promoted and we did. 

We dropped points over the course of the season that's life.  We had a great time travelling around the grounds in League One - just for a season - and I think you'll find the travelling support really enjoyed those trips, including the Charlton one.  

You are absolutely right about the objective of promotion and from what I have seen nobody is disagreeing with that. I really don't buy the injury story. Had we needed a result at Charlton I don't for one minute believe that the team would have changed much from the Doncaster game.

I too enjoyed revisiting some of those grounds but after all the effort and cost to go to them I felt it was a little disingenuous of Mowbray not to push on for the title.

[Tom]

Would I rather be in Rovers position now rather than Wigan’s? 100% yes 

Would I rather we came 1st and Wigan 2nd in league one? Also yes, the two aren’t mutually exclusive!

Just like getting into a university of choice, of course the main thing is getting the minimum grades but who wouldn’t rather get A* across the board to reflect the hard work over the years. Surely you always strive for the best possible.

Seems odd to suggest winning the league wouldn’t have been better 

[Ossydave]

This is just descending into tittle-tattle about winning league one rather than Mondays game ?

[philipl]

What this chat does do is remind us that if Tony serves up another Charlton or Luton on Monday night, all the grievances are coming straight out of the locker.

Forewarned should be fore-armed.

[roversfan99]

26 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

He rested players who were injured or carrying knocks.  That's fair enough.  Maybe you feel you should have been reimbursed on the day for travelling down to London and not seeing a win, but those I went with and everyone around me at the Valley had a great day out. 

The main objective was to get promoted and we did. 

We dropped points over the course of the season that's life.  We had a great time travelling around the grounds in League One - just for a season - and I think you'll find the travelling support really enjoyed those trips, including the Charlton one.  

He played down the week before the importance of winning the league. He also implied that most of them players could have played if needed. I would have thought as a Rovers fan who clearly appreciates the historical side of the club and its past glories that a league title would have brought you further joy.

It wasnt about the season so far, the fact that promotion had already been achieved is irrelevant to the point people are making.

[roversfan99]

Just now, philipl said:

What this chat does do is remind us that if Tony serves up another Charlton or Luton on Monday night, all the grievances are coming straight out of the locker.

Forewarned should be fore-armed.

People will indeed be annoyed if we slip up at home to a team who cant buy a win away from home, with us in the form we are in. 

[Paul Mani]

17 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

It was not brought up by myself, but the argument still stands that we should have given it our best shot to win a league title. If it is nit picking to question surrendering a potential league title, when promotion was guaranteed regardless, then yes I am nit picking. 

I have never argued that it we are not a better team or have a better manager than them, all of which is irrelevant to an 18 month old debate about the importance of league titles which I feel my point is still valid on.

We did try to win!! We just didn’t manage it. ?

[HowieFive0]

5 hours ago, Stuart said:

This is simply untrue. The Charlton game was where Mowbray decided not to go for first place and instead to meddle.

He dropped Graham, Dack, Bennett, Williams, Conway and Raya, and brought in Samuel, Payne, Bell, Caddis(!), Downing and Leutwiler (!!).

Our luck didn’t run out, Mowbray brought in too many inferior players and rested (?) his best ones at a time when they only had two games of the season left and should have been well up for it.

Such a big build up was made about that game as well, screens at Ewood and the concourse happy to take coin from the fans, and he did that. Football is about moments. Yes, we were promoted but once that was done instead of “trying to win the League One title” Mowbray decided he had done enough. He should have personally reimbursed the match ticket of every fan that travelled.

Mowbray made six changes at weekend from a team unbeaten in five ? and people kicked off and said he d picked an inferior team and should walk ..look how that turned out !

All ifs and buts ..

[Paul Mani]

Just now, HowieFive0 said:

Mowbray made six changes at weekend from a team unbeaten in five ? and people kicked off and said he d picked an inferior team and should walk ..look how that turned out !

All ifs and buts ..

❤️

[JacknOry]

Just now, HowieFive0 said:

Mowbray made six changes at weekend from a team unbeaten in five ? and people one person kicked off and said he d picked an inferior team and should walk ..look how that turned out !

All ifs and buts ..

Fixed

Yes many questioned the lineup but only one claimed he should be sacked for it.

[HowieFive0]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Fixed

Yes many questioned the lineup but only one claimed he should be sacked for it.

Ok ..the rest just simply ridiculed Mowbray as not having a clue.

[roversfan99]

9 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

We did try to win!! We just didn’t manage it. ?

He downplayed the importance of the game and the title in the build up.

He also made numerous of changes in terms of taking out players who were perhaps not at 100% but had proven capable of winning games in the weeks prior and who returned the week after for the last home game. 

To be honest my main curiosity at the moment is how numerous Rovers fans are showing total disinterest in winning a league title! Since when do titles not matter?!

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

He downplayed the importance of the game and the title in the build up.

He also made numerous of changes in terms of taking out players who were perhaps not at 100% but had proven capable of winning games in the weeks prior and who returned the week after for the last home game. 

To be honest my main curiosity at the moment is how numerous Rovers fans are showing total disinterest in winning a league title! Since when do titles not matter?!

You are arguing with numerous posters on this man, just give it up and move on! People have made their viewpoint clear 

[DE.]

8 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

Ok ..the rest just simply ridiculed Mowbray as not having a clue.

It was a bizarre lineup, people commented accordingly. We won and played well, people commented accordingly. Simple as that really.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

This is all incredibly tedious to read.

 

I really dislike Paul Cook and want to destroy them next week. Merry Christmas.

[Leonard Venkhater]

27 minutes ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

This is all incredibly tedious to read.

 

I really dislike Paul Cook and want to destroy them next week. Merry Christmas.

D.R.I.T.