Forest V Rovers

[Wood26]

Just now, tomphil said:

Please turn it in about Sunderland and Pompey there's several other reasons we aren't like them. I'd say more parallels with Charlton to be honest.

There;s likely only one way all this will end and that will be a Bolton scenario and Mowbray nor anyone else will be about to stop that. That's why it is imperative whilst we still have some backing we don't waste what money and chances are available.

Yeah we should be worse off then them 2 but we aren’t cos Mowbray got us up, which is my point.

Even comparing us to Charlton, we are far better off then them aren’t we?

[tomphil]

Just now, Wood26 said:

Yeah we should be worse off then them 2 but we aren’t cos Mowbray got us up, which is my point.

Even comparing us to Charlton, we are far better off then them aren’t we?

No we shouldn't be worse than them at all and yes we are better than Charlton....for now.

Take your tongue out of his arse it must be tasting a bit bitter by now he can't live off that forever.

[Wood26]

Just now, tomphil said:

No we shouldn't be worse than them at all and yes we are better than Charlton....for now.

Take your tongue out of his arse it must be tasting a bit bitter by now he can't live off that forever.

My tongue ain’t up his arse pal, I want the same as you do. He stabilised us, got us back up, we are 4 points off play offs. I don’t forget our owners, but they seem less circus since he arrived, I’d rather bare with him then take a punt on god knows what.

[Bohinen 22]

15 minutes ago, Wood26 said:

Did you feel same after Bristol away? Nyambe and Cunningham are injured, as Dack, which can not be helped.

We were dead and buried for league 1 and Mowbray got us our first time of asking. Look at Sunderland and Portsmouth. 

How many Bristols away have we had recently? Far more performances like today.  He did a great job in league one. But how long do you live off that?

[tomphil]

Just now, Wood26 said:

My tongue ain’t up his arse pal, I want the same as you do. He stabilised us, got us back up, we are 4 points off play offs. I don’t forget our owners, but they seem less circus since he arrived, I’d rather bare with him then take a punt on god knows what.

Yeah i understand that and i don't want change just for the sake of it right now as unless it's done properly we'll instantly go backwards again. Part of my anger and frustration at him is because he's shown the way it needs to be done but somehow seems to want to prove a point that his preferred way of chopping and changing is the right way.

It isn't, if only he'd alter his ways and stick to it for the remainder of the season he'd hand out far less ammunition and probably gain more points.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

44 minutes ago, Wood26 said:

I still think we are a good enough side for play offs.

It's all about opinions Wood26 but that just goes against what we are painfully witnessing.

Can you imagine this lot promoted?....lambs to the slaughter.

[Wood26]

Just now, Bohinen 22 said:

How many Bristols away have we had recently? Far more performances like today.  He did a great job in league one. But how long do you live off that?

We were Better today then at Bristol, difference is today our keeper made 2 errors and at Bristol they didn’t take their chances. But that’s football.

[AllRoverAsia]

6 hours ago, CambridgeRover said:

Honestly complete nonsense.

He played the amazing ball for armstrong over the top and the cross field pass to bennett over the defense. 

You dislike him and your bias shows

Spot on. It's odd how some fans cant appreciate real talent.

[AllRoverAsia]

5 hours ago, Wood26 said:

But we know he wanted 2 keepers

Because he said so? After the event bullshit.

[RevidgeBlue]

4 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

We are a long, long way off top six material in my opinion Stuart and, as you know, I always like to have a positive outlook on life.  With the best will in the world we are mid-table and no more.  The signings we've made simply haven't delivered what was expected of them - and yes that's down to management as much as the players.  The more I see of Brereton the more I wonder about his signing - particularly for £6 million - even if the money is spread over a number of years.  I suspect that the plan was to sell Dack in January to make additions to the team - that plan is clearly in ruins.

With the financial situation as it is and a possible transfer embargo on the horizon, I'm at a loss as to how we do anything other than survive at Championship level at the moment.

 

What I don't understand Parson is why you seem so accepting of the fact we are rubbish and calmly (but correctly) state we are mid table at best and the signings haven't worked as if that is an acceptable.state of affairs.

I seem to recall you were perfectly happy with Gary Bowyer and never wanted him sacked either. Who would you rather have in charge now? I'd say there isn't much in it but if Bowyer (and maybe his Dad Ian) had had the money available Mowbray has had to bring players in then we might have had quite a few more saleable assets than we do now, and things might not look half as bad as they might get for FFP purposes.

 

[Exiled_Rover]

5 hours ago, Wood26 said:

My tongue ain’t up his arse pal, I want the same as you do. He stabilised us, got us back up, we are 4 points off play offs. I don’t forget our owners, but they seem less circus since he arrived, I’d rather bare with him then take a punt on god knows what.

He's doing a worse job than Bowyer.

[arbitro]

6 hours ago, Wood26 said:

We were Better today then at Bristol, difference is today our keeper made 2 errors and at Bristol they didn’t take their chances. But that’s football.

That my friend is absolute nonsense. Bristol should have been the template for the way forward but since then we have been poor in every game.

[philipl]

Walton at fault for all three goals.

[Parsonblue]

3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

What I don't understand Parson is why you seem so accepting of the fact we are rubbish and calmly (but correctly) state we are mid table at best and the signings haven't worked as if that is an acceptable.state of affairs.

I seem to recall you were perfectly happy with Gary Bowyer and never wanted him sacked either. Who would you rather have in charge now? I'd say there isn't much in it but if Bowyer (and maybe his Dad Ian) had had the money available Mowbray has had to bring players in then we might have had quite a few more saleable assets than we do now, and things might not look half as bad as they might get for FFP purposes.

 

Totally agree with your last point about Bowyer.  I think Gary and his Dad had a good eye for a player.  I think Gary had great potential as a manager.  He did a good job at Blackpool, in difficult circumstances, and Bradford City are looking good for promotion.

At the moment I really don't believe that changing the manager would bring about any real change in our fortunes.  We need some of our highly paid players to start performing on a more consistent basis.  Johnson, for example, was outstanding at Bristol and atrocious at Huddersfield.  

Admittedly we need to look to keep a settled formation and the Dack injury seems to have completely derailed things in that respect.  At present we simply don't look like scoring from open play and don't seem to have found an alternative to the creativity that Dack supplied.

Ultimately, the manager has to get the players he has paid a fair amount of money for to start delivering.  Come the end of the season he will surely be judged on how successful those players have been and if they have delivered a better League position than last season.  

I totally agree with what arbitro said above about the Bristol game being the template we should have followed.  That was the best performance I've seen for a long time and yet now, just a couple of week later, we seem light years away from that level.  Injuries have clearly taken their toll but really all it has done is highlight the fact that the squad may have numbers but not the quality required.  With the present financial situation, and FFP regulations suggesting a transfer embargo may not be far away, I'm not sure how we are going to solve that problem.

 

 

[den9112]

7 hours ago, Wood26 said:

We were Better today then at Bristol, difference is today our keeper made 2 errors and at Bristol they didn’t take their chances. But that’s football.

Sorry can't agree with that and yes i went to both games. At Bristol we had shape ,balance and  conviction in the right areas to be able to boss and manage the game..Sadly since then i have not seen it and i have not missed a game this season

Edited January 2, 2020 by den9112

[RevidgeBlue]

(Replying to Parson)

I note that you've neatly swerved my question altogether but thanks for the reply anyway and Happy New Year. ?

I'd have to take issue again with you in that the way I read your post, you appear to think that any sort of minor improvement on last year's 15th place finish would be acceptable whereas for me it's nowhere near good enough. Even that however pales into insignificance imo against the shambolic way the squad is shaping up having been under Mowbray's direction for the last 3 years.

Edited January 2, 2020 by RevidgeBlue

[Mashed Potatoes]

8 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

We are a long, long way off top six material in my opinion Stuart and, as you know, I always like to have a positive outlook on life.  With the best will in the world we are mid-table and no more.  The signings we've made simply haven't delivered what was expected of them - and yes that's down to management as much as the players.  The more I see of Brereton the more I wonder about his signing - particularly for £6 million - even if the money is spread over a number of years.  I suspect that the plan was to sell Dack in January to make additions to the team - that plan is clearly in ruins.

With the financial situation as it is and a possible transfer embargo on the horizon, I'm at a loss as to how we do anything other than survive at Championship level at the moment.

 

I agree with this. The manager can be justifiably criticised for the mistakes that he has made - although he is not "rank bad" as one poster above described him, just an average manager at this level, as Bowyer and Lambert were for us as well.

Anyone who argues for the manager to be removed does need to acknowledge that the likelihood of getting someone any better is low :

1. The owners have made 7 managerial appointments in their tenure to date, come up with no one better than Mowbray, and 4 who were significantly worse.

2. The owners have a toxic reputation in the game. They appointed an absurd Malaysian TV presenter to have some kind of overall say in football matters; more seriously the club was successfully sued by a former manager and one of the most distinguished players in the club's history in Henning Berg when they attempted to renege on a commitment in his employment contract.

3. It now seems quite likely that FFP rules  will kick in to restrict the club's transfer dealings

[Parsonblue]

8 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

(Replying to Parson)

I note that you've neatly swerved my question altogether but thanks for the reply anyway and Happy New Year. ?

I'd have to take issue again with you in that the way I read your post, you appear to think that any sort of minor improvement on last year's 15th place finish would be acceptable whereas for me it's nowhere near good enough. Even that however pales into insignificance imo against the shambolic way the squad is shaping up having been under Mowbray's direction for the last 3 years.

Happy New Year Rev !

Apologies, I thought I'd answered your question.  I've always thought - from day one - that we were a mid-table squad.  A squad that would finish around 10th to 12th place.  With a bit of luck, and a fair wind, we might just have been pushing for a play-off place if everything fell right for us.  At the moment that seems to be where we are at present.  I totally agree that a similar finish to last season would be hugely underwhelming considering the money that has been spent - primarily on two underachieving forwards.  At that point I would expect the manager to have serious questions to answer - as any manager should in those circumstances.  

[Ossydave]

12 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I agree with this. The manager can be justifiably criticised for the mistakes that he has made - although he is not "rank bad" as one poster above described him, just an average manager at this level, as Bowyer and Lambert were for us as well.

Anyone who argues for the manager to be removed does need to acknowledge that the likelihood of getting someone any better is low :

1. The owners have made 7 managerial appointments in their tenure to date, come up with no one better than Mowbray, and 4 who were significantly worse.

2. The owners have a toxic reputation in the game. They appointed an absurd Malaysian TV presenter to have some kind of overall say in football matters; more seriously the club was successfully sued by a former manager and one of the most distinguished players in the club's history in Henning Berg when they attempted to renege on a commitment in his employment contract.

3. It now seems quite likely that FFP rules  will kick in to restrict the club's transfer dealings

This is spot on.

Despite numerous calls to pot Mowbray theres hardly any realistic replacements being mentioned! Hughton is the only one I've read that I'd be open to, but you'd also question if thats realistic. He seems to be holding out for a premiership job again.

The only option is an Ainsworth type to step up from the lower league I'm afraid and that too is fraught with risk. Admittedly it is one we may have to take at some point if things don't improve.....

[tomphil]

You are going back a long way now in all that and i think within football Venkys also have a reputation for making people rich. Couple with the lure of the club, the squad and facilities it's a fantastic job.  Mowbray knows this that's why his first priority seems to be protect the status quo of the whole set up rather than set up every week to drive forwards.

Since the nonsense of Berg and Singh etc which was about 7 or 8 years ago they've had Bowyer in situ for a few years giving him a good crap of the whip. Paid him off after embargo then allowed Lambert a release clause, Mowbray pulled off the scrapheap and had the best backing of that lot by far.  He'll leave a few million richer if/when he does.

The whole Coyle episode was an unsavoury disaster but TM arrived here by similar means as did Lambert.  That's the way they'll do it again but my concern is the whole infracstructure is built around or even by Mowbray.  That's a problem as at most clubs that's in place separate from the football side so it can withstand change without falling to pieces.

Here at Ewood the Indians always seem to want a group of people lead by the football manager to run the whole operation like a football franchise.  That is the biggest obstacle to any quick change, this group have got the inside of the club sewn up.

Edited January 2, 2020 by tomphil

[Stuart]

8 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

We are a long, long way off top six material in my opinion Stuart and, as you know, I always like to have a positive outlook on life.  With the best will in the world we are mid-table and no more.  The signings we've made simply haven't delivered what was expected of them - and yes that's down to management as much as the players.  The more I see of Brereton the more I wonder about his signing - particularly for £6 million - even if the money is spread over a number of years.  I suspect that the plan was to sell Dack in January to make additions to the team - that plan is clearly in ruins.

With the financial situation as it is and a possible transfer embargo on the horizon, I'm at a loss as to how we do anything other than survive at Championship level at the moment.

Under Mowbray, yes, we are a long way off but that is (and must be) the target “with the financial situation as it is”. A (new) financial situation that Mowbray has significantly contributed to by spending big while not improving our team with the money. Since our last embargo due to FFP we have been relegated and promoted while still posting huge losses. This certainly isn’t sustainable but we cannot afford to make such big mistakes in the transfer market. Not once (Brereton) but twice (Gallagher). Most managers would pay the price for that alone.

This is such a tight division that the manager makes a big difference, certainly chasing that sixth spot. We are falling down the league but remain 4 points off the play-offs such is the congestion.

Meanwhile players are edging towards the end of their contracts and we could be hit with a new embargo at exactly the wrong time. One thing is for sure, like Bowyer before him, Mowbray cannot get the right tunes from the players he now has to pick from. We are now in a position of hoping that we can avoid a death-spin run of form (like we had under Mowbray last season) and simply stay up. But then what? He will still be allowed to carry on again next season!

Enough is enough. Last time we were here we had Jordan Rhodes to sell. This time our ace card is out shopping in the January sales rather than being part of them.

Such a disappointing season and one that was so foreseeable based on what happened last season, and lack of improvement to the first team in the Summer. I expect we’ll still be hearing about one or two new faces needed ‘to help’ the ones we already have come June. We need a change of not now when some wheeling and dealing is needed then certainly in the Summer.

[Guest]

Four games over this period and they've all been depressing in their own way. Forest capped it off though. First 40mins was the worst I've seen from us in years. Amari'i Bell was so bad he was getting booed by his own fans for his ridiculous and laughable inability to run forwards with a football. Sam Gallagher coming on after we all chant for Danny Graham, Joe Rothwell to right-back. We played without a goalkeeper for the first and third goal conceded, and Harry Chapman fell over again like he did at Huddersfield. Ben Brereton did nothing, Adarabioyo had a pretty poor game by his standards, Evans and Travis very quiet too...

Just nothing to latch onto where you can say "we can look forward to X or Y" from that Forest game. Nothing gave me confidence that there's a win coming.

This side is EXTREMELY lucky to have 36 points behind it already, because for me, we're going to struggle to hit 50 playing like this.

[RevidgeBlue]

19 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I agree with this. The manager can be justifiably criticised for the mistakes that he has made - although he is not "rank bad" as one poster above described him, just an average manager at this level, as Bowyer and Lambert were for us as well.

Anyone who argues for the manager to be removed does need to acknowledge that the likelihood of getting someone any better is low :

1. The owners have made 7 managerial appointments in their tenure to date, come up with no one better than Mowbray, and 4 who were significantly worse.

2. The owners have a toxic reputation in the game. They appointed an absurd Malaysian TV presenter to have some kind of overall say in football matters; more seriously the club was successfully sued by a former manager and one of the most distinguished players in the club's history in Henning Berg when they attempted to renege on a commitment in his employment contract.

3. It now seems quite likely that FFP rules  will kick in to restrict the club's transfer dealings

It was me that made the "rank bad" assessment and I stand by that. Just ask any Celtic fan what they make of Mowbray. His appointment also came completely out of left field, when we appointed him, he was on the managerial scrap heap having most recently walked out of League 2 Coventry due to poor results and he certainly wasn't a name that was on anyone's lips before he was appointed. If we did replace him, the bar wouldn't have to be set particularly high to find an upgrade, it's not like we'd be replacing a hugely successful  manager who's experiencing a temporary blip, his entire managerial career has been patchy at best and that's probably being generous.

I have to address the FFP point again. The reason we're likely to run into FFP problems is down to Mowbray making disastrous big money signings, making multiple other signings that he then barely utilises and failing to keep a tight enough grip on the wage bill by running a bloated and unbalanced squad and failing to offload players when they need unloading.

What are we meant to do, let him carry on making the situation even worse? The fact he might have made the situation difficult for any potential successor isn't a reason for keeping him, it's a major reason for getting rid.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

9 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Happy New Year Rev !

Apologies, I thought I'd answered your question.  I've always thought - from day one - that we were a mid-table squad.  A squad that would finish around 10th to 12th place.  With a bit of luck, and a fair wind, we might just have been pushing for a play-off place if everything fell right for us.  At the moment that seems to be where we are at present.  I totally agree that a similar finish to last season would be hugely underwhelming considering the money that has been spent - primarily on two underachieving forwards.  At that point I would expect the manager to have serious questions to answer - as any manager should in those circumstances.  

But why wait until summer? A new man ideally needs to come in now, assess, and start rebuilding the squad in time for next season. If we left it until summer that's probably next season down the pan already.

[arbitro]

25 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I agree with this. The manager can be justifiably criticised for the mistakes that he has made - although he is not "rank bad" as one poster above described him, just an average manager at this level, as Bowyer and Lambert were for us as well.

Anyone who argues for the manager to be removed does need to acknowledge that the likelihood of getting someone any better is low :

1. The owners have made 7 managerial appointments in their tenure to date, come up with no one better than Mowbray, and 4 who were significantly worse.

2. The owners have a toxic reputation in the game. They appointed an absurd Malaysian TV presenter to have some kind of overall say in football matters; more seriously the club was successfully sued by a former manager and one of the most distinguished players in the club's history in Henning Berg when they attempted to renege on a commitment in his employment contract.

3. It now seems quite likely that FFP rules  will kick in to restrict the club's transfer dealings

That's akin to saying that Mowbray shouldn't be allowed to sign any more players because generally his signings haven't added value. After the last four games I really believe we will be in a relegation scrap and anything can happen. We are stagnant under Mowbray and I don't think he can turn this malaise around. We need some fresh ideas, some motivational techniques and a new pair of eyes. I said to you the other day that I would move Damien Johnson up and you disagreed which is your prerogative. There is growing concern about the direction we are going under Mowbray but your assertion about the elephant still in the room is absolutely correct. Venkys are slowly killing us.