Forest V Rovers

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 hours ago, tomphil said:

Please turn it in about Sunderland and Pompey there's several other reasons we aren't like them. I'd say more parallels with Charlton to be honest.

There;s likely only one way all this will end and that will be a Bolton scenario and Mowbray nor anyone else will be about to stop that. That's why it is imperative whilst we still have some backing we don't waste what money and chances are available.

I'd swap places with Bolton tomorrow if that meant we were no longer in the death grip of the Chicken Chokers. They are a cancer in the body of Blackburn Rovers and we will never thrive under their ownership.

[Amo]

We should give Mowbray a contract for life. I dread to think how the club could possibly function without him. 

[JBiz]

5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I'd swap places with Bolton tomorrow if that meant we were no longer in the death grip of the Chicken Chokers. They are a cancer in the body of Blackburn Rovers and we will never thrive under their ownership.

I understand the sentiment, as I am unhappy about seeing the debt against the club build up - however I think selling all facilities, training ground, academy, stadium, losing all the best players and starting again in the 4th tier is a little bit of an extreme reaction to being a mid table championship side at present!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

I understand the sentiment, as I am unhappy about seeing the debt against the club build up - however I think selling all facilities, training ground, academy, stadium, losing all the best players and starting again in the 4th tier is a little bit of an extreme reaction to being a mid table championship side at present!

It'll happen with this lot in charge. It's just a matter of when. We've not had enough to pay the electric bill in the past but we pulled through. I was proud of Rovers when we were playing the Darlington's and Chesterfields, I'm not proud of Rovers at the moment. We're verging on an embarrassment.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

I understand the sentiment, as I am unhappy about seeing the debt against the club build up - however I think selling all facilities, training ground, academy, stadium, losing all the best players and starting again in the 4th tier is a little bit of an extreme reaction to being a mid table championship side at present!

Unless we get promoted in the next few years which I don't believe will happen with Mowbray in charge then I believe that scenario is quite likely to happen in the next few years, as it is unsustainable to carry on bobbing along mid table/bottom half of the Championship with that amount of debt continually increasing. 

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It'll happen with this lot in charge. It's just a matter of when. We've not had enough to pay the electric bill in the past but we pulled through. I was proud of Rovers when we were playing the Darlington's and Chesterfields, I'm not proud of Rovers at the moment. We're verging on an embarrassment.

 

Firstly, we agree things could, should be better but we’ve had ten years of idiotic mistakes, Bald crooks, Malaysian pundits, obvious dodgy crap going on, best players leaving, staff being laid off, the soul / spirit sucked out of the stadium and some players who literally didn’t give a shit.

However, don’t think I have ever felt TMs team “doesn’t give a shit”.
 

That was the worst feeling I’ve had in the last decade, and it mainly came under Coyle, Kean, Berg, Lambert and Bowyer at times.

So I’d say we’ve had much worse times in the last 10 years than the present. Simply wishing to hit the reset switch of the entire club seems way OTT in my opinion, in any case.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I've not seen a full game since the Wigan game but if that was our players " giving a shit " I wouldn't like to see us when we weren't trying. I keep banging on about this but we get out enthused by our opponents 9 games out of 10.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[JBiz]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Unless we get promoted in the next few years which I don't believe will happen with Mowbray in charge then I believe that scenario is quite likely to happen in the next few years, as it is unsustainable to carry on bobbing along mid table/bottom half of the Championship with that amount of debt continually increasing. 

One thing I’ve always agreed with @JHRover on is if they had stomach or the interest, there are several ways in which debt can be reduced or FFP ignored. Look at Derby this season...

Where I found it hard to agree with him, I’m not sure I’d want Venkys London buying our stadium and facilities for 200m so the club is debt free... or turning 175m into 250m giving free reign to an expensive manager.

I think it’s very complex and hard to fathom the best way out, and as you say it may get to the point where they simply turn off the tap.

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I've not seen a full game since the Wigan game but if that was our players " giving a shit " I wouldn't like to see us when we weren't trying.

I watched the Wigan game, an insipid performance due to a lack of quality in terms of passing and creating chances. Our recent style of play at Bristol/Swansea was massively impacted by losing Tosin (imo) and obviously we don’t need reminding what happened to our statistically best and most important player in that game.

At no point did I feel it was a lack of effort. I don’t recall feeling that under TM, even in the dark days of Oldham away. Then like now, I just feel we can be organised better and do the simple things more consistently.

Youll never convince me that the reaction to a poor Christmas run is to swap places with Bolton!

[JHRover]

I asked Waggott at the Shareholders meeting in September about what, if any, attempts were being made to circumvent the rules by bringing in sponsorship from some of the owners many companies or the hundreds of large businesses that they must have dealings with in Asia.

QPR, Cardiff, Fulham have all done deals e.g. with Visit Florida or Visit Malaysia or airlines linked to their owners.

Alternatively sponsor the training ground like Birmingham owners.

I didn't get a coherent answer from him, except to say that it was something that they were 'looking into'.

It's what, 5 years since Ffp was introduced?

They simply don't want to. Don't fall for it. They haven't the interest to try and beat the system or find ways of improving our prospects. No wonder then why the place is in such a state.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

We were diabolical in the first half against Wigan and Dack was playing then, allegedly.

[Pedro]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I've not seen a full game since the Wigan game but if that was our players " giving a shit " I wouldn't like to see us when we weren't trying.

I've endured every minute of them all. It's not that they don't give a shit, it's that they aren't fit enough to give a shit, they are too mentally weak/tired to pull off the basics for a prolonged period of time and are generally confused as to what their roles actually are - as some of them have up to four different ones within a match.

 

[stinny1]

This season is now closed well done everybody have a great  Summer  . And don't  forget where doing it all again next August . And don't  forget your early bird half season tickets as we are only competing  from August  till December again   thanks for you support  TM and Venkys  a team you can trust

[Bbrovers2288]

Mashed potatoes your argument that we wouldn’t get any better manager in Is both annoying and ruled by fear. Exactly the type of ‘it will do, just accept it’ attitude that has got us to where we are in the first place. I will always want bigger and better for this club, to mr mowbray has done nothing for the squad or playing style since he got here. We couldn’t even dominate or over power teams in league one. Gets a free ride from so many for so little 

[stinny1]

Rovers get 200 million cash injection  from india  in new stadium naming deal  Ewood park to be called the Bombay Duck stadium . And TM in a interview  said he can't  wait too waste he's  war chest

[Amo]

See Rothwell was getting slagged off yesterday but wasn't he involved for both of our goals? 

Attack-minded players will often frustrate and thrill in equal measure, but you stick with them because they're capable of moments of magic.

We should have straight-swapped Rothwell for Dack and kept more or less the same shape/personnel as before. 

[Mashed Potatoes]

16 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Mashed potatoes your argument that we wouldn’t get any better manager in Is both annoying and ruled by fear. Exactly the type of ‘it will do, just accept it’ attitude that has got us to where we are in the first place. I will always want bigger and better for this club, to mr mowbray has done nothing for the squad or playing style since he got here. We couldn’t even dominate or over power teams in league one. Gets a free ride from so many for so little 

You are disagreeing with me which is your prerogative. Re League One that season saw us with a club record number of wins and points; I think to be finding fault there is a bit silly. Regarding the manager I've put forward reasons why I hold this view - they are summarised as 3 points above. I don't think we are where we are because of the reasoning of people like myself but rather because of utterly disastrous decision making about personnel and club structure in the early years of the Venky's ownership.

[Mashed Potatoes]

36 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I asked Waggott at the Shareholders meeting in September about what, if any, attempts were being made to circumvent the rules by bringing in sponsorship from some of the owners many companies or the hundreds of large businesses that they must have dealings with in Asia.

QPR, Cardiff, Fulham have all done deals e.g. with Visit Florida or Visit Malaysia or airlines linked to their owners.

Alternatively sponsor the training ground like Birmingham owners.

I didn't get a coherent answer from him, except to say that it was something that they were 'looking into'.

It's what, 5 years since Ffp was introduced?

They simply don't want to. Don't fall for it. They haven't the interest to try and beat the system or find ways of improving our prospects. No wonder then why the place is in such a state.

These sorts of things may be possible but if they don't proceed I think it will be down to people in India rather than the failings of anybody at Ewood Park.

Regarding FFP I think deals do have to look as if they are in line with market rates. I get the impression that the EFL are now under pressure from some clubs to look very hard at clubs who are trying to circumnavigate FFP - in particular Steve Gibson and Middlesbrough are prepared to threaten to take legal action

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

You are going back a long way now in all that and i think within football Venkys also have a reputation for making people rich. Couple with the lure of the club, the squad and facilities it's a fantastic job.  Mowbray knows this that's why his first priority seems to be protect the status quo of the whole set up rather than set up every week to drive forwards.

Since the nonsense of Berg and Singh etc which was about 7 or 8 years ago they've had Bowyer in situ for a few years giving him a good crap of the whip. Paid him off after embargo then allowed Lambert a release clause, Mowbray pulled off the scrapheap and had the best backing of that lot by far.  He'll leave a few million richer if/when he does.

The whole Coyle episode was an unsavoury disaster but TM arrived here by similar means as did Lambert.  That's the way they'll do it again but my concern is the whole infracstructure is built around or even by Mowbray.  That's a problem as at most clubs that's in place separate from the football side so it can withstand change without falling to pieces.

Here at Ewood the Indians always seem to want a group of people lead by the football manager to run the whole operation like a football franchise.  That is the biggest obstacle to any quick change, this group have got the inside of the club sewn up.

I don't think Lambert would have come here in the first place without the release clause. He was the manager with the highest standing in the game who has joined us and it is telling that he wanted the release clause so that he could get out if things really were as bad as he was told they would be.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Amo said:

We should give Mowbray a contract for life. I dread to think how the club could possibly function without him. 

You know who was saying he should be given a 10 year contract after we got promoted !

He's comfortable enough to play around with it game by game as it is and basically do what he wants, imagine if he had the security of another 8 years ?

Edited January 2, 2020 by tomphil

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It was me that made the "rank bad" assessment and I stand by that. Just ask any Celtic fan what they make of Mowbray. His appointment also came completely out of left field, when we appointed him, he was on the managerial scrap heap having most recently walked out of League 2 Coventry due to poor results and he certainly wasn't a name that was on anyone's lips before he was appointed. If we did replace him, the bar wouldn't have to be set particularly high to find an upgrade, it's not like we'd be replacing a hugely successful  manager who's experiencing a temporary blip, his entire managerial career has been patchy at best and that's probably being generous.

I have to address the FFP point again. The reason we're likely to run into FFP problems is down to Mowbray making disastrous big money signings, making multiple other signings that he then barely utilises and failing to keep a tight enough grip on the wage bill by running a bloated and unbalanced squad and failing to offload players when they need unloading.

What are we meant to do, let him carry on making the situation even worse? The fact he might have made the situation difficult for any potential successor isn't a reason for keeping him, it's a major reason for getting rid.

 

I don't disagree with everything you say but :

1. If a manager like Mowbray who in this division has turned in a return of around 1.38 points per game is "rank bad" what words do you use to describe the likes of Kean, Berg, Appleton and Coyle ?

2. We don't sack Mowbray as some kind of act of revenge or punishment beating for FFP. Indeed with a contract for him and presumably Venus running to June 2022 you make FFP worse.

3. He can't waste transfer funds now - there aren't any left

 

[tomphil]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

I don't think Lambert would have come here in the first place without the release clause. He was the manager with the highest standing in the game who has joined us and it is telling that he wanted the release clause so that he could get out if things really were as bad as he was told they would be.

I don't think 'bad' was ever a word he used quite the opposite actually.  Simply put he was offered a big budget and the Rhodes sale proceeds and he covered himself for the too good to be true scenario not coming to fruition.

He was correct in doing so and i think if they'd met him halfway he'd have stuck it out a bit longer. No idea how that might have worked out but we'd have avoided the Coyle fiasco at least.

[Mashed Potatoes]

24 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I don't think 'bad' was ever a word he used quite the opposite actually.  Simply put he was offered a big budget and the Rhodes sale proceeds and he covered himself for the too good to be true scenario not coming to fruition.

He was correct in doing so and i think if they'd met him halfway he'd have stuck it out a bit longer. No idea how that might have worked out but we'd have avoided the Coyle fiasco at least.

As I recall he looked visibly worn down and fed up towards the end of his tenure; personally I thought he couldn't wait to get out

[K-Hod]

43 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I don't disagree with everything you say but :

1. If a manager like Mowbray who in this division has turned in a return of around 1.38 points per game is "rank bad" what words do you use to describe the likes of Kean, Berg, Appleton and Coyle ?

2. We don't sack Mowbray as some kind of act of revenge or punishment beating for FFP. Indeed with a contract for him and presumably Venus running to June 2022 you make FFP worse.

3. He can't waste transfer funds now - there aren't any left

 

Re point 3- and who’s fault is that? 
No manager in this league could really complain at the backing Mowbray has received....

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

As I recall he looked visibly worn down and fed up towards the end of his tenure; personally I thought he couldn't wait to get out

No wonder really when you've got to work your notice. Not saying it's right but basically you just want to get onto the next project. 

Something he'd probably already lined up ?