Preston (home)

[K-Hod]

By the way- just as a general point. 
If we are having nicknames for our rivals owing to the way they voted in the election, can that be done in ICBINF please? 
It takes threads off topic by causing arguments and it’s just some admin the mods could do without. Thanks.

[Mashed Potatoes]

7 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Only 3, only 4, only 5*...

It’s the Bowyer days all over again.

We've needed a change for so long people are now fed up of saying/hearing it. So we just carry on.

What is going to swing things to force a change? It’s not palatable and it’s not the done thing and some won’t like it but it almost certainly will take the fans to turn on Mowbray and make him walk.

Instead, all that happens is what has happened: we win a few games and “we are right back in it” and fans are back gloating “where are all the haters now” - and round and round we go. We need a manager who can turn games like yesterday from a draw to a win and we know that isn’t in Mowbray’s armoury - his teams have no mental strength let alone ability/appetite to win a tight Championship game. Yes he wants it but he can’t deliver and is more than happy instead to protect a point. Preston were not a great side yesterday but we just didn’t have enough to get past them.

So it’s down to the fans. But who is going to be the first to do so without being put off by being shouted down, swore at or worse? Some folk on our terraces even defended Kean at the time and our fans will be divided once more. Of course, the alternative is just to shrug and watch games in muted silence and walk home afterwards but is that what anyone wants for a pastime long-term? Because the long-term is exactly what Mowbray has been given.

 

*May even be 7 points after today.

As you are the man with all the answers I nominate you as the first.

[MarkBRFC]

When I saw the line up yesterday a very small part of me wondered whether we were going to go 442, Gally & Arma up top, Downing and Holtby out wide with Nyambe and Bell trying to bomb past them. 

Deep down though I just knew it would be Gallagher plodding up and down that wing not having a clue what to do.

[Stuart]

6 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

As you are the man with all the answers I nominate you as the first.

Good morning to you too.

Do you have a different suggestion?

Of course you don’t. Your default answer is that Mowbray is the best manager little old Rovers could ever hope to get.

[tomphil]

4 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

When I saw the line up yesterday a very small part of me wondered whether we were going to go 442, Gally & Arma up top, Downing and Holtby out wide with Nyambe and Bell trying to bomb past them. 

Deep down though I just knew it would be Gallagher plodding up and down that wing not having a clue what to do.

No doubt just set up to stop the opposition as usual and they did that yesterday. However it's a poor show when you have to accommodate - and that's what he's doing - your 5 million pound striker as some sort of defensive wide midfielder come winger. That's what Bennett is better for surely ?

If he rates EB that much why isn't he holding down his natural position ?

 

[Hasta]

It looked a 'do not concede' lineup with little creativity and so it proved.

The Gallagher wide thing really is pointless. I cant think of many times all season it has had any benefit. Even when we hit long balls to him, he seems unable to pick up the flight of the ball until it has travelled half way towards him. Most of Prestons high balls where nowhere near that lump they brought on but he still got to most of them.

Graham just has far more nouse as a striker. The penaly appeal on Gallagher is a nothing ball forward which DG manages to make something of. For the chance at the end when the Preston player cleared it and ran into the post, Graham was in the right place for the cross. Had that been Gallagher he would have been on his heels or making the wrong run. The fact he has been sidelines all season to make way for £12mill's worth of flops really is shocking. I'd be trying playing him with Armstrong in the Dack role and see if they can link up.

I thought defensively the starting back 4 did well, especially Lenihan and Nyambe (who would have been MOTM had he lasted it out). Bell made some key blocks in the 2nd half but is shocking in terms of ability on the ball. Other than that the rest did OK bar Gallagher who doesnt know what to do when he gets the ball out wide. Armstrong was very good and also seemed fired up for the occasion. Would have liked to have seen Chapman or Rothwell late on but the changes due to injuries didnt give us that option.

Preston, like practically every team this season, look very mediocre. However there will probably 2 or 3 of those teams that get in the play offs, and if Sinclair has an impact they might scrape in there. We are set for a 13th to 18th finish due to the loss of Dack. We are now just relying on getting the ball forward and hoping something happens rather than creating.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Hasta

[Mashed Potatoes]

13 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Good morning to you too.

Do you have a different suggestion?

Of course you don’t. Your default answer is that Mowbray is the best manager little old Rovers could ever hope to get.

My answer is that "Mowbray Out" is only part of a sentence. To sensibly address the management issue requires information as to the FFP position that the club is in , the funds if any that the owners want to commit and the process for identifying the mysterious "better manager out there" that so many claim to know of. Only then would anyone be able to say with a reasonable degree of confidence that the next manager attracted to the club will be an improvement. In the meantime I will sit back and watch your one man pitch invasion in protest at the manager.

[tomphil]

Mysterious better manager ?

Get Keith Hill in and see what someone a bit more bread and butter can do with Mowbrays budget.  Which contrary to what some like to peddle has actually been very good in the past couple of seasons for a midtable championship team.

How many mysterious so called better managers would spew the 12 million he has and be getting sod all in return for it ???

 

[47er]

9 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

My answer is that "Mowbray Out" is only part of a sentence. To sensibly address the management issue requires information as to the FFP position that the club is in , the funds if any that the owners want to commit and the process for identifying the mysterious "better manager out there" that so many claim to know of. Only then would anyone be able to say with a reasonable degree of confidence that the next manager attracted to the club will be an improvement. In the meantime I will sit back and watch your one man pitch invasion in protest at the manager.

I'd wager that no other manager given £12M for two players in the Championship would totally waste it as TM has. And a new manager would never play Gallagher on the wing so maybe he might find some form too.

I think you are one of the pessimists actually---we can't find anyone better than Mowbray so let's do nothing.

[Mashed Potatoes]

4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Mysterious better manager ?

Get Keith Hill in and see what someone a bit more bread and butter can do with Mowbrays budget.  Which contrary to what some like to peddle has actually been very good in the past couple of seasons for a midtable championship team.

How many mysterious so called better managers would spew the 12 million he has and be getting sod all in return for it ???

 

I think in some respects you are right in that Hill is the sort of manager that probably would be hired. I think if you look back on the various posts there have been on this issue over the last few months the "Mowbray Out" brigade are assuming that a manager with a more convincing track record or potential than Hill would be hired - whereas I think they would be disappointed.

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I think in some respects you are right in that Hill is the sort of manager that probably would be hired. I think if you look back on the various posts there have been on this issue over the last few months the "Mowbray Out" brigade are assuming that a manager with a more convincing track record or potential than Hill would be hired - whereas I think they would be disappointed.

People were dissapointed when Mowbray was hired but gave him time to prove what he could do.

Initially that was a good job. However he now seems to be struggling to manage the club because of the FFP situation which he has partly created by blowing the 12 million, whilst also jeopardising his team selections to justify those transfers. 

People do not trust TM to recruit suitably anymore. Of course people preferably want a proven manager, but like when Mowbray was appointed, they will give anybody reasonable a chance unless it is as iffy and dodgy as Coyle. However we are going nowhere as we currently are so if we have any ambition at all of kicking on we need a change.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Hasta

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Your peddling the same pointless comment over and over again Mr Potatoes that we can't get anyone better than the great Tony Mowbray.

That is pure conjecture on your behalf and you have no proof whatsoever that that will be the outcome.

Rinse and repeat as we slowly slip down the table.

[Pedro]

52 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

My answer is that "Mowbray Out" is only part of a sentence. To sensibly address the management issue requires information as to the FFP position that the club is in , the funds if any that the owners want to commit and the process for identifying the mysterious "better manager out there" that so many claim to know of. Only then would anyone be able to say with a reasonable degree of confidence that the next manager attracted to the club will be an improvement. In the meantime I will sit back and watch your one man pitch invasion in protest at the manager.

Comical how you claim the better managers out there are mysterious. They aren't. They've been named countless times and I think each and every one who went on to work for a smaller club than our own, performed really well.  We currently have a manager  who consistently can't the best out of what we have. A manager who struggles to improve the squad with £15m of investment. A manager who can't pick a settled side, who can't get us fit, believing and motivated and who can't stop us leaking goals and making schoolboy errors.

He sounds like a real miracle worker. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Pedro

[Pedro]

41 minutes ago, 47er said:

I'd wager that no other manager given £12M for two players in the Championship would totally waste it as TM has. And a new manager would never play Gallagher on the wing so maybe he might find some form too.

I think you are one of the pessimists actually---we can't find anyone better than Mowbray so let's do nothing.

This.

 

100%

[Mashed Potatoes]

9 minutes ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Your peddling the same pointless comment over and over again Mr Potatoes that we can't get anyone better than the great Tony Mowbray.

That is pure conjecture on your behalf and you have no proof whatsoever that that will be the outcome.

Rinse and repeat as we slowly slip down the table.

I'm expressing an opinion. In fact I am not saying we "can't" improve on Mowbray, just that (1) I would like to know the facts of what offer would actually be on the table for a new manager with regard to finances and control over transfers and (2) having made 7 managerial appointments in 9 years the owners' track record is that Mowbray is as good as they get. I have to guess as to the answer to (1) - as does everyone else - but my guess is that the offer would not be attractive to many of the more established managers. In the circumstances I stick with Mowbray as at least he is keeping us out of trouble.

[Mashed Potatoes]

4 minutes ago, Pedro said:

Comical how you claim the better managers out there are mysterious. They aren't. They've been named countless times and I think each and every one who went on to work for a smaller club than our own, performed really well.  We currently have a manager  who consistently can't the best out of what we have. A manager who struggles to improve the squad with £15m of investment. A manager who can't pick a settled side, who can't get us fit, believing and motivated and who can't stop us leaking goals and making schoolboy errors.

He sounds like a real miracle worker. 

My memory must be failing but please could you name these managers and explain what they have achieved.

[JHRover]

10 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I'm expressing an opinion. In fact I am not saying we "can't" improve on Mowbray, just that (1) I would like to know the facts of what offer would actually be on the table for a new manager with regard to finances and control over transfers and (2) having made 7 managerial appointments in 9 years the owners' track record is that Mowbray is as good as they get. I have to guess as to the answer to (1) - as does everyone else - but my guess is that the offer would not be attractive to many of the more established managers. In the circumstances I stick with Mowbray as at least he is keeping us out of trouble.

You are never going to get that information. So do you oppose any change until the club provides you with a portfolio of accounts and a shortlist of targets who have indicated that they would take the job before supporting a change?

 

[jim mk2]

9 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

My memory must be failing but please could you name these managers and explain what they have achieved.

 Neil Warnock. 

Look him up.

If your memory extends to remembering how to use google

 

[white boy]

No doubt... plenty of madness..... wasn't calling one side just my own experience 

[Blue blood]

5 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

My memory must be failing but please could you name these managers and explain what they have achieved.

Warnock (almost came) and promoted with Cardiff. 

Rowett - doing well with Millwall. 

Houghton (still not in work and unconvinced he will get a premiership gig and he will soon realise that). 

That's just off the top of my head. 

But let's be honest it's a straw man argument. To be better they have to realistically do a few things:

1) not blow the entire transfer budget on 2 utter flops potentially endangering us to FFP

2) have a fairly consistent line up and not play players stupidly out of position. 

3) not in the last year have a points per game total that is relegation form, or as poor as Mowbrays (which might just be above it, not done the maths). But in short a better recent record than TM

4) if you want to consider past achievements although there's pros and cons to this (Souness did brilliantly for us for 3 seasons then lost the plot, and feel TM for all his past achievements with us has similarly done so) then have a better record of success than TM. This is a harder criteria especially with upcoming managers so perhaps isn't a great one to use for numerous reasons. 

On criteria 1-3 I suggest most managers suggested blow TM away. Or put it another way who would want TM as a manager from another club now? 

It is risky the Lunes appointing but I would suggest they would struggle to do worse than TM who has run his course. 

[Sparks Rover]

Shteeve Maclaren for me....

[white boy]

21 hours ago, Husky said:

Only kids go to McDonalds. Surely a youngster shouldn't have any trouble walking up a small incline?

* I do apologise if you've got Club Foot.

ocpd from taking lots of naughty things when i was young, to be fair i think Lancshire County Council should allow me to use my bus pass they provide to get me to Mill Hill

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Only 3, only 4, only 5*...

It’s the Bowyer days all over again.

We've needed a change for so long people are now fed up of saying/hearing it. So we just carry on.

What is going to swing things to force a change? It’s not palatable and it’s not the done thing and some won’t like it but it almost certainly will take the fans to turn on Mowbray and make him walk.

Instead, all that happens is what has happened: we win a few games and “we are right back in it” and fans are back gloating “where are all the haters now” - and round and round we go. We need a manager who can turn games like yesterday from a draw to a win and we know that isn’t in Mowbray’s armoury - his teams have no mental strength let alone ability/appetite to win a tight Championship game. Yes he wants it but he can’t deliver and is more than happy instead to protect a point. Preston were not a great side yesterday but we just didn’t have enough to get past them.

So it’s down to the fans. But who is going to be the first to do so without being put off by being shouted down, swore at or worse? Some folk on our terraces even defended Kean at the time and our fans will be divided once more. Of course, the alternative is just to shrug and watch games in muted silence and walk home afterwards but is that what anyone wants for a pastime long-term? Because the long-term is exactly what Mowbray has been given.

 

*May even be 7 points after today.

In fairness, I think we are still some way off the fans turning on the manager in any sizeable numbers.  The away support seems firmly behind the manager and team during games despite the fact that there are doubts about certain players and the positions in which they play.  Likewise at Ewood, I've not really encountered people who are desperate for a change despite reservations about the present situation.  Mowbray is still well-liked by a large number of supporters despite what may be written on here.  

When fans wanted rid of Iley or Saxton, for example, there was no mistaking the hostility at the ground.  I think we are a long way off that sort of situation and I suspect you are right in that it will take something of that magnitude to change things.  However, as I said, I don't believe there is that sort of desire for change at the moment.

In the past the likes of Lee, Smith and Kendall have been able to use a spell at Ewood as a stepping stone to bigger things in management.  I suspect any young and up and coming manager today would be wary of taking on the Rovers.  The financial situation means they are likely to have no money to rebuild a squad which is a long way off being a top six outfit, let alone a top two side.   At the same time you have a fanbase where memories of the Premier League are still fresh and the desire to return is huge.  In the past expectation levels weren't as high because we had spent such a long time away from the top flight.  Indeed, if you had offered supporters in the early seventies the League position we are in today we'd have snapped your hand off!

I don't believe there are any easy solutions to the plight of the club - the financial situation is now the issue which overrides everything else and colours every decision, including that of the manager.

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Warnock (almost came) and promoted with Cardiff. 

Rowett - doing well with Millwall. 

Houghton (still not in work and unconvinced he will get a premiership gig and he will soon realise that)

Hughton ain't coming here. No chance. 

Warnock now retired 

Rowett. Good manager. But would he work for Venkys? 

[Sparks Rover]

You just know before we start that theres absolutely no chance of us turning up, dominating a game a from start to finish and giving a team a right good battering, playing well, looking good.  Its shit boring plodding on the whole.  Mowbray out

Edited January 12, 2020 by Sparks Rover