FFP Trouble

[Miller11]

Apparently there has been a lot of talk about this at the fans forum tonight. I wasn’t at the meeting, but apparently the big news was this:

 

We are right on the cusp of breaching FFP rules

 

The plan was to sell Dack this window to remain compliant

 

Since his injury they have looked into a sale and lease/buy back of Ewood. They decided against this due to the ACV on the ground. Other avenues are being explored.

 

So I wouldn’t expect any signings this window.

 

[OldEwoodBlue]

This was blindingly obvious from the accounts. The ACV on Ewood and the covenant on Brockhall reduce their options (thankfully). Only ever 2 ways out of this mess in the end.... PL / Sky money or Administration.

[Miller11]

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

ACV status doesn't prevent a sale, just delays it for 6 months to give community time to raise funds.

And I expect that they need the money quicker than within 6 months so it’s back to the drawing board

[Sparks Rover]

Strange cos Paul Mani on the other thread says we have money to spend and there's nothing to see here.....all is well apparently. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Mowbray's left us with a handful of magic beans.

[OldEwoodBlue]

They will probably try to flog Neville mansion again. They tried in 2016 for £3mill but then took it off the market.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/property/fancy-living-gary-nevilles-former-11141488

We just had a new heating system fitted 6 months ago and pay for it's daily upkeep.

[tomphil]

If this is actually correct i'd sack the fercking lot of them tomorrow for being so reckless, some might say acting in other interests.

Back to square one but the way Mowbray handles the team and tactics and Waggot the DE and tickets etc i'd say the pair of them are operating a league or two above their abilities.

[TBTF]

35 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Apparently there has been a lot of talk about this at the fans forum tonight. I wasn’t at the meeting, but apparently the big news was this:

 

We are right on the cusp of breaching FFP rules

 

The plan was to sell Dack this window to remain compliant

 

Since his injury they have looked into a sale and lease/buy back of Ewood. They decided against this due to the ACV on the ground. Other avenues are being explored.

 

So I wouldn’t expect any signings this window.

 

Where’s the surprise ? Everybody on here has watched this get closer on a monthly basis for 3 years . What have our hierarchy done to mitigate it ??? Blown £12million 1/3rd of the 3 year FFP loss allowance ) on 2 non scoring strikers .It defies belief . Management and ownership of our club is an absolute clusterf..k . It’s broken and can’t be mended I’m sad to say .

 

[JHRover]

So lets suppose after beating Bristol City and being in a rich vein of form and within a few points of 3rd place we had actually kicked on and dispatched poor Wigan, Birmingham and Huddersfield over Christmas and Dack had netted in each and hadn't got injured.

Would the club seriously have gone into January with a 'plan' of selling Dack with the play-offs within our grasp?

If the answer is 'yes' then we need shut of the lot of them, because no club in that position would even entertain such an idea, let alone base FFP compliance on it. If the answer is 'no' it shows that actually there is very little by way of a plan.

I think that FFP is an all to convenient excuse for those running Rovers to hide behind at every turn. Whenever they feel like not spending anything, or selling off an asset or two, they just need to spend a couple of  weeks laying the groundwork for it by trying to implant FFP in the minds of supporters. That way nobody will ever blame our billionaire, kind, benevolent owners. They want to do X,Y, Z but can't because of them nasty rules.

FACT - only Birmingham have been hit with proper sanctions and that was after they took the League on and continued spending despite being told not to. Nobody else has suffered anything. QPR a measly fine after promotion was secured, Sheffield Wednesday are taking them to arbitration and others have found elaborate and creative ways around it.

Having been told after promotion that we were building sustainably, avoiding gambling and were doing it long term to ensure stability if there is even a grain of truth that we are at risk of breaking these rules then heads need to roll.

[tomphil]

Just how long before Waggot, Venus and co are advising selling part of Brockhall ?

Going down the Coventry route, that'd be another amazing Venky era coincidence these lot pitching up here with that form.

[Uddersfelt Blue]

Surely FFP would only come into play at the end of the 20/21 season. 
 

Whilst in League 1 we were under a different set of rules 
 

Championship cover maximum losses of £39m over 3 years with presumably Year 1 being last season.

FFP is a load of bollocks anyway with clubs seemingly wriggling out of the rules as they wish

 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Uddersfelt Blue

[tomphil]

That's a good point so if that version is the right one then the picture should be a bit brighter. Still doesn't mean there's anything left in this seasons budget and we are still set to rack up another massive loss next season as it is.  However it could also be being banded about as a convenient excuse not to make any decent signings.

Gally, Downing, Holtby, Tosin, Cunningham, Walton were a heck of a commitment already this season can't be much room after that lot.

[Guest]

They’ll have to sell Lenihan in the summer. As mentioned above it’ll only be 2021 when the current FFP cycle affects us. So we have this season and next season to either get promoted or to sell off enough assets (players or otherwise) before we’re in breach of rules.

“Under the EFL’s guidelines a points deduction of 12 points is imposed for breaching the spending rules: which is to reduced by reference to the amount of overspending above the upper loss threshold – i.e. £13million.   

The lower the amount overspent, the larger the points deduction. 

So, breaches of less than £2 million would see a reduction of 9 points; and breaches of £15 million or more would see no reduction.”

So effectively within a few seasons, unless we work some magic, Lenihan, Travis, Arma or someone else becomes a £15m footballer, or we get promoted, we could be looking at a points deduction.

[Scotland1]

31 minutes ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Surely FFP would only come into play at the end of the 20/21 season. 
 

Whilst in League 1 we were under a different set of rules 
 

Championship cover maximum losses of £39m over 3 years with presumably Year 1 being last season.

FFP is a load of bollocks anyway with clubs seemingly wriggling out of the rules as they wish

 

 

Exactly what I was thinking. Under scmp league one surely that’s omitted? 

[andyroversmad]

Can't they just get an Indian company to sponsor us for something ridiculous like £10 million and Venky's supply the money for the sponsorship?

[islander200]

If this all true then why was Dack risked in the Wigan game.stupidity if we had agreed to a sale

[bluebruce]

6 hours ago, Miller11 said:

And I expect that they need the money quicker than within 6 months so it’s back to the drawing board

Why? We have until the end of next season before the FUP will be measured.

4 hours ago, andyroversmad said:

Can't they just get an Indian company to sponsor us for something ridiculous like £10 million and Venky's supply the money for the sponsorship?

Not sure if that would escape scrutiny. If you mean get one of their friends to do it, that would mean passing their friends 10 million. Which I assume may be difficult to do legally. I'm sure any legal, transparent way of doing that would be taxable at best. And that any illegal or confiscated way would see them being investigated by Indian authorities again (whatever happened with that in the end, anyone?). Then over on this side I thought the league were meant to be cracking down on these circuitous ways of providing the extra funding.

 

[J*B]

8 hours ago, Miller11 said:

The plan was to sell Dack this window to remain compliant

Well well well...

[Ossydave]

Who's it actually come from that the plan was to sell Dack?

 

[TBTF]

7 hours ago, JHRover said:

So lets suppose after beating Bristol City and being in a rich vein of form and within a few points of 3rd place we had actually kicked on and dispatched poor Wigan, Birmingham and Huddersfield over Christmas and Dack had netted in each and hadn't got injured.

Would the club seriously have gone into January with a 'plan' of selling Dack with the play-offs within our grasp?

If the answer is 'yes' then we need shut of the lot of them, because no club in that position would even entertain such an idea, let alone base FFP compliance on it. If the answer is 'no' it shows that actually there is very little by way of a plan.

I think that FFP is an all to convenient excuse for those running Rovers to hide behind at every turn. Whenever they feel like not spending anything, or selling off an asset or two, they just need to spend a couple of  weeks laying the groundwork for it by trying to implant FFP in the minds of supporters. That way nobody will ever blame our billionaire, kind, benevolent owners. They want to do X,Y, Z but can't because of them nasty rules.

FACT - only Birmingham have been hit with proper sanctions and that was after they took the League on and continued spending despite being told not to. Nobody else has suffered anything. QPR a measly fine after promotion was secured, Sheffield Wednesday are taking them to arbitration and others have found elaborate and creative ways around it.

Having been told after promotion that we were building sustainably, avoiding gambling and were doing it long term to ensure stability if there is even a grain of truth that we are at risk of breaking these rules then heads need to roll.

If they were seriously looking at a sale  and lease back  of the ground as Miller 11 says, and they are thwarted by ACV status which was engineered by Rovers Trust then surely there would have been some dialogue with the Trust. After all , we have just been reading the manifesto of the Trust about  protecting the long term future of the Club  So either this is Just so convenient And  it’s a case of hey ho ,as JH Rover rightly suggests or it won’t be long before they are blaming the Trust for putting the Club in this tricky position . 
If we are so dangerously close to an FFP breach having spent 1/3rd of our 3 year  ‘loss allowance ‘ on Gallagher and. Brereton then I agree they should all be on the bus out of Ewood right now .

I thought Venkys paid a kings ransom for Deloitte and KPMG to come in and sort this out and to avoid all this FFP crap ? Maybe it was not them but bank of India forcing it after all .

whatever, it’s another major roadblock and when-you are already balls deep at £180million you would expect they are getting a little fed up by now with their baby .

The numbers which have been reported tell us that We can’t be far off breaching FFP ( which we can all debate for ever ) but the point is we have once again pressed the self destruct button . You have to rather think that the plan WAS to sell Dack this January which as JH R says would have been an outrage to fans when on the brink of the top 6. Now they could watch him walk for free because by the time he’s fit again he will only have 6 months left on his contract .No wonder he was in floods of tears after Wigan- I’m surprised Waggott wasn’t too .

[OJRovers]

FFP is a smokescreen to distract from venkys not putting more money in. As JH says, other clubs have spent far more and got away with it.

We sold Raya last year so that £3m comes off the losses. The academy costs (£3m pa) are allowed.

Like the last transfer embargo, it would be convenient for everyone at the club as an excuse for not achieving any progress, and staying on the gravy train.

[cesus]

I’m sorry but how can anybody be in any way surprised that this is on the horizon, the management of the club have amassed a playing / coaching staff which costs 140 god damn % of income. Whilst amassing a hideous wage bill the club has a playing staff with one major asset (now injured) and a couple that could provide sticky plasters to prevent a FFP breach. 
 

Financially the writing is on the wall, I’m sorry but that is an absolute fact! Football has allowed clubs to get into these positions with rogue owners and they have absolutely no answers to it.  We are on our own!

[Mashed Potatoes]

If true,disturbing news, if not unexpected.

Personally, I would rather see FFP bite with a points deduction than see Ewood Park sold off. You only have to look at Coventry City's problems to see how inadvisable it is for a club's ground to be owned by someone other than the club.

As I have mentioned before, the EFL look to be getting much tougher with regard to the enforcement of the FFP rules, not least because Steve Gibson and Middlesbrough have got lawyers on the case to see that they do, and the blithe remarks above about what other clubs have done in the past do not address the reality that the club now faces.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Mashed Potatoes

[arbitro]

6 minutes ago, cesus said:

I’m sorry but how can anybody be in any way surprised that this is on the horizon, the management of the club have amassed a playing / coaching staff which costs 140 god damn % of income. Whilst amassing a hideous wage bill the club has a playing staff with one major asset (now injured) and a couple that could provide sticky plasters to prevent a FFP breach. 
 

Financially the writing is on the wall, I’m sorry but that is an absolute fact! Football has allowed clubs to get into these positions with rogue owners and they have absolutely no answers to it.  We are on our own!

Exactly.  Huge losses just don't occur overnight - they have been accumulating for some time. The reckless spending by the club on poor footballers and paying them disproportionately to the level of their ability would be questioned in any other walk of life. 

Whichever way you look at it we are screwed. After almost a decade of shocking ownership we are heading down a black hole. 

[tomphil]

Unless Madame jumped on a plane over here with her lawyers and sorted it herself, somehow using her own money then any ground sale/lease or whatever under this lot would spell outright disaster. 

Yes there might be a bit of immediate money but it wouldn't be funding a promotion drive it'd be just keeping us above water. With all the scrotes and middlemen and advisors let alone the often clueless already there half of it would be pilfered. As we've seen it would be pointless giving Mowbray, Venus and Waggot a spending pot i wouldn't trust them going to the chippy with my dinner money right now.

I've always suspected despite the investment that it was a case of growing another team to flog off again. Get that money back with a bit on top to pay down the BOI overdraft from running costs, all the flies around the pot get their % and then go again.