Middlesbrough (A) - Match Thread

[Mattyblue]

So if someone doesn’t agree with you that  JRC was ‘excellent’, that means they are not ‘giving him a chance’? and ‘you despair’?

 

[RevidgeBlue]

I thought JRC was pretty ineffective yesterday and like another poster abovw I was somewhat underwhelmed given the sort of build up he has had from those who have seen more of him.

Nevertheless it was only his first game so you can't judge him too harshly and I look forward to seeing what he can do given an extended chance. I'd far rather see him and Chapman in the side than Gallagher and Bennett. 

[RevidgeBlue]

5 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Walton has made one or two mistakes this season. The rest of the time he’s been solid to good. Stats are decent too...clean sheets etc.

"One or two?"

He made two mistakes that led to goals away at Forest alone!

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

So if someone doesn’t agree with you that  JRC was ‘excellent’, that means they are not ‘giving him a chance’? and ‘you despair’?

 

Exactly, he definitely deserved a chance, and warrants more especially in the absence of Rothwell and with alternatives (Bennett, Gallagher) not up to it, indeed I specifically stated that I would like to see him given further opportunities.

I'd like to think that to a rational person, my post didnt slate the player, suggest his application wasnt there, write off any future prospect or demand an instant removal from the matchday 18!

Ultimately, young or old, and appreciative that a debutant deserves additional leeway, I can't justify describing the performance of a winger who didnt do anything going forward as excellent.

[arbitro]

I thought Rankin-Costello had a decent game but saying he was excellent is extreme. None of our players were excellent.

Had he been excellent I'm sure he would have played the whole match.

[SkipDonoghue]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

One or two? He has made far more mistakes than that, the one yesterday brings him closer to double figures I would suggest. Brilliant save at the end though.

He plugged away and you cant fault his determination but he didnt do anything from an attacking persepctive, and as a winger who offers nothing going forward, I think its difficult to judge such a performance as anything above ok, certainly not remarkable or excellent.

He seems physically capable, but I would like to see something from an attacking perspective next time he plays.

That's all well and good but you have to control the game from an attacking perspective for that to happen, yesterday once Holtby was taken off that wasn't the case for Rovers, it was dig in and see what we can get JRC showed Mowbray more yesterday than he would of seen from him before, as he showed he was capable of coping with that side of the game also he ain't a winger, why some think he is I don't know, he plays more like an old inside forward, he isn't like Chapman for example who is a winger

Also a quick question did you go yesterday? 

[SkipDonoghue]

3 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I thought Rankin-Costello had a decent game but saying he was excellent is extreme. None of our players were excellent.

Had he been excellent I'm sure he would have played the whole match.

He was taken off due to his head injury which eventually caught up with him, based on all the factors and the fact it was his 1st league start he equitted himself excellently in my opinion  and showed more than anything he is ready to compete at this level, he also made and won more tackles than any other Rovers player, which should point to the fact how hard the team had to work defensivly to get the point and explain maybe why we didn't see to much of him going forward

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

That's all well and good but you have to control the game from an attacking perspective for that to happen, yesterday once Holtby was taken off that wasn't the case for Rovers, it was dig in and see what we can get JRC showed Mowbray more yesterday than he would of seen from him before, as he showed he was capable of coping with that side of the game also he ain't a winger, why some think he is I don't know, he plays more like an old inside forward, he isn't like Chapman for example who is a winger

Also a quick question did you go yesterday? 

Good points. He isn't a winger for sure. Each of 3 apprentices for us, he played from the left. 

I don't know if he ever play under 23's level even? 

[arbitro]

Just now, SkipDonoghue said:

He was taken off due to his head injury which eventually caught up with him, based on all the factors and the fact it was his 1st league start he equitted himself excellently in my opinion  and showed more than anything he is ready to compete at this level, he also made and won more tackles than any other Rovers player, which should point to the fact how hard the team had to work defensivly to get the point and explain maybe why we didn't see to much of him going forward

There is no doubt he acquitted himself well and showed himself to be capable and able to cope with Championship football.

I just think calling his performance excellent is extreme.

[SkipDonoghue]

46 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I thought JRC was pretty ineffective yesterday and like another poster abovw I was somewhat underwhelmed given the sort of build up he has had from those who have seen more of him.

Nevertheless it was only his first game so you can't judge him too harshly and I look forward to seeing what he can do given an extended chance. I'd far rather see him and Chapman in the side than Gallagher and Bennett. 

What do you think you have got in JRC? 

some need to calm down where he is concerned, he isn't the 2nd coming he is a young lad trying to make his way in the game, some expect these lads to be the finished article and ready to take on the world, but in the real world that's not the case, the way some think about young players is baffling to me, its the same with Buckley, give them time and be patient and you may see a decent player emerge, it wasn't long ago Ryan Nyambe was coping it from most, he is now showing 2 years down the line what he is about, if you want instant results your watching the wrong game

[SkipDonoghue]

3 minutes ago, arbitro said:

There is no doubt he acquitted himself well and showed himself to be capable and able to cope with Championship football.

I just think calling his performance excellent is extreme.

Obviously what you consider excellent and what I consider excellent are different, I look at football not from just an attacking perspective but also from the ugly hard work side of things and in that instance for me he was excellent, Mowbray will have been more happy with him from that perspective than anything he may have done against Sheffield Wednesday for example

[RevidgeBlue]

20 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

That's all well and good but you have to control the game from an attacking perspective for that to happen, yesterday once Holtby was taken off that wasn't the case for Rovers, it was dig in and see what we can get JRC showed Mowbray more yesterday than he would of seen from him before, as he showed he was capable of coping with that side of the game also he ain't a winger, why some think he is I don't know, he plays more like an old inside forward, he isn't like Chapman for example who is a winger

Also a quick question did you go yesterday? 

If that's the case, does it not beg the obvious question of why we're expecting a young lad to play out of position on his first start?

It would be hard enough for an experienced player. Why not just put him in his normal position?

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

What do you think you have got in JRC? 

some need to calm down where he is concerned, he isn't the 2nd coming he is a young lad trying to make his way in the game, some expect these lads to be the finished article and ready to take on the world, but in the real world that's not the case, the way some think about young players is baffling to me, its the same with Buckley, give them time and be patient and you may see a decent player emerge, it wasn't long ago Ryan Nyambe was coping it from most, he is now showing 2 years down the line what he is about, if you want instant results your watching the wrong game

I agreed 1000%

I was far too critical of Nyambe. After watching the under 23's more than I did before 4 years ago. Seeing players like Rankin Costello, Travis, Buckley coming through as help me not be so critical of them

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

If that's the case, does it not beg the obvious question of why we're expecting a young lad to play out of position on his first start?

It would be hard enough for an experienced player. Why not just put him in his normal position?

In his 3 apprences for first team each one has been from left wing. 

What is his normal position? 

[tomphil]

6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Nmecha is awful player. 

I agree we need another striker in the summer where I think Graham will leave and Samuel is out of contract. 

Bennett? 

We aren't currently playing that way And I suspect we wont now. 

Rankin Costello was excellent. Got a nasty head injury but still didn't stop him playing well. 

Missing the point again we are on about having somebody like that in the squad for when we need to go direct. 

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

In his 3 apprences for first team each one has been from left wing. 

What is his normal position? 

I've no idea as I haven't seen him play before, I was merely responding to Skip's assertion that he was actually an inside forward as that was not the role he was performing yesterday. 

[SkipDonoghue]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

If that's the case, does it not beg the obvious question of why we're expecting a young lad to play out of position on his first start?

It would be hard enough for an experienced player. Why not just put him in his normal position?

He wasn't played out of position he was played of the left inverted, which is like an old inside forward, but I here all the time he's a winger, he isn't a winger and Rovers don't play with wingers, this is why more than likely one of the reasons Chapman can't get a game, 4-2-3-1 inverted wingers as yesterday (Gallagher and JRC) 

4-4-2, 4-3-3 4-4-1-1 natural wingers eg Chapman, Bennett, Downing etc

[SkipDonoghue]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

In his 3 apprences for first team each one has been from left wing. 

What is his normal position? 

Central midfield holding or attacking behind the striker or as an inverted winger (inside forward) like he is at the min

Right back but is a better right wing back in a five

His worst position is as an out and out winger, he's never been one and never will, he'd be a better centre forward than right winger

[roversfan99]

51 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

That's all well and good but you have to control the game from an attacking perspective for that to happen, yesterday once Holtby was taken off that wasn't the case for Rovers, it was dig in and see what we can get JRC showed Mowbray more yesterday than he would of seen from him before, as he showed he was capable of coping with that side of the game also he ain't a winger, why some think he is I don't know, he plays more like an old inside forward, he isn't like Chapman for example who is a winger

Also a quick question did you go yesterday? 

 

38 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

What do you think you have got in JRC? 

some need to calm down where he is concerned, he isn't the 2nd coming he is a young lad trying to make his way in the game, some expect these lads to be the finished article and ready to take on the world, but in the real world that's not the case, the way some think about young players is baffling to me, its the same with Buckley, give them time and be patient and you may see a decent player emerge, it wasn't long ago Ryan Nyambe was coping it from most, he is now showing 2 years down the line what he is about, if you want instant results your watching the wrong game

No one has said that he is the second coming or that they expect him to be the finished article. Its not a scathing criticism of a winger to suggest that his performance was not excellent. People have commended him on his work rate but ultimately he did absolutely nothing going forward to get excited about, that is pretty conclusive, that doesnt mean that people have given up on him, people are just judging him based on his performance and not massively over exaggerating and over hyping it just because of his age and inexperience.

People are going to judge players, young or experienced on their performances, I am not sure what your alternative is regarding your platitudes about patience. Take Buckley, he is quite blatantly not ready in the eyes of most, yet many have constructively suggested a loan spell at a lower level is best for his development. Not the suggestion of someone lacking patience but indeed looking long term.

And I didn't go but I saw the full game live.

[chaddyrovers]

41 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

No one has said that he is the second coming or that they expect him to be the finished article. Its not a scathing criticism of a winger to suggest that his performance was not excellent. People have commended him on his work rate but ultimately he did absolutely nothing going forward to get excited about, that is pretty conclusive, that doesnt mean that people have given up on him, people are just judging him based on his performance and not massively over exaggerating and over hyping it just because of his age and inexperience.

People are going to judge players, young or experienced on their performances, I am not sure what your alternative is regarding your platitudes about patience. Take Buckley, he is quite blatantly not ready in the eyes of most, yet many have constructively suggested a loan spell at a lower level is best for his development. Not the suggestion of someone lacking patience but indeed looking long term.

And I didn't go but I saw the full game live.

Full game on a TV? 

I was very pleased with his performance from both aspects of the game. He's a young player..

You mention Buckley going on loan to lower league. But the bigger question are they going to use correctly or not? Are they going to develop his game? 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Full game on a TV? 

I was very pleased with his performance from both aspects of the game. He's a young player..

You mention Buckley going on loan to lower league. But the bigger question are they going to use correctly or not? Are they going to develop his game? 

Yeah on a TV.

I know he is a young player. But that alone doesnt justify the title of an excellent performance from a winger when he did nothing going forward. You dont have to keep telling me he is a young player. If you were happy with his attacking contribution then I suspect you are easily pleased and would invite you to remind me of something he did, a shot, a chance created, a cross that may have slipped my mind. Dont re write that denial that his performance was "excellent" into me writing off a young player or thinking he was dreadful.

Well if Buckley stays (is there any scope for lower league loans now?) I would still not recommend that he is put into the first team due to not being nearly ready. So the alternative is to perhaps stagnate somewhat playing kids football. Loan moves always carry a risk and Rovers have been guilty of making incorrect choices regarding loaning out players in the past. But give him to a League 1 or League 2 club that we can be reasonably confident of getting him game time, where it wont cost us.

I am not sure exactly what you mean by develop his game anyway. You have recently defended Mowbrays illogical and unsuccessful use of Gallagher in a wide role, which for me is not positively developing the player at all as he will never be a competent wide man as long as he has a hole in his arse. 

[RevidgeBlue]

I've not seen enough of JRC to make a proper judgement but gut reaction on seeing him for the first time is that if you were to ask me which of him or Buckley is more likely to make the grade I'd say Buckley.

The only way to see if they've got what it takes is to give them both plenty of game time. No-one's ever going to improve if they get the Brereton/Chapman treatment and never play.

[chaddyrovers]

44 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Yeah on a TV.

I know he is a young player. But that alone doesnt justify the title of an excellent performance from a winger when he did nothing going forward. You dont have to keep telling me he is a young player. If you were happy with his attacking contribution then I suspect you are easily pleased and would invite you to remind me of something he did, a shot, a chance created, a cross that may have slipped my mind. Dont re write that denial that his performance was "excellent" into me writing off a young player or thinking he was dreadful.

Well if Buckley stays (is there any scope for lower league loans now?) I would still not recommend that he is put into the first team due to not being nearly ready. So the alternative is to perhaps stagnate somewhat playing kids football. Loan moves always carry a risk and Rovers have been guilty of making incorrect choices regarding loaning out players in the past. But give him to a League 1 or League 2 club that we can be reasonably confident of getting him game time, where it wont cost us.

I am not sure exactly what you mean by develop his game anyway. You have recently defended Mowbrays illogical and unsuccessful use of Gallagher in a wide role, which for me is not positively developing the player at all as he will never be a competent wide man as long as he has a hole in his arse. 

He didn't play on the wing tho. But played more inside and narrower. 

It wasn't that type of game where we were attacking alot. More about digging in and get a goal on the counter goal. 

No Scope for loan moves into league 1 and 2 now. I would rather bring him but into the 1st team during the last 4 months of the season. 

Playing Buckley to his strengths and play him the position we want him to play. No point him going on loan to a team that doesn't play to his strengths. We want to develop him not harm his develop. 

[Ewood Ace]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No Scope for loan moves into league 1 and 2 now. I would rather bring him but into the 1st team during the last 4 months of the season. 

Playing Buckley to his strengths and play him the position we want him to play. No point him going on loan to a team that doesn't play to his strengths. We want to develop him not harm his develop. 

A spell in the national league system or even in the Northern Premier would do wonders for the lad's development. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Ewood Ace

[joey_big_nose]

2 hours ago, SkipDonoghue said:

Central midfield holding or attacking behind the striker or as an inverted winger (inside forward) like he is at the min

Right back but is a better right wing back in a five

His worst position is as an out and out winger, he's never been one and never will, he'd be a better centre forward than right winger

If that's the case Mowbray will play him right wing in no time!