Supporters Consultation Meeting

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Would you mind sharing what TM's plan is?

Thanks.  

[Doogs]

8 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Massive lie.

I never stood up. I’ve told him that at previous meetings and he knows full well my thoughts and reasons. I didn’t proudly do anything... if you remember, Waggott mentioned he spoke to people regularly who went away and never went to Ewood. Bayes then asked if a person who previously mentioned they wouldn’t set foot in Ewood at a previous meeting was in the room. They were, but took a load of abuse last time, so they didn’t say anything.

I’ve been pretty public in my stance for a good few years. I want to go to games, I don’t feel comfortable financially supporting a regime I despise. If not stumping up £300 a year makes me not a fan in your eyes, I won’t lose any sleep.

Hi Miller. I was at the meeting. I respect your views while not agreeing to them. Isn't it time to put to bed the whole Venkys thing. A lot of water has gone under the bridge over the years. We must remember that Venks now fund the club as stated last night.

[Inglorious basturk]

37 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

£1.3m was what was left from last summer, so the budget will be refreshed and also effected by players leaving etc making ‘room’.

One interesting pOint by Cheston was on ffp. He stated clearly that ffp is always judged on this years and the previous two years accounts. Meaning that so long as you lose the same amount every year (and  accumulatively that doesn’t exceed £39m over the three years) then your budget literally refreshes every season and you have the same spending power. If that makes sense.

He also said that whilst our submissions for ffp were due in at the end of the month (feb), but we can make some further adjustments if needed up until the end of June when our accounting period ends.

My observation is that a profit sale like Dack for example every three years would make huge dent in our ability to spend as a £20m fee would effectively make us whole for that year which would increase our spending power over any three year period.

Interesting also (as I’ve said SOOO many times) that in particular Mowbray said on numerous occasions that failing all else, if he really wanted to spend more Money, the owners had told him he only had to ask.

My overriding emotion now following the meeting is that we have a leadership structure who do care passionately about the club.

Mowbray is far from dull. He’s passionate, animated, BRUTALLY honest about himself, his players, the market. I can 100% see why the lads including Jonty and Dunny love him so much. He hasn’t got tons of cash sloshing about but he does have a plan on how to use it better. Which he talked to me about openly and in detail. Based off the meeting and my first ever 10 mins with him one to one, he is absolutely the man to take us on for as long as he has that desire!  

He has had quite some time to take us forward but hasn’t done with any significance 

[OldEwoodBlue]

Mike confirmed thst the FFP rules do include our season in L1. i.e Championship FFP rules are the last 3 years losses, regardless that whilst actually in L1 being measured by SCMP.

Having had that clarified.

2017-18 = £16.8 million

2018-19 = £19.5 million

Meaning this season circa £3 million losses allowed....

He would only repeat his line..."at the moment we are FFP compliant"

If necessary "various adjustments are available to them" before June deadline.

ACV makes any sale and lease back of Ewood difficult (perhaps unlikely).

Players are not shown as assets on the balance sheet so that is available if required (not exactly sure what he meant by that).

Sounded like they had a plan to make said adjustments before June to remain compliant.

 

[OldEwoodBlue]

£1.3 million was budget in Jan.

That makes a mockery of talk of buying players for 2 - 4 mill. Forget it. 

Self imposed wage cap. Will not break it. Many Champ players on £50K and ours are on a quarter.... that's £12.5K so don't believe that myself but the general point stands.

Emphasis on the kids and academy (from Steve) from financial solution POV. Conflict is Tony needing men ready for Champ. Warton will be re-assessed in summer but some weeks he gets bullied at Northampton so still needs to improve to be ready for Champ.

 

Defenders did come. Walton, Tosin, Cunningham.

Accepted back to square 1 in summer.

Sounded like no appetite to actually buy a defender...none really identified who we can afford and fits criteria.

 

We will bring in 2 x GKs in summer.

(remember same said in summer).

Tosin - no chance to buy (£18 mill or something) but will try to get another 6 month loan from City.

Walton was not the GK we wanted. Last minute after Raya left. Nearly sent back in Jan but Tony likes him and wanted give him chance and support him. Personally I am OK with that.

Edited February 7, 2020 by OldEwoodBlue

[Paul Mani]

9 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Massive lie.

I never stood up. I’ve told him that at previous meetings and he knows full well my thoughts and reasons. I didn’t proudly do anything... if you remember, Waggott mentioned he spoke to people regularly who went away and never went to Ewood. Bayes then asked if a person who previously mentioned they wouldn’t set foot in Ewood at a previous meeting was in the room. They were, but took a load of abuse last time, so they didn’t say anything.

I’ve been pretty public in my stance for a good few years. I want to go to games, I don’t feel comfortable financially supporting a regime I despise. If not stumping up £300 a year makes me not a fan in your eyes, I won’t lose any sleep.

Not a lie. You announced it proudly. Had you been looking around at the audiences you’d have seen the disdain.

Wow, hypocrisy of the highest level. You’re not funding Venkys by paying. They’re funding us!! What you are doing by not paying is limiting your teams ability to compete. Which is odd because you seem to have a strong opinion on how the club should be run. Whilst I don’t agree, I completely respect those who have made a moral decision not to go. But to go every week on comps whilst taking the moral high ground is unthinkable for me. I could go complimentary every week too but I choose to pay. We are a million miles apart.

[Mattyblue]

He is a passionate football man, I’ve always liked that about him. As usual his charisma at these meetings come in handy for Waggott and Cheston.

But he is only ‘absolutely the man to take us on for as long as he has that desire’ if he gets results, his ‘desire’, his ‘honesty’ , ‘his passion’ are not how he will be judged (or shouldn’t be).

Edited February 7, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Paul Mani]

58 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

He has had quite some time to take us forward but hasn’t done with any significance 

Opinions.

[Herbie6590]

26 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Mike confirmed thst the FFP rules do include our season in L1. i.e Championship FFP rules are the last 3 years losses, regardless that whilst actually in L1 being measured by SCMP.

Having had that clarified.

2017-18 = £16.8 million

2018-19 = £19.5 million

Meaning this season circa £3 million losses allowed....

He would only repeat his line..."at the moment we are FFP compliant"

If necessary "various adjustments are available to them" before June deadline.

ACV makes any sale and lease back of Ewood difficult (perhaps unlikely).

Players are not shown as assets on the balance sheet so that is available if required (not exactly sure what he meant by that).

Sounded like they had a plan to make said adjustments before June to remain compliant.

 

Calculating FFP losses isn’t just a case of adding up the losses in the club’s accounts. The FFP calculation is a separate one that takes into account allowable expenditure. So for instance the published (accounting) loss might be say £10m but that is calculated after say Academy costs of £3m. The FFP loss therefore would be £7m. This is highly simplistic but hopefully illustrative.

 

 

[Herbie6590]

7 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

That's happened at Ewood before now when we loaned a club our away kit for a League game after the ref ruled against the away kit they had brought with them.  It would appear that it was Mowbray who wanted the third kit because they found the away kit was not always suitable for some colour clashes.

Once again, I thought both Mowbray and Waggott came over very well and clearly have the best interests of the club at heart. 

I thought Mowbray's comments on transfer policy were detailed and open and clearly he has a large say in that area of the club so it was quite right for him to cover that part of the agenda.

The meetings illustrate that the different groups in attendance have different views on certain things so it's not easy for those in charge to find compromises.  Some supporters fully agreed with Mowbray with regard to putting the away fans as far away from the pitch as possible whilst others felt atmosphere was more important and wanted them in the lower tier.  I suspect, and would hope, that Mowbray's view would be the one we follow.  At many away grounds you are either in a corner or upstairs - out of the way - so the noise impact from away fans is reduced.  

We played in our red & black away kit at home to Man City in the early days of the PL as well 

[Herbie6590]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

He is a passionate football man, I’ve always liked that about him. As usual his charisma at these meetings come in handy for Waggott and Cheston.

But he is only ‘absolutely the man to take us on for as long as he has that desire’ if he gets results, his ‘desire’, his ‘honesty’ , ‘his passion’ are not how he will be judged (or shouldn’t be).

I don’t get the disdain for Cheston. He’s an accountant. I know a few and the ones with charisma are very much the exception ? Thankfully none of them are Rovers fans so I might just get away with posting this. ?

 

 

[OldEwoodBlue]

12 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Calculating FFP losses isn’t just a case of adding up the losses in the club’s accounts. The FFP calculation is a separate one that takes into account allowable expenditure. So for instance the published (accounting) loss might be say £10m but that is calculated after say Academy costs of £3m. The FFP loss therefore would be £7m. This is highly simplistic but hopefully illustrative.

 

 

.agreed but the general point stands that we are very close... just not sure how close.

This is why they have taken on 8 new staff at the academy and spent half a million on the pitches.... The headline figures dont tell us the detailed story but they still give us an indicator.

The point is many thought FFP didnt look at our season in L1 but it does.

"adjustments are coming" ?

[Miller11]

14 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Not a lie. You announced it proudly. Had you been looking around at the audiences you’d have seen the disdain.

Wow, hypocrisy of the highest level. You’re not funding Venkys by paying. They’re funding us!! What you are doing by not paying is limiting your teams ability to compete. Which is odd because you seem to have a strong opinion on how the club should be run. Whilst I don’t agree, I completely respect those who have made a moral decision not to go. But to go every week on comps whilst taking the moral high ground is unthinkable for me. I could go complimentary every week too but I choose to pay. We are a million miles apart.

I answered a question honestly. Like I said, other people in the room were in the same boat but didn’t fancy the hassle. Again, I’ve been consistent and open about it publicly for a long time. Did I stand up, or was that an exaggeration for effect? 

Yes, I’m sure Jonty or someone else would shower you with tickets. But your 0.005% of Brereton’s fee a year is a small price for the particular piece of moral high ground you like to stand on.

[Mattyblue]

13 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

I don’t get the disdain for Cheston. He’s an accountant. I know a few and the ones with charisma are very much the exception ? Thankfully none of them are Rovers fans so I might just get away with posting this. ?

 

 

I don’t expect him to have any that’s the point.  Dry topics, yet vital ones and it seems that TM is wheeled out to take up half the meeting with his ‘jumpers for goalposts’ routine and what fan wouldn’t love to hear it, even if you went with the best intentions to talk about other matters.

[RoversClitheroe]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

£1.3m was what was left from last summer, so the budget will be refreshed and also effected by players leaving etc making ‘room’.

One interesting pOint by Cheston was on ffp. He stated clearly that ffp is always judged on this years and the previous two years accounts. Meaning that so long as you lose the same amount every year (and  accumulatively that doesn’t exceed £39m over the three years) then your budget literally refreshes every season and you have the same spending power. If that makes sense.

He also said that whilst our submissions for ffp were due in at the end of the month (feb), but we can make some further adjustments if needed up until the end of June when our accounting period ends.

My observation is that a profit sale like Dack for example every three years would make huge dent in our ability to spend as a £20m fee would effectively make us whole for that year which would increase our spending power over any three year period.

Interesting also (as I’ve said SOOO many times) that in particular Mowbray said on numerous occasions that failing all else, if he really wanted to spend more Money, the owners had told him he only had to ask.

My overriding emotion now following the meeting is that we have a leadership structure who do care passionately about the club.

Mowbray is far from dull. He’s passionate, animated, BRUTALLY honest about himself, his players, the market. I can 100% see why the lads including Jonty and Dunny love him so much. He hasn’t got tons of cash sloshing about but he does have a plan on how to use it better. Which he talked to me about openly and in detail. Based off the meeting and my first ever 10 mins with him one to one, he is absolutely the man to take us on for as long as he has that desire!  

That plans really paid off so far.

[Miller11]

1 hour ago, Doogs said:

Hi Miller. I was at the meeting. I respect your views while not agreeing to them. Isn't it time to put to bed the whole Venkys thing. A lot of water has gone under the bridge over the years. We must remember that Venks now fund the club as stated last night.

I don’t think they deserve credit for continuing to fund their own mess.
 

It would certainly be easier to, and in all honesty with Waggott and Mowbray, two people who I like and feel are positive and decent, it’s getting closer. Unfortunately the issues with Venkys I believe remain. I do t think they have learnt a thing.

[Doogs]

8 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I don’t think they deserve credit for continuing to fund their own mess.
 

It would certainly be easier to, and in all honesty with Waggott and Mowbray, two people who I like and feel are positive and decent, it’s getting closer. Unfortunately the issues with Venkys I believe remain. I do t think they have learnt a thing.

Hi Miller

Thanks for your reply. Venkys fund the club monthly as the FD stated last night. What would you like them to do, that would satisfy you?

[Paul Mani]

10 hours ago, Tom said:

I think if you go on behalf of a group, the forum in this case it’s expected you would report it back to that group.

 

I’m happy to talk about anything which was public record to anyone on here. Most has been covered. 

[Paul Mani]

21 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I answered a question honestly. Like I said, other people in the room were in the same boat but didn’t fancy the hassle. Again, I’ve been consistent and open about it publicly for a long time. Did I stand up, or was that an exaggeration for effect? 

Yes, I’m sure Jonty or someone else would shower you with tickets. But your 0.005% of Brereton’s fee a year is a small price for the particular piece of moral high ground you like to stand on.

Penny’s make pounds brother and owt is better than nowt! Like I said....we have very little in common in relation to this.

[RoversClitheroe]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

I’m happy to talk about anything which was public record to anyone on here. Most has been covered. 

Sorry Paul, I'm pretty certain he'd say what he said to you to anyone else. That's the first time you've met him right? So can't be mates or anything? So is it really 'off the record'?

[Guest]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

I’m happy to talk about anything which was public record to anyone on here. Most has been covered. 

Well at least divulge the topic, last time there was a SCM all the private conversations got relayed onto Social Media & here. TM & Co.. know that people will tell other people about what they discuss, a "private chat" at an open forum for mega fans of the club isn't EVER going to remain private - so I highly doubt he said anything he wanted to remain top secret...

[Paul Mani]

19 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I don’t think they deserve credit for continuing to fund their own mess.
 

It would certainly be easier to, and in all honesty with Waggott and Mowbray, two people who I like and feel are positive and decent, it’s getting closer. Unfortunately the issues with Venkys I believe remain. I do t think they have learnt a thing.

Tell that to Bolton fans...mad mad view this! 

[Guest]

I sat in that same room in August 2019, and listened to an Neil Yardley chat with Tony Mowbray & Charlie Mulgrew.
TM said that he was hopeful we could compete with the defence we had, that he trusted Charlie as our captain, and then in a private conversation Elliott Bennett said the squad had an internal target to finish 6th and above. He firmly believed they could do it, and I could see he meant it.

A matter of days later and Charlie Mulgrew is at Wigan on loan.

I don't trust a thing that's said at these meetings anymore.

[Mattyblue]

Does make me chuckle how star struck and proud as punch Paul is just for spending some time with club employees,
 

I thought it was a regular occurrence? 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Miller11]

8 minutes ago, Doogs said:

Hi Miller

Thanks for your reply. Venkys fund the club monthly as the FD stated last night. What would you like them to do, that would satisfy you?

At the moment we are completely reliant on them. I know that.

They have put themselves in a position through their own mismanagement where they have to keep ploughing in good money after bad to ensure we remain a going concern. Failure to do so would wipe £200 million off their company value overnight, so it’s not benevolence, it’s sound business strategy for them.

Like I stated earlier, these meetings don’t really serve the purpose they were introduced for while they are in the current format. The big question I wanted answering last night was this:

 

Tony Mowbray, Owen Coyle and Paul Lambert are all represented by HSH. All of their appointments were a little strange.

HSH has three directors listed with companies house, namely, Stephen Horner, Dave Sheron, and Craig Honeyman.

Honeyman is a former director of SEM. Horner and Sheron are both former SEM employees and were named alongside Myles’s Daddy in a lawsuit brought about by Gavin McCann, which suggests they work together closely.

 

Why are these people still having significant influence in what happens at the club, if Venkys have indeed learnt from their mistakes?