Supporters Consultation Meeting

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

very easy for people like yourself to criticise the manager, CEO and the recruitment department while the truth is you don't really know what on in January window. it would be great to be inside the club and see everything going on with the signing and recruitment department but we cant. I know that Leeds have been wanting a striker in and only just about did it. 

Bottom line is we didn't sign a single player and the team hasn't been improved.

In my books, the window has therefore been an abysmal failure as every club should be looking to move forward.

There are simply no excuses.

If Mowbray and Waggott can't do any better then they should be replaced by folk who can.

[tomphil]

42 minutes ago, Hasta said:

That's like saying someone spiked his drink and consequent statements and legal action corroborates that.

Venkys had a full season of mediocrity to sack him and didn't. He probably had half the squad and most people based at Ewood hating his presence around the place at the end, with all his allies off site or in India. Also, Shebby was shooting his mouth off on Sky and radio slagging Kean off, which was a godsend for his lawyers to launch the 'forced out' legal action.

If Venkys wanted him gone because of his results, which was the original point', they would have simply sacked him. 

He'd have been sacked long before if that was the case i think the general feeling was they couldn't sack him. I reckon it took a lot of internal heaving to unseat that parasite. Also i reckon he'd have only jumped when he'd gathered enough bullets to try and fire off the old 'forced to resign' line.

More cunning than a manky old fox him.

[DE.]

7 minutes ago, tomphil said:

He'd have been sacked long before if that was the case i think the general feeling was they couldn't sack him. I reckon it took a lot of internal heaving to unseat that parasite. Also i reckon he'd have only jumped when he'd gathered enough bullets to try and fire off the old 'forced to resign' line.

More cunning than a manky old fox him.

Yeah, I think it was clear that there was something stopping Venky's from outright removing Kean from his post. Whether that was contractual or something more sinister we'll probably never know, but the fact they had to bring in Shebby to basically make Kean uncomfortable to the point where he'd rather walk away than continue speaks volumes. I doubt the owners cared much about the legal payoff as long as Kean eventually left. As for Kean himself, he no doubt timed it perfectly to ensure he got as much possible out of the club after he left.

The fact he has never had another job in the UK or indeed any remotely decent league since then says a lot. He was a very highly regarded coach before slithering into the manager's seat here so his apparent exile from any reputable footballing league or club is evidence in of itself that something very shady was going on here imo.

Edited February 7, 2020 by DE.

[chaddyrovers]

57 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Whatever the reasons and excuses are, it was a failure of a window, no matter how you try to dress it up or distract. Ultimately, Mowbray and Waggott both admitted as much. We required reinforcements, the manager wanted reinforcements, and he was unable to bring them in. No matter why or how, it was an unsuccessful window and not the first unsuccessful one. I am not saying that it is easy or that there arent hurdles to overcome but ultimately the failure to improve a team in need of improvements is a bad window. You dont need to be a fly on any wall to make that judgement and it seems that no one shares that opinion more than the 2 members of staff that you are defending.

How are they excuses when they are facts? We need to understand the reasons why players weren't signed. Think @Miller11 mention about Waggott not over paying for agents fees to secure signings or the wages of some young players at PL clubs is over our wage bill. Or would you rather break the wage structure at the club or over pay Players agents? Did you see Mowbray's comment that he wont sign a player if the club and recruitment player haven't scouting them? surely this is the right approach? 

Yes we didn't make the signings we want but we didn't lose key players like some people said we would on here

57 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I am judging him based on tangible aspects of the club in which I can have an opinion on. There are various aspects to ticketing (and marketing) which I feel he has got wrong and which have helped lead to a repeated inability to hit various targets.

You (or anyone) havent really explained what he has done that is positive aside from suggesting that his heart is in the right place which I dont doubt.

I suppose ticketing failures are fairly unimportant though if he is kind enough to ask fellow employees how they are feeling! Like I said, I am sure he is a nice bloke but it is fairly irrelevant, just as it is with Mowbray.

No its irrelevant to you not to everyone as asking how people are is part of job of management. 

The prices of games is set by him and owners as we have to raise so much money through that. He did say he persuaded the owners to keep the season ticket prices at the same price. Fans have to start backing the team and if the want team back to PL then they need to some commit whilst the club need to offer tickets at reasonable prices like I have suggest Kids for 1 pound a game. 2O pounds for adults. Season tickets for Adults around 300 pounds per season. Stuff like that. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How are they excuses when they are facts? We need to understand the reasons why players weren't signed. Think @Miller11 mention about Waggott not over paying for agents fees to secure signings or the wages of some young players at PL clubs is over our wage bill. Or would you rather break the wage structure at the club or over pay Players agents? Did you see Mowbray's comment that he wont sign a player if the club and recruitment player haven't scouting them? surely this is the right approach? 

Yes we didn't make the signings we want but we didn't lose key players like some people said we would on here

No its irrelevant to you not to everyone as asking how people are is part of job of management. 

The prices of games is set by him and owners as we have to raise so much money through that. He did say he persuaded the owners to keep the season ticket prices at the same price. Fans have to start backing the team and if the want team back to PL then they need to some commit whilst the club need to offer tickets at reasonable prices like I have suggest Kids for 1 pound a game. 2O pounds for adults. Season tickets for Adults around 300 pounds per season. Stuff like that. 

Excuses, facts, reasons, whatever the reason, we didnt sign players that we needed and wanted. That makes the window a failure and based on the comments by Mowbray and Waggott they both would be the first to agree.

I dont think anyone bar Mercer predicted any major sales. Ultimately we didnt end the window in the position we wanted to and hoped for at the start. You are manipulating the conversation to suggest that I want us to pay over the odds etc, but there are plenty of other players out there. We wanted  tostrengthen and we didnt strengthen, its a simple as that. 

[tomphil]

9 minutes ago, DE. said:

Yeah, I think it was clear that there was something stopping Venky's from outright removing Kean from his post. Whether that was contractual or something more sinister we'll probably never know, but the fact they had to bring in Shebby to basically make Kean uncomfortable to the point where he'd rather walk away than continue speaks volumes. I doubt the owners cared much about the legal payoff as long as Kean eventually left. As for Kean himself, he no doubt timed it perfectly to ensure he got as much possible out of the club after he left.

The fact he has never had another job in the UK or indeed any remotely decent league since then says a lot. He was a very highly regarded coach before slithering into the manager's seat here so his apparent exile from any reputable footballing league or club is evidence in of itself that something very shady was going on here imo.

Not sure he was that highly regarded as a coach Big Sam took him off the rock and roll didn't he ?

Then again the snake was probably waiting knowing that opportunity was coming, i wonder who really got him into Ewood !

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You are manipulating the conversation to suggest that I want us to pay over the odds etc, but there are plenty of other players out there.

No I asking you specific questions on recruitment matters. 

Its a great line that they are plenty of players out there but we don't the fees, players wages, agent fees, have Rovers scouting the player as we don't sign player unless we have scouting them, etc

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I suppose the problem is, it is all well and good putting your hands up but you look at the last 4 windows, twice when supposedly gearing up for a sustained play off push, we have allowed transfer windows to lapse without strengthening, and in the last 2 summer ones, the vast majority of our budget has spent on 2 players who have not improved us at all, and actions speak louder than words.

I dont doubt that some decent signings, Downing, Adarabioyo and Reed for example have been made during that time but they arent improving us long term. The only player that has improved us long term has been Armstrong and it is only really now that he is proving that on a sustained basis.

Have you forgotten about Dack? How ?

Edited February 7, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Have you forgotten about Dack? How ?

No, he was 6 windows ago, I was referring to the last 4 windows in the Championship.

I mentioned Dack as an obvious undeniable point of praise in my analaysis of Mowbray earlier.

[Miller11]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How are they excuses when they are facts? We need to understand the reasons why players weren't signed. Think @Miller11 mention about Waggott not over paying for agents fees to secure signings or the wages of some young players at PL clubs is over our wage bill. Or would you rather break the wage structure at the club or over pay Players agents? Did you see Mowbray's comment that he wont sign a player if the club and recruitment player haven't scouting them? surely this is the right approach? 

Yes we didn't make the signings we want but we didn't lose key players like some people said we would on here

No its irrelevant to you not to everyone as asking how people are is part of job of management. 

The prices of games is set by him and owners as we have to raise so much money through that. He did say he persuaded the owners to keep the season ticket prices at the same price. Fans have to start backing the team and if the want team back to PL then they need to some commit whilst the club need to offer tickets at reasonable prices like I have suggest Kids for 1 pound a game. 2O pounds for adults. Season tickets for Adults around 300 pounds per season. Stuff like that. 

I get the impression that Mowbray, Waggott and Cheston between them have to really have their fingers on the pulse when it comes to FFP. Mowbray said there was pressure from the owners to sign someone. No mention of this was a specific price, position or player (kind of wish I’d asked). Again, just speculation, but maybe this is a contributing factor to why we overpaid for Brereton and the weird circumstances around the deal.

The entire set up is odd. Waggott needing sign off to run a ticket promotion. I thought that’d be well within his day to day remit. Then on the other hand they are trying their best to throw cash around like drunken sailors. Their level of involvement seems inconsistent.

I agree we need to increase ticket revenue, but we’d need to sell 60,000 season tickets at £300 to break even.

Nothing more than a prediction, but I expect a significant player sale at the end of the season to ensure we keep within the FFP threshold. I’m pretty relaxed about this. Needs must. I’d much prefer this than selling Ewood.

[Mattyblue]

But who’s being sold for any decent amount? Dack was the golden egg.

Oh sorry, it’s Buckley for 8 figures! But no, in the real world, who would we be getting anything particularly substantial for? Travis, Lenihan or Nyambe are the only candidates and are they going to fetch anything ‘significant’, in reality?
 

[Miller11]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

But who’s being sold for any decent amount? Dack was the golden egg.

Oh sorry, it’s Buckley for 8 figures! But no, in the real world, who would we be getting anything particularly substantial for? Travis, Lenihan or Nyambe are the only candidates and are they going to fetch anything ‘significant’, in reality?
 

Maybe two of them. I’d say Armstrong would be another. Suppose it depends on the level of any shortfall. Prices can be crazy these days, although we didn’t do well at all on Raya. With the apparent shock market values have caused this window, you’d hope they’d be aiming for decent fees for our better players.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes January window wasn't what we expect if the players we want were expensive or agent telling Rovers that one player is available for x amount then when you ask the club about the player the fee is nothing like what you were told. Or Player agent demand far too much money for him or the player wages are too much for a loan. I remember watching a video with Wilder on deadline day and the chaos it is during a window or the Netflix series Sunderland till I die when Sunderland CEO Martin Bain and Manager Chris Coleman thought they had Chris Martin deal done after days of talks and then he went to Reading. 

It is incredible easy for us fans to say X , Y and Z without being a fly on the wall. 

I'm looking forward to now we got the European scouting network set up and Someone who is European running it. Hopefully he has lots of contacts over the Continent.

 

From what I read Brexit is going to make hunting for players in the European market at lot more difficult. Especially regarding the sort of lower ranking European players we'll be looking at in the future.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[chaddyrovers]

25 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

 

Nothing more than a prediction, but I expect a significant player sale at the end of the season to ensure we keep within the FFP threshold. I’m pretty relaxed about this. Needs must. I’d much prefer this than selling Ewood.

Ryan Nyambe could be this player. Palace need a right back. 

[tomphil]

13 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

But who’s being sold for any decent amount? Dack was the golden egg.

Oh sorry, it’s Buckley for 8 figures! But no, in the real world, who would we be getting anything particularly substantial for? Travis, Lenihan or Nyambe are the only candidates and are they going to fetch anything ‘significant’, in reality?
 

Don't think it would need to be a massive amount just to keep ticking over.

Raya went last time for about 3 mill so I'd expect something similar this time.

[Mattyblue]

Selling your top talent for that kind of money is a false economy, how do you replace them? As you aren’t getting like for like from the Academy or in the transfer maket if you are spending pennies. So, loans, as we’ve seen with Raya.

How do we then improve (which surely is the whole point) if we aren’t getting proper value for our star players? Makes the whole ‘model’ a waste of time.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Mattyblue

[tomphil]

Agree but they are probably easier to sell if you need a few quid quick.

A wrong way to go about it better just offing a load of non contributers off the wage bill.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Ryan Nyambe could be this player. Palace need a right back. 

I don't think he's at that level yet.

[47er]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes January window wasn't what we expect if the players we want were expensive or agent telling Rovers that one player is available for x amount then when you ask the club about the player the fee is nothing like what you were told. Or Player agent demand far too much money for him or the player wages are too much for a loan. 

Every club faces these challenges when they try to strengthen their team.

All managed to sign at least one new player except Rovers.

Why is that?

[Inglorious basturk]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Excuses, facts, reasons, whatever the reason, we didnt sign players that we needed and wanted. That makes the window a failure and based on the comments by Mowbray and Waggott they both would be the first to agree.

I dont think anyone bar Mercer predicted any major sales. Ultimately we didnt end the window in the position we wanted to and hoped for at the start. You are manipulating the conversation to suggest that I want us to pay over the odds etc, but there are plenty of other players out there. We wanted  tostrengthen and we didnt strengthen, its a simple as that. 

It’s so exhausting . Someone in authority tells you something and that’s that . 
 

I love my football club , I want more for them, I know there are people who can do something , I won’t just accept anything 

[JHRover]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes January window wasn't what we expect if the players we want were expensive or agent telling Rovers that one player is available for x amount then when you ask the club about the player the fee is nothing like what you were told. Or Player agent demand far too much money for him or the player wages are too much for a loan. I remember watching a video with Wilder on deadline day and the chaos it is during a window or the Netflix series Sunderland till I die when Sunderland CEO Martin Bain and Manager Chris Coleman thought they had Chris Martin deal done after days of talks and then he went to Reading. 

It is incredible easy for us fans to say X , Y and Z without being a fly on the wall. 

I'm looking forward to now we got the European scouting network set up and Someone who is European running it. Hopefully he has lots of contacts over the Continent.

 

Not this nonsense again. How do all the other clubs in the Championship and below sign players if it is so difficult?

Our wage bill is mid-table. Our CEO has said the same. Our losses indicate that to be the case. Without sales we have, allegedly, spent £15 million since 2018.

The 'woe is us' attitude that we are poor victims of clubs, players and managers moving goalposts and taking the mick out of us i just don't accept. As above - other clubs at this level, including ones with inferior resources to us, are able to get their targets in the building.

Two years running now we have failed. Once you could put down to bad luck or misfortune, but twice in a row suggests there is a structural failure with our recruitment department. 

[roversfan99]

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Not this nonsense again. How do all the other clubs in the Championship and below sign players if it is so difficult?

Our wage bill is mid-table. Our CEO has said the same. Our losses indicate that to be the case. Without sales we have, allegedly, spent £15 million since 2018.

The 'woe is us' attitude that we are poor victims of clubs, players and managers moving goalposts and taking the mick out of us i just don't accept. As above - other clubs at this level, including ones with inferior resources to us, are able to get their targets in the building.

Two years running now we have failed. Once you could put down to bad luck or misfortune, but twice in a row suggests there is a structural failure with our recruitment department. 

I totally agree with what you say and that there is blame to be given. But even if you chose to suggest that the restrictions and the market put things totally out of our hands, you can at least admit that it has been a poor window! Even Mowbray and Waggott said it was.

[Mercer]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

How are they excuses when they are facts? We need to understand the reasons why players weren't signed. Think @Miller11 mention about Waggott not over paying for agents fees to secure signings or the wages of some young players at PL clubs is over our wage bill. Or would you rather break the wage structure at the club or over pay Players agents? Did you see Mowbray's comment that he wont sign a player if the club and recruitment player haven't scouting them? surely this is the right approach? 

@chaddyrovershink IMO, it's all smoke and mirrors, bullsh1t and b0ll0cks and sadly some fans buy it.

I've read a number of posts on here over the last 24 hours with some posters waxing lyrical about Mowbray and Waggott also stating they've the club's best interests at heart.  All our supporters have the club's best interests at heart including you yourself, however, it doesn't mean you are competent or savvy enough to manage / run the club!

IMO, it's all feckin nonsense.  You don't go shopping at Harrods if you only have a Poundland budget.  You find the rough diamonds and feckin polish them.

IMO, as a club we are, at best, stagnating.  One poster talked about Mowbray and Waggott laying foundations - well at this rate, I think it will be the year 3000 before the house is built providing the structure hasn't already collapsed into the ground!

What has Waggott done as our CEO to advance the club?  What has Mowbray done to advance our club?  IMO, we are only marginally better off than we were when Mowbray arrived 3 years ago.  Make no mistake, this summer, IMO, will be a massive rebuilding job with anything from 8 to 10 players needed (when arguably we should have needed only a couple of quality signings to take us to the next level) and we will be as far away from the PL as we have ever been as a Championship club.  Other than the odd exception, I think the player trading (I don't refer to it as player trading strategy because as far as I can see we don't have a strategy!) under Mowbray and Waggott has been very, very poor and IMO, where we will find ourselves in the summer will be almost entirely down to their incompetence.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Mercer

[only2garners]

Several pages ago it was said that the meeting spent too long talking about away fans in the Darwen End and that this was something more suited to the Fans Forum. I’ll fess up that I put the item on the agenda (even though I didn’t go to the meeting as I’m away on holiday). Generally the Forum doesn’t put questions forward as we have 6 meetings a year to talk to club management so we leave it to others who don’t . But on this issue we have talked a few times and it’s pretty clear that Steve Waggott now agrees with us that it would be better for atmosphere in the ground if the away fans were closer to the pitch, but that it is Mowbray and the team management who don’t- hence our need to ask the question of Mowbray.

Of course neither I nor anyone else from the Forum could control how long the item went on for.

[Stuart]

5 hours ago, only2garners said:

Several pages ago it was said that the meeting spent too long talking about away fans in the Darwen End and that this was something more suited to the Fans Forum. I’ll fess up that I put the item on the agenda (even though I didn’t go to the meeting as I’m away on holiday). Generally the Forum doesn’t put questions forward as we have 6 meetings a year to talk to club management so we leave it to others who don’t . But on this issue we have talked a few times and it’s pretty clear that Steve Waggott now agrees with us that it would be better for atmosphere in the ground if the away fans were closer to the pitch, but that it is Mowbray and the team management who don’t- hence our need to ask the question of Mowbray.

Of course neither I nor anyone else from the Forum could control how long the item went on for.

Finally something Mowbray and I agree on.

Why on earth would you lobby to make it easier for away fans to put pressure on the officials? Losing games does nothing for the atmosphere.