Supporters Consultation Meeting

[JHRover]

  On 09/02/2020 at 17:40, Herbie6590 said:

1. Legal - but only if true market value - if it's legal, it's compliant within the rules so not "circumventing" as such

2. Legal - but only if true market value - but Rovers Trust put an ACV on Ewood & the value of the stadium will I suspect be relatively small beer - kicks the can down the road for one season

3. Legal - but only if true market value

4. Not Legal - so opening up to a challenge from EFL which could involve financial & points penalties

5. Massive grey area - I suspect Derby will spend a lot on lawyers trying to prove it's within the rules

 

The Price Of Football podcast by Kieran Maguire is a terrific resource for this stuff if anyone's interested.

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So all but one of the options that I've just come up with in my head in 30 seconds are within the rules as ways of getting around FFP. Yet we've not done any of them, instead just hiding behind the rules when it suits.

 

 

[OldEwoodBlue]

  On 09/02/2020 at 17:31, JHRover said:

Sponsor the stadium, stands or training ground, either with third parties or in the cases of Birmingham and Sheffield Wednesday by the owners directly.

'Sell' the stadium or training ground to another company under the owner's control, knowing full well it can be transferred back for nothing in future.

Bring in sponsorship from companies linked to the owners e.g. Visit Malaysia at Cardiff.

Invent fake companies to sponsor us e.g. D Taxis at Hillsborough 

Get a third party to pay the wages of players e.g. Derby and Rooney.

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At the meeting, Mike said there were a number of options available to them should they need to make adjustments to the revenue.

1. They are already doing this. We asked about the venky adverts around the stadium and in particular the Riverside (was RFS) and the electronic boards.

It was confirmed they have a monetary value for us. We probed,  does that mean Venkys pay for it and the answer was yes i.e. Venkys are being invoiced for a proportional value for all the in stadium advertising.

 

2. They well know that any sale involves a process due to th ACV in place. They were followed up on it and said its not something they need to look to do at present.... i.e. probably a last resort but certainly the process cannot be kept under the radar.

 

3. If proprtional value.

4. Doubt fake invoices (fraud) would pass any scrutiny.

5. Not sure. I know he mentioned something about teams buying players booked against the academy. i.e. their fee and wages are exempt if academy players.

 

What he did say was that the players were not listed as assets on the balance sheet and it was something open to them as long as its proportional.

I didn't know exactly what he meant but I guess he means have all the players valued and show them on the p&L as fixed assets thereby getting a big (on paper) steroid injection to the profit. At the moment I think they are down as intangible assets.

 

For certain they appeared relaxed as if they will whatever to comply before the June deadline. They have certainly assessed all their available options.

 

Last point. I suspect the possible reluctance (if that is the case) to rename the Riverside after Tony Parkes, could be due to the commercial implications. i.e. It is presently called the Venkys Riverside (name sold for commercial revenue as you suggest) if not known publically.

Edited February 9, 2020 by OldEwoodBlue

[Vinjay]

  On 09/02/2020 at 20:10, OldEwoodBlue said:

any sale involves a process due to th ACV in place. They were followed up on it and said its not something they need to look to do at present.... i.e. probably a last resort but certainly the process cannot be kept under the radar.

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Well Derby County/Villa managed it. Still waiting for an answer on that which perhaps nobody knows but the Rovers Trust should have looked into it right away. It does seem however that there will be notification here if the club chose to take that route. Who would be able to stop Venkys selling it to themselves anyway and who would want to given the situation? Fake bidding war?

Edited February 9, 2020 by Vinjay

[OldEwoodBlue]

  On 09/02/2020 at 20:54, Vinjay said:

Well Derby County/Villa managed it. Still waiting for an answer on that which perhaps nobody knows but the Rovers Trust should have looked into it right away. It does seem however that there will be notification here if the club chose to take that route. Who would be able to stop Venkys selling it to themselves anyway and who would want to given the situation? Fake bidding war?

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From memory, the ACV doesn't in any way prevent the sale. But they have to give the trust the opportunity to buy it first. Therefore the cat will be out the bag at an early stage.

In any case the eventual outcome would be the sale but the legal process would probably be protracted. I guess they would need a sale completed before June.

Undoubtably this is still an option they will pursue if they have to.

[tomphil]

Let the trust buy it for a modest sum with an agreed sell back clause. That money goes to the manager with instruction from the trust to put it towards a right winger, nothing else.

Then Vs buy it back for a large amount. Therefore putting a wad in the pot and resetting FFP etc.

Winner all around and next best thing to fan representation ?

[Miller11]

The ACV allows the trust a period of 6 months to formulate a bid.

I’m assuming that they have to be notified before any sale goes ahead, and then the clock is ticking. How much chance there would be if raising adequate funds, or how much could actually be done if Venky’s were determined enough I don’t know.

What it does prevent is a quick, quiet deal.

It also prevents a ground sale being used as a get out of jail card. The quickest they can raise any cash would be 6 months. So if the FFP threshold is June, they’d need to have stated their intent to the trust before now.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Miller11
Typo

[Proudtobeblue&white]

It's just very depressing being at the behest of rich none loving football owners. If we had Jack back, he'd have had the TP signs up last week. None of this looking at options bollocks. Waggott should have strings attached, he's such a puppet.

[Vinjay]

For goodness sake I know there's not much to the ACV other than 6 months notice. The point YET AGAIN is how did Villa do it when there was no notice to the community at all? Trying not to be patronising but people sure make it difficult.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Vinjay

[davulsukur]

  On 09/02/2020 at 22:41, Vinjay said:

For goodness sake I know there's not much to the ACV other than 6 months notice. The point YET AGAIN is how did Villa do it when there was no notice to the community at all? Trying not to be patronising but people sure make it difficult.

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Maybe drop a line to the Villa trust. They put a statement on their website voicing concern over the deal, despite securing an ACV on Villa Park: https://villatrust.org.uk/villa-park/

Point 1 on their agenda for the meet up with the club was the sale of villa park but it doesn't clear it up much in the way of getting around the ACV: https://villatrust.org.uk/fans-consultation-group-meeting-4/

You would imagine, those guys would be the ones who know the answer.

[Exiled in Toronto]

  On 08/02/2020 at 14:39, RoversClitheroe said:

An aim creates an expectation

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In the real world, aims and objectives differ in that aims are aspirational, measured relatively and only broadly time-bound “We aim to be the world’s leading service provider by 2025” while objectives are usually more specific, time-limited and independently verifiable “Increase service level response time from 2 to 1.5 days by September 2020.”

If you achieved all your aims this year, you weren’t aiming high enough.

I would say out of Mowbray’s many mumblings, top 6 was an aim, better than 60 points an objective.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Exiled in Toronto

[Guest]

  On 10/02/2020 at 14:27, MCMC1875 said:

I don't care whether they are good honest people, come across exceptionally well or have the club at heart. Waggott, Mowbray and all other managers under Venkys have been bang average or worse. We have been in the play off places for one week.

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Who would be your ideal manager? Or manager/CEO duo?

Just out of interest. I don't necessarily disagree, I think TM gets away with a lot because of a L1 promotion that most managers could've achieved with the squad we had.

[Leonard Venkhater]

  On 08/02/2020 at 18:50, K-Hod said:

Hi James, you’re clearly reading this and I see you’ve made me twitter famous without my permission. 
I don’t do twitter, so I can’t reply on there, but I don’t allow you my permission to post my content, so delete the post and we can leave it there. Thanks.

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Ah, but it is a "known known". We both know that he knows that you don't do twitter..

That is exactly why he makes his comments, where you cannot reply or challenge his slurs.

[K-Hod]

  On 10/02/2020 at 22:32, Leonard Venkhater said:

Ah, but it is a "known known". We both know that he knows that you don't do twitter..

That is exactly why he makes his comments, where you cannot reply or challenge his slurs.

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I wouldn’t worry about that, various steps have been made to prevent a repeat.....

[Mike E]

  On 10/02/2020 at 14:27, MCMC1875 said:

I don't care whether they are good honest people, come across exceptionally well or have the club at heart. Waggott, Mowbray and all other managers under Venkys have been bang average or worse. We have been in the play off places for one week.

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No we haven't, it was one hour!

[tomphil]

  On 10/02/2020 at 14:27, MCMC1875 said:

I don't care whether they are good honest people, come across exceptionally well or have the club at heart. Waggott, Mowbray and all other managers under Venkys have been bang average or worse. We have been in the play off places for one week.

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Jacks mantra in business as well as football was surround yourself with the best you can get for every role. Pay them well, back them but if they don't live up to your requirements shake their hand and get someone else who will.

That's never ever been in evidence with Venkys its only ever been get in SEM/Kentaro or affiliates people or recommendations and line all their pockets one way or another. Getting in the best has never entered their clueless heads unless you count the best puppets and yes men.

That's the main reason we'll go nowhere not TM, Bowyer, Lambert or any other but that lots policy of who they bring in to run their hobby.

[47er]

  On 09/02/2020 at 10:37, chaddyrovers said:

Well I was at step daughter parent evening so patronising comments. Time to use the ignore button with you. If I don't reply to you or other people it's more likely you are on the ignore list

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Be easier to list whose NOT on it!

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 08/02/2020 at 17:39, LDRover said:

They cost less than that when they were signed so it can be done. In my opinion there'll be nobody happier than TM with our injury and FFP situation - he gets a free pass until next season now.

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Nonsense 

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 08/02/2020 at 19:03, Stuart said:

Disagreeing while sticking to the debate topic.

“The adults are talking“ amongst other barbs crosses that line and you certainly don’t like it when anyone points out that you don’t attend matches.

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"crosses the line" 

Stuart, you are far too sensitive. I hope you aren't the same in real life! 

I don't care if someone says that, I just point out that it doesn't make an opinion any less valid. So not sure what you're shiteing on about!  Oh sorry, I didn't mean to say the mean word. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 08/02/2020 at 20:37, Oldgregg86 said:

Yeah but i made my staff use there left hand when they were clearly right handed . When that didn’t work I put the laptop in the bathroom and spent six million on a type writer. When my boss asked in January where the rest of the report was I said I couldn’t afford paper to print the reports out because I had spent the budget on an overpriced typewriter that didnt work.... then I got fired . I said I wasn’t ready to leave yet but apparently my boss didn’t give a shit and now I’m on the dole. After reading posts on hear I was sure my boss would be more understanding 

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I hope he doesn't be checking for grammar and spellings! 

[MarkBRFC]

  On 10/02/2020 at 14:27, MCMC1875 said:

I don't care whether they are good honest people, come across exceptionally well or have the club at heart. Waggott, Mowbray and all other managers under Venkys have been bang average or worse. We have been in the play off places for one hour.

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When was this magical hour that I see mentioned every now and then?!

Looking back, I can only find us in the top 6 of this league twice since relegation in 2012.

22/08/12 - 06/10/12 Just after relegation, we bounced around in the play off positions for around 6 weeks or so, even spending a week at the top of the table.

22/11/14 - 06/12/14 Two weeks spent in 6th place after a 10 game unbeaten run, we then lost 2-1 to Sheff Wed at Ewood and never got anywhere near again.

[Stuart]

  On 11/02/2020 at 13:19, Bigdoggsteel said:

"crosses the line" 

Stuart, you are far too sensitive. I hope you aren't the same in real life! 

I don't care if someone says that, I just point out that it doesn't make an opinion any less valid. So not sure what you're shiteing on about!  Oh sorry, I didn't mean to say the mean word. 

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Bloody hell mate. You’ve really taken this to heart to spend three days thinking of a reply.

[Inglorious basturk]

  On 11/02/2020 at 08:21, 47er said:

Be easier to list whose NOT on it!

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Early feb parents evening ? Ignore people who catch out daft lies 

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 11/02/2020 at 14:47, Stuart said:

Bloody hell mate. You’ve really taken this to heart to spend three days thinking of a reply.

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Ya, I was so upset, I couldn't bring myself to log on. 

[LDRover]

  On 11/02/2020 at 15:00, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, I was so upset, I couldn't bring myself to log on. 

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You know how I feel now after your earlier response. I'm off to the wellbeing police.

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 11/02/2020 at 16:37, LDRover said:

You know how I feel now after your earlier response. I'm off to the wellbeing police.

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? 

It's a jungle here man