Lewis Holtby

[Inglorious basturk]

... what mercer said about us being mentally and physically unfit just to clarify 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

Well aren’t you confrontational You cheeky big dog . I changed illnesses with injuries purely to support the work place metaphor . I’m not solely talking about the 3 you mentioned , I was really commenting on what someone else had said about how we always seem to have had a lot of injuries, ive always felt we seem like a club where there is an easy skive 

Woof woof

So who are you talking about then? Being happy is no buffer to getting injured 

[Inglorious basturk]

You can’t avoid say a cruncher like what dack had but I think of maybe chapman you get the feeling he’s not in the mood for it and he can use a niggle as an excuse , if he was playing all games and on fire that niggle might not cross his mind .  Just a thought that’s all 

[Leonard Venkhater]

23 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I’m not sure if it’s been looked at scientifically , however in all walks of life if everything is rosy at work minor illnesses etc tend not to be an issue and this clearly applies in football . 

Does that mean they should have sent Dack and Evans to a psychiatrist instead of a surgeon lol?

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

You can’t avoid say a cruncher like what dack had but I think of maybe chapman you get the feeling he’s not in the mood for it and he can use a niggle as an excuse , if he was playing all games and on fire that niggle might not cross his mind .  Just a thought that’s all 

Well I think Chapman is a separate issue. He has been injury prone throughout his short career. There seems to be more going on now alright, but we don't know the full story. I haven't heard a mention of any "niggle" this time. 

[Inglorious basturk]

5 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Does that mean they should have sent Dack and Evans to a psychiatrist instead of a surgeon lol?

Please see where I have elaborated , I’m not talking about those specific cases 

[Inglorious basturk]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well I think Chapman is a separate issue. He has been injury prone throughout his short career. There seems to be more going on now alright, but we don't know the full story. I haven't heard a mention of any "niggle" this time. 

Something recent mentioned about him being in a light cast / support ?

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

Please see where I have elaborated , I’m not talking about those specific cases 

Oh, I know. It was a joke( which I couldn't resist) about the whole conversation, rather than a dig at you.

I guess there is a serious point though. So many of us are so pissed off with recent events, I guess we have slipped into the blame frame, where everything is Tony's fault.

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Leonard Venkhater

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

Something recent mentioned about him being in a light cast / support ?

Sharpe tweeted that he had heard nothing about an injury the other day, so not sure. 

[Inglorious basturk]

7 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Oh, I know. It was a joke( which I couldn't resist) about the whole conversation, rather than a dig at you.

I guess there is a serious point though. So many of us are so pissed off with recent events, I guess we have slipped into the blame frame, where everything is Tony's fault.

 

Yes this is true , he just doesn’t help himself sometimes though . 

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, Mercer said:

Look at our Academy and all the £millions invested over the years.  Didn't Rovers say the cost was in the region of £3million+ per year.  My challenge would be is it really working?  

Look at Liverpool last night, in a FA Cup match against Liverpool, they fielded a team of youngsters with an average age of 19 and won and look at the team that defeated Everton in the previous round.  I could not see Rovers fielding a team in such circumstances from the 'ranks' and winning.

Mowbray talks about our 'kids' and Lenihan is going on 26 and Nyambe and Travis are 22 - these are not 'kids'.  'Kids' are what Liverpool fielded last night.

When did our Academy last produce a real talent sought by PL clubs or European clubs?

As a very, very bare minimum, as a Championship club, I would expect Rovers to 'produce' the likes of Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis.  As as PL club, IMO, that would be a shocking return given the resource going into the Academy.

You say we have "good youth players coming through and IMO some players who could become 1st team players in the future".  IMO, the likes of Grayson (age 20), Magloire (age 21) and Mols (age 21) are not good enough and never will be.  As for Buckley (age 20), Butterworth (age 20) and Rankin-Costello (age 20), a couple of them might  become a Championship player but they are not, IMO, hammering down the doors to our first team nor set to become the 'next big thing' in the way Damien Duff, David Dunn and Phil Jones were - all playing regular first team football (and in the PL) as 17/18/19 year old lads.

So if you measure our Academy objectively, IMO, it isn't working as it should.

As for our Sports Science department again, I look at 'results' and the evidence I see in matches.  I think we are one of the least mentally and physically fit teams in the league and as a result, the incidence of injury is higher.  IMO, there are examples of players being injured and then sent back on the field, possibly worsening their injuries (posters above have given examples including Lenihan and Chapman).  What sort of medical judgement calls are those?

We seem to pick up lots of injuries and take an age to get players back.  Younger players (as opposed to those 30+) shouldn't be injured as often as they are or take months to get into a state where Mowbray thinks they are fit enough for first team contention; Lenihan, Nyambe, Evans (excluding his facial injury), Holtby, Chapman and Davenport all readily spring to mind.

Sit back Chaddy, think about it and try to measure things more objectively.  Sadly, too many fans seem happy with mediocrity, are blinded by smoke and mirrors and think all things are rosy in the Ewood garden.  

 

 

Yes Rovers academy does take roughly 3 millions per year to run. We get about 1.1 million in grants in for the academy so it cost 2 millions to run from the club point of view. 

Leicester paid 1.1 million pounds for Rovers academy player Callum Wright 2 years ago and so far to my knowledge hasn't made into the first team. 

You compare us to Liverpool and we are in the same under 23's league and we are 7th in the league whilst they are ONLY 6th in the league despite Liverpool spending alot more money on their academy than us I would imagine. We are also in the same under 18's league as Liverpool just for the record. And No I didn't see the Liverpool FA cup game due to working last night. 

How many PL clubs are actually producing their talent and bring them through? not very many. 

Rankin Costello and Buckley will be good players for us going forward IMO. When I mention Talent coming through I meant players like Isaac Whitehall, Sam Barnes, Lewis Thompson, Luke Brennan. Plus Joe Hilton, the keeper we pick up in the summer look a great prospect and somewhere I think could be 1st team keeper here. 

Think you will find most sports players are never 100% fit. I think Jimmy Anderson(could be wrong) said this some time ago. Think 

How could the Sports Science department prevent the latest Dack or Evans injuries? I would like an answer to this please. 

Sadly you very happy to knock everything Blackburn Rovers do. I wont. As a fan who try to get to many academy and under 23 games as I can over the past seasons I can see improve year on year from players like Travis, Fisher, Hilton(only this season), Buckley, Butterworth. Sadly the 6 months I haven't been to has many as I would have like. Hopefully one day we can meet up at academy game and discuss our views. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[Bigdoggsteel]

At £2 million a year, the academy is an absolute must. No debate or discussion necessary! 

[Mattyblue]

Yes we are Cat 1, but that doesn’t mean we can attract the raw talent. We share a region with 4 big (very big) clubs from the cities of Manchester and Liverpool, as well as all the other clubs in this area. Old Lancashire is THE hotbed of the game.

Ergo, a lot of our top talent, I.e. the likes of Travis and JRC are brought in when they are discarded by said clubs, no shame in that as they can be polished. But our reality of a Cat 1 will never the same as a Liverpool or Man City. They attract world and cream of the local talent. We just don’t and won’t ever.

However, to have Raya (until this season), Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis as core players, to now have JRC emerging and others knocking on the door tells me we ain’t doing half bad - and in an FFP world it’s a must.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes Rovers academy does take roughly 3 millions per year to run. We get about 1.1 million in grants in for the academy so it cost 2 millions to run from the club point of view. 

Leicester paid 1.1 million pounds for Rovers academy player Callum Wright 2 years ago and so far to my knowledge hasn't made into the first team. 

You compare us to Liverpool and we are in the same under 23's league and we are 7th in the league whilst they are ONLY 6th in the league despite Liverpool spending alot more money on their academy than us I would imagine. We are also in the same under 18's league as Liverpool just for the record. And No I didn't see the Liverpool FA cup game due to working last night.  It's not about where you sit in the Academy Leagues it's the quality and number of players you bring through.

How many PL clubs are actually producing their talent and bring them through? not very many. Well take the top four at the moment (Liverpool, City, Leicester and Chelsea) and I'll give you Alexander-Arnold, Foden, Chillwell, Abraham, Loftus-Cheek and Mount all off the top of my head.  I could go on...........

Rankin Costello and Buckley will be good players for us going forward IMO. When I mention Talent coming through I meant players like Isaac Whitehall, Sam Barnes, Lewis Thompson, Luke Brennan. Plus Joe Hilton, the keeper we pick up in the summer look a great prospect and somewhere I think could be 1st team keeper here.  We will see.  Rankin-Costello and Buckley are both 20 and if they were stars of the future, they'd be holding down 1st team places NOW like Duff, Dunn and Jones were when they broke through at younger ages to RC and Buckley.  Seen nothing to suggest that RC and Buckley will be anything other than average Championship players.  As for the rest you mention, we will see - doesn't matter how young you are, if you are good enough...................

Think you will find most sports players are never 100% fit. I think Jimmy Anderson(could be wrong) said this some time ago. Think 

How could the Sports Science department prevent the latest Dack or Evans injuries? I would like an answer to this please.  Didn't say they could but their current injuries are not part of my criticism if you read more carefully!

Sadly you very happy to knock everything Blackburn Rovers do. I wont. as a fan who try to get to many academy and under 23 games as I can over the past seasons. Sadly the 6 months I haven't has many as I would have like.  Sadly, IMO, Rovers do little right these days.  As a club, I think we are a shambles.  I wish I looked forward to the matches like I once did when I had a number of season tickets for family and other and went to many matches both home and away.  These days, I am lucky if I get out of single figures for the games I attend even turning down a number of freebies.  Sadly, as the huge fall in gates shows, thousands of others feel the same way. 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Mercer

[Beanie01289]

15 minutes ago, Mercer said:

 

How much do you think we would get for Travis lenihan and nyambe now I'd suggest enough to fund the academy for a fair few years. Rayas sale was around enough to fund it for two years. And despite your negativity where would our current squad be without the guys who have come through the academy over the past few years.

[chaddyrovers]

18 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Well take the top four at the moment (Liverpool, City, Leicester and Chelsea) and I'll give you Alexander-Arnold, Foden, Chillwell, Abraham, Loftus-Cheek and Mount all off the top of my head.  I could go on...........

Don't even why you compare us to top 4 PL clubs considering their budgets. Where are Burnley or Preston youth propsects coming through?.

18 minutes ago, Mercer said:

We will see.  Rankin-Costello and Buckley are both 20 and if they were stars of the future, they'd be holding down 1st team places NOW like Duff, Dunn and Jones were when they broke through at younger ages to RC and Buckley.  Seen nothing to suggest that RC and Buckley will be anything other than average Championship players.  As for the rest you mention, we will see - doesn't matter how young you are, if you are good enough........

Don't know why you are comparing our young players to Duff or Dunn tbh. Just seems like point scoring on your behalf and a reason for you to moan about the club 

19 minutes ago, Mercer said:

These days, I am lucky if I get out of single figures for the games I attend even turning down a number of freebies.  

Still havent miss a home league game despite me breaking my foot. Still plenty of us who still passion and belief in the club. Still attend some away games. My stepdaughter enjoys going Rovers now. 

[Ewood Ace]

48 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Where are Burnley or Preston youth propsects coming through?.

McNeil is younger than Buckley, Rankin-Costello, Butterworth, Magloire and Grayson but he has already played more the double the amount of games of those 5 'prospects' combined.

[Pedro]

44 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

McNeil is younger than Buckley, Rankin-Costello, Butterworth, Magloire and Grayson but he has already played more the double the amount of games of those 5 'prospects' combined.

No getting up to speed for that lad.

 

Wayne Rooney and James Milner could've earnt testimonials by the time players aren't given the excuse of being young and learning the basics of the game (like Gallagher).

[USABlue]

Holtby status?  Or am I in the wrong thread?

[47er]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Sadly you very happy to knock everything Blackburn Rovers do. I wont. as a fan

That's poor stuff Chaddy. Trump stuff.

Are you saying Mercer isn't a Rovers supporter unless he thinks like you?

Of course he is, we all are. No point being on here otherwise.

[chaddyrovers]

41 minutes ago, 47er said:

That's poor stuff Chaddy. Trump stuff.

Are you saying Mercer isn't a Rovers supporter unless he thinks like you?

Of course he is, we all are. No point being on here otherwise.

You are trying to make big issue out of nothing. 

Me and Mercer are having fair discuss about our different views on Rovers related issues. We respect each other. 

Did I ever say he wasn't Rovers fan. Of course I didn't but you have chosen to misinterpret my post.

 

[Beanie01289]

I just feel its bending the arguement to rule out some players like Nyambe and Travis for being 22 while including 23 year old chilwell and 24 year old loftus-cheek as examples for other clubs.

[Inglorious basturk]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

That's poor stuff Chaddy. Trump stuff.

Are you saying Mercer isn't a Rovers supporter unless he thinks like you?

Of course he is, we all are. No point being on here otherwise.

Sometimes it seems like Blindly  defending the club to the end is seen as making you a super fan . However actually being objective and criticising something you love takes a lot more heart. 
we can be critical about rovers , doesn’t mean we care less . 
 

jist a game innit 

[Tugay's Right Foot]

Blimey, where's Holtby in all these U-23 talk?

[Swanson]

http://sportwitness.co.uk/i-feel-really-good-lewis-holtby-speaks-german-media-blackburn-rovers/