Rovers v Hull

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

There you have it, in a nutshell. Its a bit like the other poster who reckons Hull had a few chances and counts it as a negative against us but doesn't count the markedly better chances Rovers didn't take as a positive. The Raya/Walton discussion is exhibiting similar traits. The rules of engagement in these arguments get grotesquely twisted constantly. Some people can't see the wood for the trees.

Precisely. Well put. I struggled to sum up that type of carry on, but you have done it here. 

[Fraserkirky]

4 minutes ago, EgyptianPete said:

So how did Brereton do when he came on,  sounds like he made an impact according to mowbray and others,  i missed the game by being in Newcastle on business.

 

The game changed when he came on, we looked much more dangerous in their half. He was busy, working hard, closing down the defenders much quicker than Graham, he held the ball up well, he is fast like Gallagher over longer distances which allowed him to pressure the Keeper for Samuels goal. Good effort with a header, snatched a strike into the side netting after a good run. Totally taken out by the keeper, clear pen.

Best performance I've seen from him and something to build on. He should be coming off the bench more often in the remaining fixtures. Needs a goal asap. 

[Bbrovers2288]

1 hour ago, gumboots said:

I wasnt happy at 70 mins but I was delighted at 94. You can only beat what's in front of you and, despite not playing great football, we did it handsomely in terms of the score by the end. Football matches last around 95- 96 minutes most weeks and at the end, good performance or not, if you win, you celebrate. Yes, Rovers still need to do much better. They looked slow for most of the first half and passes were going astray. Theres always stuff to work on. And yes, I'd like better players to have come in to lift us a bit in January. But we didn't so we do what Souness told us we'd have to do. And last night they got 3 points. That's the bit that counts in the end.

I agree with you, that’s the most sensible post I have seen 

[Guest]

Feel bad for Walton, consistently a very decent goalkeeper, we've now rocked up 10 clean sheets for the season, and still he seems to get a load of stick. Sure, he's made *some* mistakes, but nowhere near the same amount of mistakes that David Raya used to make for us...

Walton is criminally underrated, and if we could manage it for under £2/3m, I'd be delighted if he came on board full time in the Summer. A good keeper who's only going to improve with age.

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Feel bad for Walton, consistently a very decent goalkeeper, we've now rocked up 10 clean sheets for the season, and still he seems to get a load of stick. Sure, he's made *some* mistakes, but nowhere near the same amount of mistakes that David Raya used to make for us...

Walton is criminally underrated, and if we could manage it for under £2/3m, I'd be delighted if he came on board full time in the Summer. A good keeper who's only going to improve with age.

Indeed. 

[Sparks Rover]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's a given, but not all players do it 

Yes but it's only said about Bennet because theres not much else to say. Jason Lowe was similar

[roversfan99]

17 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Feel bad for Walton, consistently a very decent goalkeeper, we've now rocked up 10 clean sheets for the season, and still he seems to get a load of stick. Sure, he's made *some* mistakes, but nowhere near the same amount of mistakes that David Raya used to make for us...

Walton is criminally underrated, and if we could manage it for under £2/3m, I'd be delighted if he came on board full time in the Summer. A good keeper who's only going to improve with age.

I am not sure about that. The league to be fair is littered with poor keepers and he certainly isnt one of the very worst (Sluga and Camp possibly the main 2) plus he isnt the worst player in our team hence my insistence that goalkeeper wasnt a priority in January but there have been plenty of goals in which he carries the main portion of the blame. The last 2 goals that we have conceded have both been his fault, palming the ball straight out v Boro and Mitrovics shot was saveable too.

Hes a totally different style to Raya, far more conservative. Rayas errors were usually blatant and obvious ones, whereas Walton does let in saveable shots more. He also pulls off less brilliant reflex saves although v Gestede it was a great save. Distribution, Raya kicked it out of play quite a lot, Walton doesnt but his kicking is often inaccurate in terms of things like floating towards a Dack or Armstrong when Gallagher or Graham are playing and Rayas distribution was sometimes an asset on the counter attack whereas Walton is poor and reluctant doing that which I think Mowbray recently touched on.

I think the main bug bear has always been about selling a keeper and loaning one who is the same age to be fair though. I would want a permanent upgrade in the summer to Walton.

[Blue blood]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I am not sure about that. The league to be fair is littered with poor keepers and he certainly isnt one of the very worst (Sluga and Camp possibly the main 2) plus he isnt the worst player in our team hence my insistence that goalkeeper wasnt a priority in January but there have been plenty of goals in which he carries the main portion of the blame. The last 2 goals that we have conceded have both been his fault, palming the ball straight out v Boro and Mitrovics shot was saveable too.

Hes a totally different style to Raya, far more conservative. Rayas errors were usually blatant and obvious ones, whereas Walton does let in saveable shots more. He also pulls off less brilliant reflex saves although v Gestede it was a great save. Distribution, Raya kicked it out of play quite a lot, Walton doesnt but his kicking is often inaccurate in terms of things like floating towards a Dack or Armstrong when Gallagher or Graham are playing and Rayas distribution was sometimes an asset on the counter attack whereas Walton is poor and reluctant doing that which I think Mowbray recently touched on.

I think the main bug bear has always been about selling a keeper and loaning one who is the same age to be fair though. I would want a permanent upgrade in the summer to Walton.

Best summary I have seen on the keeper situation. 

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

He didnt do much but to say he didnt look interested is just going out of your way to try and justify the non signing. Lets not pretend that he wouldnt be an improvement on Bennett or a striker in a wide role. Not even necessarily saying that we should sign specifically him in the summer.

 The guy didn't look interested. Did nothing of note. Stop making excuses for him

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

There are a lot of assumptions about Maddisons personality which seem to have snowballed from very little. His former big mouthed chairman was very stubborn about his price for a while and 2.5m is quite a lot for a League 1 player, think thats the reason why he didnt move. Lots of wild speculation but aside from aforementioned attention seeking chairman suggesting that part of his move choice was financial (as if thats a unique and dreadful thing!) I have not seen anything else to suggest he has such a disruptive personality. All wild fabricated speculation unless i have missed something?

Im glad he didnt do anything yesterday and dont think hes going to be the second coming or replace a player like Bowen but he would have almost certainly improved us in a weak area. Theres no need to go out of your way to try and exaggerate and speculate to defend our lack of signings by making him into this lay about with a terrible character constantly causing disruption!

You enjoyed saying Mowbray needs to stop making excuses but very willing to defence Maddison. 

You are very willing to call the Peterborough Chairman a big mouth for being open and honest with fans. Surely this what fans want? 

2.5 million pounds a lot of money? give over pal, 

Do you have everything that can dispute the Chairman's comments about his attitude or wage demands?

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

What word? What specific thing did their chairman say that indicated that he had a really bad attitude? He might well do, but it just seems to be unsubstantiated myth that has escalated from very little. The only thing was an insinuation that his choice of Hull over Charlton was partly down to money as well as location. Is that a particularly bad thing? Do you think most footballers or indeed people in general are not influenced by money? If I had the choice of 2 lower Championship sides that I had no affiliation to, money would be a big deciding factor in my choice too. Doesn't affect the effort that I would go on to put in.

I dont think that Maddison was necessarily a specific individual that had to be signed, we just needed general reinforcements especially capable of playing in wide areas. But his track record albeit at a lower League is very, very impressive.

He has struggled to get a move away from Peterborough because he had a clause of 2.5m in his contract and their chairman refused to budge, and that is quite a lot of money for a League 1 player especially considering that the best teams in the League possibly would look elsewhere rather than into League 1.

There seems to be a lot of revisionism and desperation to justify not signing anyone, not even specifically him. Not only are you not assuming that he can make the step up (undoubtedly a big unknown at this point, I have never said otherwise) but now he also wouldnt be willing to put effort in either, and could be even less effective (I am not sure that its possible) than the likes of Bennett and Gallagher out wide, especially the latter who is being shunted there even though he is a striker, when neither offer any attacking threat at all, pretty important as a wide man.

If their chairman has specifically said that he had a bad attitude then please feel free to show me the tweets, or alternatively wherever else you have seen that he has attitude problems, and it isnt just an assumption. He was publically delighted when he ended up staying in the summer, saying how good he was, so you have to appreciate that he always has a PR spin in mind anyway, but I am still in the dark as to why he has this reputation as this disinterested, unmotivated coaster that we did well to avoid.

 

You say his stats are very impressive but only took 3 years to get a loan to championship club? why? I did his attitude and wage demands is the problem ages ago which the Chairman's comments back up last week. 

[Tom]

Graham couldn’t have walked off slower if he tried last night; he took the shortest route but looked utterly fed up, not sure if he felt he wasted his chance or just felt time catching up with him 

Anyone notice in the first half someone shouted at Walton to get rid of it faster, he motioned to calm down and there was a shout back at him of ‘Dick’ from someone in the Blackburn end, find that sort of stuff unhelpful!

Edited February 12, 2020 by Tom

[JacknOry]

Chadddy, the Hull boards said he was one of only two of their players worthy of any credit. He tried to make things happen. You cannot just say 'he didnt want to be there' 'or looked like he wasnt interested' like it is fact. 

[Hasta]

17 minutes ago, Tom said:

Graham couldn’t have walked off slower if he tried last night; he took the shortest route but looked utterly fed up, not sure if he felt he wasted his chance or just felt time catching up with him 

I thought he did well first half in winning the ball and looking to lay it off. The players around him didn't have Dack's nack of being able to work off him effectively  turning his knockdowns did create chances.

However in the second half it simply stopped working, as Mowbray alluded to in his interview, and it was right to change it like he did. Graham looked very fed up trudging off but he is still a valuable option we should use more often.

[Ewood Ace]

46 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 You are very willing to call the Peterborough Chairman a big mouth for being open and honest with fans. Surely this what fans want? 

2.5 million pounds a lot of money? give over pal, 

Do you have everything that can dispute the Chairman's comments about his attitude or wage demands?

I really wouldn't pay to much attention to the Peterborough chairman he seems to love publicity and he is certainly fond of his own voice.

As for Maddison's attitude I will say to you what I said to someone on here earlier. To go from being released from Newcastle's academy to playing in the National League to 5 years down the line be playing in the Championship takes plenty of hard work. In the National League system or even lower down than that in the Northern Premier or Northwest Counties, there are plenty of talented players who have like Maddison have been released from good academies but very few make it back up the league. To do that takes commitment, hard work and a good attitude.

 

53 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 You say his stats are very impressive but only took 3 years to get a loan to championship club? why? I did his attitude and wage demands is the problem ages ago which the Chairman's comments back up last week. 

Dack had some of the best stats in League 1 for 3 years but he only got a move to a fellow League 1 side but he has done alright in the Championship. Jamie Vardy was 25 and a half before he played his first game in the football league. There are plenty of reasons for players not getting moves earlier. I know nothing about Maddison but you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder about him for no apparent reason. Why not just give the lad credit for taking a knock back when he was younger and getting himself back up to playing in the second tier.

[Stuart]

17 hours ago, garnersfags said:

I thought we played well in the 1st half, and created 4 or 5 good chances, and much of this was down to Bennett's incredible work ethic and tenacity. 

Admittedly, when he was in positions to score or create chances, he was found wanting but he covered every blade in the 1st half. 

Graham also played his part in a strong opening 30 min., setting up 2 or 3 of the early chances. Poor finishing distracted and detracted from a solid 1st 45 from most of the team. Armstrong and Johnson's chances were poor finishes.

2nd half, Nyambe and Travis carried on the good work, despite allowing Hull to have a good 15 min of pressure. Johnson learned from Saturday, kept it simple, and retained the ball somewhat better.

Mowbray did well to make the substitutions early as Graham & Benno both tired. Hull really couldn't live with the attacking intent, pace and willingness of Brereton & Samuel, although put a football at either of their feet and they will trip over it, 9 times out of 10. Good sub options only, for me. 

Defence look increasingly solid, if not yet perfect. Walton has surprised me with his consistency, ball handling & excellent kicking. 

I'm frustrated by our lack of intent & ambition to push on from 8th position, you'll see what I mean over the next few games, but you never know in the most open Championship run-in I have ever witnessed.

I know it might be provocative trolling but to call it 'very poor, laboured and dull' and to say there was little to enjoy is somewhat negative and overly downbeat. 

Most fans cannot fail to enjoy a 3 nil win, regardless of understandable reservations.

I live for nights like this and hats off to the few of us that braved the cold, to be rewarded with that AA screamer, talk about joy and relief. 

Brilliant! 

I honestly thought Bennett was abysmal. Regularly gave the ball away, very wasteful - have to blame Mowbray though for playing him as an attacker.

However, the reason he is a Mowbray man is summed up in the contrast between his reaction to being subbed and Graham’s. The latter was clearly very unhappy to go off (or at the lack of chances he got) and stomped straight down the tunnel, while Bennett sprinted over to Lenihan with the armband and then sprinted off the pitch. Don't get me wrong he is the consummate professional and I’ve no doubt he is a good role model but this fixation with playing him in every position on the pitch, despite not being adequate, is almost a metaphor for our lack of ambition. Utility over expertise. Moving Bennett to the left shows Mowbray is certainly going out of his way to not play Chapman.

I just hope the penny has dropped regarding playing Brereton (or Gallagher) in the middle, not our wide.

[Bbrovers2288]

3 hours ago, had.e.nuff said:

Its seems normal on here if we win the opposition were rubbish if we loose we were rubbish never any credit to any side , thought last night we played ok it allways hard to play a side that does not want to attack no matter how experienced a side they put out, a wins a win  and move on to the next game.

Nah the opposition really were rubbish last night, if we beat Fulham I would’ve been impressed 

[Dreams of 1995]

 

19 hours ago, Stuart said:

Well well.

That was a much better experience!

In fairness, until that first goal it was pretty dull and looked like heading towards a similar end to Saturday (although Hull were poor) and then a bit of a scramble, a worldie and opportunist goal we are sitting pretty.

Decent subs today - although Graham looked furious - and after a slow start, Brereton showed that there is something in there that could be fashioned into a footballer. Made the third goal for Samuel out of nothing and looked so much more comfortable in the middle with a bit of freedom to drop in and wide. Small steps but finally steps in the right direction.

A great last 20 minutes on a bitterly cold night, with about 7,500 on (posted as 11,100-odd).

Just need the nobbers to slip up now.

A bit of pride back. COYB!

A bit of pride back? We've lost 1 in 5 man....

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 The guy didn't look interested. Did nothing of note. Stop making excuses for him

You enjoyed saying Mowbray needs to stop making excuses but very willing to defence Maddison. 

You are very willing to call the Peterborough Chairman a big mouth for being open and honest with fans. Surely this what fans want? 

2.5 million pounds a lot of money? give over pal, 

Do you have everything that can dispute the Chairman's comments about his attitude or wage demands?

You say his stats are very impressive but only took 3 years to get a loan to championship club? why? I did his attitude and wage demands is the problem ages ago which the Chairman's comments back up last week. 

 You've just randomly said that he wasnt interested just because he had a quiet game as if it is an indisputable fact. Bennett did nothing either, was he not trying and displaying a bad attitude? No. He just had an anonymous game.

I don't dispute his wage demands but that doesnt mean that he has a terrible character, everyone is somewhat motivated by money and theres nothing wrong with trying to get a better contract for yourself.

I havent seen any specific comments about his work rate or attitude though, if you have them to hand then please show them, else I will continue to be of the opinion that everything regarding his attitude being the reason that we didnt want him has snowballed from a baseless  bassumption and is now being used to defend our lack of transfer activity.

I wouldnt want a chairman like that no, just desperate for attention. 

2.5m was more than we had.

If you dont have anything further to add of value that is constructive that you havent already then I shan't be continuing the discussion, its infuriating with you never directly addressing the points at hand and indeed it cant be pleasant for other users to read these debates between the 2 of us! 

Edited February 12, 2020 by roversfan99

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

Feel bad for Walton, consistently a very decent goalkeeper, we've now rocked up 10 clean sheets for the season, and still he seems to get a load of stick. Sure, he's made *some* mistakes, but nowhere near the same amount of mistakes that David Raya used to make for us...

Walton is criminally underrated, and if we could manage it for under £2/3m, I'd be delighted if he came on board full time in the Summer. A good keeper who's only going to improve with age.

You've got to be looking at a million tops preferably less. Then he's worth a punt but at the end of the day he's Brighton's 4th choice and that's probably where he'd be if a late loan here hadn't cropped up because we were desperate.

He definitely looks to have settled now but we'd better not get carried away yet. Quite ironic though that one they didn't scout and wouldn't have normally signed, sent back even, turns out to be a good one.

What does that say about the recruitment dept ?

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, tomphil said:

You've got to be looking at a million tops preferably less. Then he's worth a punt but at the end of the day he's Brighton's 4th choice and that's probably where he'd be if a late loan here hadn't cropped up because we were desperate.

He definitely looks to have settled now but we'd better not get carried away yet. Quite ironic though that one they didn't scout and wouldn't have normally signed, sent back even, turns out to be a good one.

What does that say about the recruitment dept ?

It says they got lucky. That's about all it says really.

[Stuart]

10 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

 

A bit of pride back? We've lost 1 in 5 man....

And I was proud of us last night.

Folk like you are part of the problem.

[Dreams of 1995]

2 minutes ago, Stuart said:

And I was proud of us last night.

Folk like you are part of the problem.

??? 

What problem? I will hazard a guess that what you consider a problem 98% of people don't.

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[tomphil]

10 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

It says they got lucky. That's about all it says really.

Correct.

Whatelse would it be saying ?

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, tomphil said:

Correct.

Whatelse would it be saying ?

It was only 4 weeks ago Walton was a pariah on here....now he's an unrivalled success and living proof our recruitment department is terrible because they didn't spot him!

Our recruitment department also spotted Tosin, Holtby, Dack, Rothwell, Reed. We've had just as many successes in recruiting as we have had failure but that's a discussion for another time I'm afraid. I don't have it in me to go over that topic again, sorry.

[tomphil]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

It was only 4 weeks ago Walton was a pariah on here....now he's an unrivalled success and living proof our recruitment department is terrible because they didn't spot him!

Our recruitment department also spotted Tosin, Holtby, Dack, Rothwell, Reed. We've had just as many successes in recruiting as we have had failure but that's a discussion for another time I'm afraid. I don't have it in me to go over that topic again, sorry.

No because you'll find yourself having to try and justify a load a shite as well.

Overall they've been bang in the middle I'd say. But it's fair to point out Mowbrays comments on the Walton signing. If he himself didn't cast so much doubt on some of his dealings when he's in full waffle mode he might get an easier ride.

[Stuart]

16 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

??? 

What problem? I will hazard a guess that what you consider a problem 98% of people don't.

 

Having a pop at fans when they are being positive, just to try to score points.

You started off quite a good poster at one point. Now you’ve become ‘that guy’.