Charlton

[47er]

20 minutes ago, Beanie01289 said:

Mowbray has been a positive force in the club and has so far taken us forward every year so far.

 

Ignoring his first half season when we went down, that's true.

3 years is more than most managers get though.

For me its the pace of achievement and the ghastly and avoidable mistakes that have detracted from the general picture you want to present.

Bit of an enigma our Tony. 

[47er]

7 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Negative agendas’.

Like what?

Not agreeing with him!

[Stuart]

51 minutes ago, Beanie01289 said:

While you are entitled to that view my thoughts on the club is that Mowbray has been a positive force in the club and has so far taken us forward every year so far.

We all have a view on football management if it was as simple as we make out on here we would all be doing it.

Likewise you are entitled to your view.

The irony is that while you and others take pot shots, I hope and pray your confidence is proven to be well placed.

[Dreams of 1995]

Jesus. No one is taking pot shots. Stop being so over sensitive because every now and again you get it wrong. All people are saying is that on here it seems the man can do no right, so right now when he’s getting it right people are trying to highlight the fact. For example, we are plagued with injuries, still winning, and the likes of yourself are trying to peddle the line he’s winning BECAUSE of the injuries. It’s comical and, on occasion, can only be met with the derision it so deserves as discussion is simply a no go. 
 

Make no mistake that all this whinging about others is coming from the same guy that has brought up Chaddys support of Bowyer several times when in discussion with him, as if to discredit his opinion. 
 

When the shoes fits and all that ?

Plenty of excellent discussion is still held on this board amongst some posters, I had a decent discussion only yesterday about Gallagher with Hasta n co. If you aren’t included in that discussion then perhaps you need to take a look at why, because it certainly isn’t the case across this entire board. 

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

There’s people coming on here hours after a 0-2 away win in the current circs demanding they manager be removed.

TBH it wasn’t the term I wanted to use for them. But ultimately if I choose not to interact with them because I believe they care about their own agenda more than the club then that’s my prerogative.

“People”.

One person.

”Demanding”.

A glib ‘Mowbray Out’’.

You really are dramatic.

[white boy]

11 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

On the assumption you're a nobber and not dirty Leeds, dream on pal ?

Well being a non dirty Leeds....dreaming has always been necessary

[47er]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

“People”.

One person.

”Demanding”.

A glib ‘Mowbray Out’’.

You really are dramatic.

I don't recall one post demanding "Mowbray Out" after that Charlton game!

Feeling that he is still not the man to take us further however is a completely different matter.

Its not treason to have doubts about the manager.

[47er]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Plenty of excellent discussion is still held on this board amongst some posters

And you would be the man to determine which is which I assume?

[Beanie01289]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

Ignoring his first half season when we went down, that's true.

3 years is more than most managers get though.

For me its the pace of achievement and the ghastly and avoidable mistakes that have detracted from the general picture you want to present.

Bit of an enigma our Tony. 

I can give him a pass for his half a season so you say I'd say less than half a season since he took over the horrendously assembled Coyle squad towards the end of February that year.

For me hes taken us from league one to the brink of the playoffs in 3 seasons. I dont forget what a basket case we were when he took over.

[Beanie01289]

9 hours ago, Stuart said:

Likewise you are entitled to your view.

The irony is that while you and others take pot shots, I hope and pray your confidence is proven to be well placed.

I'm not taking pot shots at all I'm pointing out that if we win you say its despite mowbray and bizarrely because we have injuries but if we lose it's his fault so your arguments make it impossible to chew the fat as you say as in whatever situation you paint yourself as right.

[Stuart]

3 minutes ago, Beanie01289 said:

I'm not taking pot shots at all I'm pointing out that if we win you say its despite mowbray and bizarrely because we have injuries but if we lose it's his fault so your arguments make it impossible to chew the fat as you say as in whatever situation you paint yourself as right.

It’s a simple question. You seem unable to answer it..

But whatever, you think Mowbray is that right man to take us forward, I don’t. That could change but on the evidence so far, that’s my view.

Note, that isn’t the same as saying sack him now.

[Beanie01289]

35 minutes ago, Stuart said:

It’s a simple question. You seem unable to answer it..

But whatever, you think Mowbray is that right man to take us forward, I don’t. That could change but on the evidence so far, that’s my view.

Note, that isn’t the same as saying sack him now.

What was the question?

You won't let him change your mind I'm sorry if you come from a position of if we win its despite him and if we lose its because of him he's you can see why I'm sceptical of you viewing the evidence in any kind of balanced way.

In fact I'd argue your effectively twisting the evidence to suit your own argument.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Beanie01289

[Blue blood]

5 hours ago, Beanie01289 said:

I can give him a pass for his half a season so you say I'd say less than half a season since he took over the horrendously assembled Coyle squad towards the end of February that year.

For me hes taken us from league one to the brink of the playoffs in 3 seasons. I dont forget what a basket case we were when he took over.

We are still a basket case of a club and TM is part of said basket case and problem.  Its the agency he is with that's still calling the shots, it's still his mate who is CEO/director/whatever we call them these days. 

We're doing well on the pitch at the moment, credit to TM and the team for that and long may it continue, and that alleviates the problem somewhat. But we are still a broken club of which TM is part of the brokenness. 

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Beanie01289 said:

What was the question?

You won't let him change your mind I'm sorry if you come from a position of if we win its despite him and if we lose its because of him he's you can see why I'm sceptical of you viewing the evidence in any kind of balanced way.

In fact I'd argue your effectively twisting the evidence to suit your own argument.

So me having an opinion is ‘twisting’ and you having an opinion is ‘balanced’.

I’m glad we’ve got that straightened out.

Sadly, this has become the problem with forums. There has always been an element of ad hominem posts but now it seems to have become the norm rather than the exception.

[DE.]

18 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

We are still a basket case of a club and TM is part of said basket case and problem.  Its the agency he is with that's still calling the shots, it's still his mate who is CEO/director/whatever we call them these days. 

We're doing well on the pitch at the moment, credit to TM and the team for that and long may it continue, and that alleviates the problem somewhat. But we are still a broken club of which TM is part of the brokenness. 

Completely agree. Bowyer had us on the brink of the playoffs as well but we were still a basket case despite the cries of 'stability', which was proven when Bowyer left and everything collapsed. Fool me once...

[Beanie01289]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

So me having an opinion is ‘twisting’ and you having an opinion is ‘balanced’.

I’m glad we’ve got that straightened out.

Sadly, this has become the problem with forums. There has always been an element of ad hominem posts but now it seems to have become the norm rather than the exception.

Ah but where as I'll acknowledge that in some games he has been at fault for some selection problems or playing players out of the positions we see them as being you give him no credit for finding ways to win with all these players being out in fact the twisting comes when you basically say we are winning because the of the injuries not despite them. Your argument flys innthe face of the conventional football wisdom that having a large number of your best players out = bad

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, Beanie01289 said:

Ah but where as I'll acknowledge that in some games he has been at fault for some selection problems or playing players out of the positions we see them as being you give him no credit for finding ways to win with all these players being out in fact the twisting comes when you basically say we are winning because the of the injuries not despite them. Your argument flys innthe face of the conventional football wisdom that having a large number of your best players out = bad

I’ve given him credit on several occasions. Just a shame he isn’t more consistent because then I would be.

Conventional wisdom doesn’t always work though. To generate momentum in this division takes a close-knit group of players gelling by playing week in week out together. Mowbray’s approach is to do the opposite: to change the team on a regular basis which has lead to inconsistency. That isn’t my opinion, that’s what has happened.

Conversely, in League One, our best players were for the most part the best players in the division. So he kept the squad fresh. We don’t have the best players in the Championship so we cannot keep tinkering.

[Beanie01289]

13 hours ago, Stuart said:

I’ve given him credit on several occasions. Just a shame he isn’t more consistent because then I would be.

Conventional wisdom doesn’t always work though. To generate momentum in this division takes a close-knit group of players gelling by playing week in week out together. Mowbray’s approach is to do the opposite: to change the team on a regular basis which has lead to inconsistency. That isn’t my opinion, that’s what has happened.

Conversely, in League One, our best players were for the most part the best players in the division. So he kept the squad fresh. We don’t have the best players in the Championship so we cannot keep tinkering.

So the best approach for the championship is to lose your best player your left back for the season  and anyone who can play the same role as your best player your approach is certainly novel 

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 hours ago, Stuart said:

I’ve given him credit on several occasions. Just a shame he isn’t more consistent because then I would be.

Conventional wisdom doesn’t always work though. To generate momentum in this division takes a close-knit group of players gelling by playing week in week out together. Mowbray’s approach is to do the opposite: to change the team on a regular basis which has lead to inconsistency. That isn’t my opinion, that’s what has happened.

Conversely, in League One, our best players were for the most part the best players in the division. So he kept the squad fresh. We don’t have the best players in the Championship so we cannot keep tinkering.

No, it's your opinion. Plenty of teams have won promotion rotating players, in fact it's practically impossible not to do so.  My opinion would be that we have a very close-knit group of players who will go that extra mile for each other, Mowbray is responsible for this. Many players have alluded to it. 

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

No, it's your opinion. Plenty of teams have won promotion rotating players, in fact it's practically impossible not to do so.  My opinion would be that we have a very close-knit group of players who will go that extra mile for each other, Mowbray is responsible for this. Many players have alluded to it. 

Ones with far better squads than ours can do it that way.

We have been most successful and consistent when we have ditched the rotation policy in favour of a stable side.

[Leonard Venkhater]

14 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Ones with far better squads than ours can do it that way.

We have been most successful and consistent when we have ditched the rotation policy in favour of a stable side.

I think you nailed it there. Rotation works with better squads than ours.

A stable, consistent team-even when that stability is enforced through injuries-seems to be working here.

[JacknOry]

Beisla's Leeds dont rotate - but with their recent run, not sure that is a good argument for not doing it or not. 

[Ossydave]

Not sure Leeds have the players to rotate either, their biggest issue is they don't seem to have a plan B. 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Ossydave said:

Not sure Leeds have the players to rotate either, their biggest issue is they don't seem to have a plan B. 

Deffo no plan B. Plus at their bench is mostly kids from Academy 

[arbitro]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Deffo no plan B. Plus at their bench is mostly kids from Academy 

Leeds are three points clear in second place with a superior goal difference to Fulham despite their indifferent recent form.