Darragh Lenihan Impending Suspension - Poll

[Bigdoggsteel]

28 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Yeah but the quality of them are Williams and Mulgrew so not hard to be 3rd choice. 

Add in the fact of suspensions (hence this thread) injuries (Nayambe and Lenihen have picked up a number and that Tosin and Williams act as cover for the full back positions and there is a fair old chance that a 3rd choice centre back would get a decent amount of game time. 

Also they don't have to be an exceptional centre back just better than Williams and Mulgrew. Am sure there are a number of players who teams want of their wage bill, have fallen out with the manager, need games for fitness etc. So yeah, I think there may well have been some decent options out there. Was thinking another Downing-esque signing (the centre back) in an ideal world, not a world beater but competent at this level. Regardless of said wishful thinking I think there are enough factors regarding game time and level needed to have attracted someone. 

 

They still wouldn't have played a game since January 

[benhben]

I reckon Mowbray will go for the following ?:

Nyambe Gallagher Tosin Bell 

Edited February 18, 2020 by benhben

[joey_big_nose]

20 hours ago, rigger said:

I am against any team with Bell in it.

He's been good last six games.

As for what to do if Lenihan is out Williams seems the best choice. But I think it would see us majorly weakened. Same questions on why we haven't strengthened the defence will be asked.

Williams has had a few good games for us but is positionally and aerially suspect. I think Bell would get exposed and we will start conceding regularly again down the left. Mulgrew is even worse.

Anyone from the academy we can throw in?Or maybe back three? 

[Blue blood]

33 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

They still wouldn't have played a game since January 

True. Although that a) is only known with hindsight and b) is because so far we have been lucky with injuries and suspensions in defence (shame about elsewhere in the team though.) I think it more probable that they would have played a few more games and most likely would get a couple when Lenihen gets suspended. 

Also think players would prefer to be one away from game time then 2 or 3 players. And as it is regardless of how much they would have played we are all a tad worried that there isn't better back up there 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Blue blood said:

True. Although that a) is only known with hindsight and b) is because so far we have been lucky with injuries and suspensions in defence (shame about elsewhere in the team though.) I think it more probable that they would have played a few more games and most likely would get a couple when Lenihen gets suspended. 

Also think players would prefer to be one away from game time then 2 or 3 players. And as it is regardless of how much they would have played we are all a tad worried that there isn't better back up there 

 

Ok, so you are using hypothetical evidence above what actually happened? Why would a quality centre half have come here to sit on the bench as oppose to going and starting somewhere? The fact is he would not have played yet and may not in the foreseeable future.

 

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

Yeah but the quality of them are Williams and Mulgrew so not hard to be 3rd choice. 

Add in the fact of suspensions (hence this thread) injuries (Nayambe and Lenihen have picked up a number and that Tosin and Williams act as cover for the full back positions and there is a fair old chance that a 3rd choice centre back would get a decent amount of game time. 

Also they don't have to be an exceptional centre back just better than Williams and Mulgrew. Am sure there are a number of players who teams want of their wage bill, have fallen out with the manager, need games for fitness etc. So yeah, I think there may well have been some decent options out there. Was thinking another Downing-esque signing (the centre back) in an ideal world, not a world beater but competent at this level. Regardless of said wishful thinking I think there are enough factors regarding game time and level needed to have attracted someone. 

 

And with tosin going back and a shirt up for grabs would have made for good competition as well as being settled for the start of next season

[Blue blood]

21 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ok, so you are using hypothetical evidence above what actually happened? Why would a quality centre half have come here to sit on the bench as oppose to going and starting somewhere? The fact is he would not have played yet and may not in the foreseeable future.

 

Well in part yes because none of us had a crystal ball in January and could tell that! Unfair to judge on hindsight imo. The probability was we would need them before now (how often Nayambe and Lenihen been injured in the last couple of years) and it certainly looks like we'll need them now. 

If we were getting them from lower leagues for example they may have been willing to come as 3rd choice. Or if they had fallen out with the manager and wanted a fresh start. Or if they were 4th choice or worse elsewhere. Or as oldgregg points out they may take a longer view than the next 6 months. A load of reasons why they may chose to come to us as 3rd choice centre back. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Well in part yes because none of us had a crystal ball in January and could tell that! Unfair to judge on hindsight imo. The probability was we would need them before now (how often Nayambe and Lenihen been injured in the last couple of years) and it certainly looks like we'll need them now. 

If we were getting them from lower leagues for example they may have been willing to come as 3rd choice. Or if they had fallen out with the manager and wanted a fresh start. Or if they were 4th choice or worse elsewhere. Or as oldgregg points out they may take a longer view than the next 6 months. A load of reasons why they may chose to come to us as 3rd choice centre back. 

"The probabiity was we would need them before now", I would say "the reality" was that we didn't!  As for "the longer view", well there is another window during the summer. 

We could have signed someone from lower leagues maybe ya, if they are any good though they would cost more than 1.3 million. If they are 4th choice or worse elsewhere, why would we want them as 3rd choice? 

It's a pity we didn't sign 1-2, but lets not pretend that it's simple to just sign a quality 3rd choice center half, who would be happy to sit on the bench for months. Loans even cost money now. I have little doubt if we paid a fee for a loan, along with wages and he still hadn't played, some on here would be saying it was money wasted. 

 

[rigger]

2 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

He's been good last six games.

As for what to do if Lenihan is out Williams seems the best choice. But I think it would see us majorly weakened. Same questions on why we haven't strengthened the defence will be asked.

Williams has had a few good games for us but is positionally and aerially suspect. I think Bell would get exposed and we will start conceding regularly again down the left. Mulgrew is even worse.

Anyone from the academy we can throw in?Or maybe back three? 

For me Bell has been mediocre at best. He may look to be improving but that is because he was so bad before.

[MarkBRFC]

Is it possible Carter gets a game when Lenihan gets suspended, seeing as he was on the bench at Charlton?

Anyone who watches the u23's that can tell us what kind of player he is?

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

"The probabiity was we would need them before now", I would say "the reality" was that we didn't!  As for "the longer view", well there is another window during the summer. 

We could have signed someone from lower leagues maybe ya, if they are any good though they would cost more than 1.3 million. If they are 4th choice or worse elsewhere, why would we want them as 3rd choice? 

It's a pity we didn't sign 1-2, but lets not pretend that it's simple to just sign a quality 3rd choice center half, who would be happy to sit on the bench for months. Loans even cost money now. I have little doubt if we paid a fee for a loan, along with wages and he still hadn't played, some on here would be saying it was money wasted. 

 

Given how everyone has complained how thin we are in defence then this is doubtful. We have been thin on the ground for defensive reinforcements for a year now so don't think anyone would complain about having cover there. 

Whilst not easy there are always players out of favour/looking to move on. The Downing situation at MK Dons is a good  example of this. Off the top of my head the Mulgrew situation (albeit he can't move to another club) and Sinclair from Celtic (read an article on him going from first choice to reserves) show that players' fortunes change and ready to move on. Whilst not super easy the idea that it is difficult to find a decent centre back is a bit of a fallacy. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

15 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Given how everyone has complained how thin we are in defence then this is doubtful. We have been thin on the ground for defensive reinforcements for a year now so don't think anyone would complain about having cover there. 

Whilst not easy there are always players out of favour/looking to move on. The Downing situation at MK Dons is a good  example of this. Off the top of my head the Mulgrew situation (albeit he can't move to another club) and Sinclair from Celtic (read an article on him going from first choice to reserves) show that players' fortunes change and ready to move on. Whilst not super easy the idea that it is difficult to find a decent centre back is a bit of a fallacy. 

So if Mulgrew is an example, why aren't you happy with him being 3rd choice here?

Downing was a good find, do you recall the reaction to that signing on here? 

It really comes down to whether we could sign someone better than Williams or Mulgrew, for 1.3 million, in January, who was happy to sit on the bench potentially all season. Promises that you will get your chance really aren't enough. 

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

At the very least it's an area we'll need to look at in the summer. Tosin likely won't be here next season unless we get promoted, whilst Lenihan is injury prone and our backups of Williams, Nyambe and Mulgrew aren't really up to standard at CB (and we also don't want to be pulling Nyambe away from RB which he has made his own). Williams will probably stay and I expect Mulgrew to go so we will at the very least require one new first team CB (assuming Tosin doesn't return) and a decent backup CB who can challenge for a first team spot and fill in comfortably when Lenihan is out injured or suspended. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by DE.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So if Mulgrew is an example, why aren't you happy with him being 3rd choice here?

Downing was a good find, do you recall the reaction to that signing on here? 

It really comes down to whether we could sign someone better than Williams or Mulgrew, for 1.3 million, in January, who was happy to sit on the bench potentially all season. Promises that you will get your chance really aren't enough. 

 

I always felt that cover in defence was down the list of priorities and that although he failed to bring them in, he was right to prioritise attacking players in the wide areas. A left back would also have been preferential.

The comments about Downing are correct, he has massively exceeded expectations but a full picture is needed. People were right to be sceptical, he is 35, barely played last season and when he did he contributed very little and Boro fans were seemingly happy to see him go. He has been very impressive. Similar with Adarabioyo, he did not pull up any trees but was out of position at right back and was displaced by another signing in Mason Holgate. He has been a very shrewd addition both defensively and with his passing. Conversely, I and many others were made up to sign Bradley Johnson, unfortunately in the main he has been hugely disappointment with only isolated examples of the player we thought we were signing. And to everyones surprise, I didnt want us to sign Gallagher but many were happy and indeed I did expect him to show much more competence than he has, albeit part of that has been down to the position he has been asked to play, which he cannot do as couldnt Adarabioyo at right back. I think we have had a bit of a mixed bag in terms of expectations, arguably the 2 that got the most positive reactions have been the 2 that have not met expectations, and the 2 that came with some trepidation have massively improved us.

[Blue blood]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So if Mulgrew is an example, why aren't you happy with him being 3rd choice here?

Mulgrew is an example of a player being surplus to requirements. No not mega happy with him but he was a case in point that there are players out there who would be ok being 3rd choice. Am sure there are many others who have fallen out of favour at clubs, and was just using Mulgrew as an example of this. 

Quote

Downing was a good find, do you recall the reaction to that signing on here? 

Mixed. But who cares? Its not about a popularity contest but getting what is best for the team. If it works fans will acknowledge it. 

Quote

It really comes down to whether we could sign someone better than Williams or Mulgrew, for 1.3 million, in January, who was happy to sit on the bench potentially all season. Promises that you will get your chance really aren't enough. 

 

Or a loan would have done too. Its about having cover. Given Williams cost £250k I'm fairly confident we could have found better and as others have said good quality competition for a place is no bad thing. Think Holtby for example not sure he was promised a first team place but gradually came in and did well for himself. 

I think we massively disagree on this. I've felt defensive reinforcements have been needed for ages and it looks like it could come back to haunt us. Let's say Lenihen misses 2 games where we get less points that could be huge in the race for top 6. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The comments about Downing are correct, he has massively exceeded expectations but a full picture is needed. People were right to be sceptical, he is 35, barely played last season and when he did he contributed very little and Boro fans were seemingly happy to see him go. 

Barely played? Make 38 appearances in league last season for Boro

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Similar with Adarabioyo, 

Did WBA really suit him? Probably not. In terms of style of play. Under Mowbray has does

[roversfan99]

54 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Barely played? Make 38 appearances in league last season for Boro

Did WBA really suit him? Probably not. In terms of style of play. Under Mowbray has does

In the second half of the season he rarely started due partly to a contractual issue and his stats in general last season were very poor and with his age and lack of goals or assists, with Boro fans seemingly happy to see him go, there was plenty of scope for scepticism when he came here. 

The main thing that didnt suit Adarabioyo wasnt because he wasnt under Mowbrays unique tika taka passing style, it was being played at right back. Ultimately his only prior first team experience and relevant at this level was not indicative of someone who could come in and make such a big difference. Again there was justified scepticism. And he has been like Downing a huge success.

On the flip side, Johnson had played regularly for the play off finalists and at 2 or 3 years younger to Downing seemed in prime shape to play a pivotal part in our season. As it happens, hes had 3 or 4 good games but overall his consistent level has been so low he was dropped for a couple of months. Obviously brought in to bring experience but his lack of passing ability isnt really in line with our new way of playing.

I wasnt overjoyed at signing Gallagher but there was at least enough on his last average spell to hope for double figures as a striker. I think he is the opposite of Adarabioyo, who is suited by Mowbrays attempts to pass it more, playing in his natural position next to a more physical partner, everything suits. Gallagher on the other hand seems an illogical signing for Mowbrays tactics, he is technically poor and often played out of position has led to some very poor performances.

My point was that there was valid reasoning behind the scepticism of Adarabioyo and Downing, and reason for optimism when we signed Johnson and to a lesser extent Gallagher, yet all 4 have either over or under exceeded the majority of expectations.

[bboy]

On 17/02/2020 at 14:50, Sparks Rover said:

It's simple, put either Bennet or Del anywhere near that back 4 and you can kiss your arse goodbye to play offs. Under no circumstances 

Very Harsh on Williams, early season Del looked very good as a CB, the issue was him and Lenihan are too similar. Tosin offers something different. I actually have no issue with a fit Williams there for a few games. If he was at LB we'd have issues though.

[roversfan99]

Just now, bboy said:

Very Harsh on Williams, early season Del looked very good as a CB, the issue was him and Lenihan are too similar. Tosin offers something different. I actually have no issue with a fit Williams there for a few games. If he was at LB we'd have issues though.

I think Williams can be adequate cover if alongside Lenihan but out of the 3, Lenihan I think is the only leading centre back. Adarabioyo and Williams didnt look particularly safe together (eg Preston away) and it was only upon Lenihans return that Adarabioyo started to flourish.

[Sparks Rover]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think Williams can be adequate cover if alongside Lenihan but out of the 3, Lenihan I think is the only leading centre back. Adarabioyo and Williams didnt look particularly safe together (eg Preston away) and it was only upon Lenihans return that Adarabioyo started to flourish.

Adequate isnt any good if we want a top six finish 

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Adequate isnt any good if we want a top six finish 

Ideally neither Lenihan or Adarabioyo will miss a minute of the remaining games as the drop in quality to Williams is very noticeable.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

In the second half of the season he rarely started due partly to a contractual issue and his stats in general last season were very poor and with his age and lack of goals or assists, with Boro fans seemingly happy to see him go, there was plenty of scope for scepticism when he came here. 

One of the problem when listening to fans opinions

Boro fault for not sorting out Downing contractual issue out. 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

he main thing that didnt suit Adarabioyo wasnt because he wasnt under Mowbrays unique tika taka passing style, it was being played at right back. Ultimately his only prior first team experience and relevant at this level was not indicative of someone who could come in and make such a big difference. Again there was justified scepticism.

Adarabioyo was played a right back but not convince that WBA playing style and the way he used in the team wasn't right for him and his development as a player

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I wasnt overjoyed at signing Gallagher but there was at least enough on his last average spell to hope for double figures as a striker.

How was his last spell average? 

 

[Guest]

On 18/02/2020 at 15:28, MarkBRFC said:

Is it possible Carter gets a game when Lenihan gets suspended, seeing as he was on the bench at Charlton?

Anyone who watches the u23's that can tell us what kind of player he is?

Carter more like Lenihan than Adarabioyo. No nonsense type. Similar kind of stature and physicality to Phil Jones actually.

Certainly dealt with Jayden Stockley better than the first team defenders did when we played Preston recently in the Lancs Senior Cup.

[tomphil]

Delboy takes it by UD

[Miker]

People being pretty harsh on Del. He was performing well at CB at the end of last season and the start of this one. He was never dropped because of his performances, but because of injury.

Although I think he played better with Cunningham on the left flank next to him. I always get the feeling that him and Bell don’t work that well on the left side of defence.