Stoke City home

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Ossydave said:

Really tough game this, I think some people are underestimating Stoke a bit.

Whilst we're considered to be in form, they've only collected 2 points less than us in the last 8 games. That includes wins against West Brom, Cardiff and Swansea too. I don't wish to sound negative but its similar to the Wigan/Brum games when people were talking about the Brum game as if we'd already turned Wigan over (like some are with Swansea now). I'd like to think we've learnt from but I think we're in for a nervy old night.

They arent going to roll over and it wont be really easy, but if you are 8th, genuinely wanting a top 6 finish, when you play 20th at home, you expect to win, end of.

Interestingly, Mowbray has been notoriously cautious pre match, but after the games against Hull at home and Charlton away, he said we should be winning them games which I found reassuring. If you genuinely want a top 6 finish, thats the correct attitude.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

No it wasn't a major disappointment tho. Its yourself painting this way. Most Rovers fans arent. We drew to a dobgy penalty. Whilst our penalty was a penalty as Quest pundit Nathan Jones said. Neutral opinion. 

We have taken 4 points against Brentford. A potential playoff rival. If you offer me a point before Brentford I would have deffo took it. 

 

59 minutes ago, CD_93 said:

I think it helped that it was on Sky. Everyone could see what happened and how it happened. We could see our lads putting a shift in but ultimately being unlucky against a good side at their place.

Just because one neutral opinion agrees with you doesnt make it a fact chaddy. My opinion was that ours was harsh and theres was not even a doubt about it being a dive but ultimately both were debatable to varying degrees.

The second penalty being dodgy surely only adds to the feeling of disapointment and feeling aggrieved. Whether we would have taken the point prior to kick off was irrelevant when we went 2 nil up in the second half, we certainly wouldnt have taken a point then.

I didnt understand the amount of pessimism on here in terms of the fear of playing a top 6 rival. If we want top 6, we should be relishing these games, we shouldnt have an inferiority complex and we shouldnt be content drawing games we go 2 up in, partly because we commonly throw away points and partly because we can feel hard done by regarding the penalty.

Our record v the top 6 rivals so far is very dissapointing to be honest, 6 points from 10 games. It could have been so different considering we were 1 nil up at home to Preston, 2 nil up away at Preston, 1 nil up at West Brom and 2 nil up away at Brentford and collected 2 points from 4 winning positions. Could be make or break at the end of the season. 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, D-side17 said:

According to stats posted on their Oatcake message board, they are the most improved team in the league since 5th Nov (about three weeks before we played them away).

Prior to 5th Nov, they were accumulating points at the rate of 0.5 points per game whereas that rate has improved to 1.4 PPG since 5th Nov.

We are the joint second most improved team (along with Boro) since that date, accumulating points at the rate of 1.2 PPG before 5th Nov and 1.8 PPG afterwards.

Stoke are clearly still very inconsistent but they have undoubtedly improved significantly since we beat them away in November.

By "they've improved, but not by too much" I was intending to say that, yes whilst they have improved - as you have rightly pointed out, they're still not too difficult a side to beat. They have improved, but from the position they were in, that's not really a huge accomplishment. They've gone from God awful to meh, we've gone from okay to wow. 

[oldjamfan1]

2 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

I don't usually bother with night games anymore but making an effort for tonight.

My local has a minibus going up, so I'll be travelling up with 15 Stoke fans which should be an absolute hoot ?

I have a feeling it has draw written all over it, but I'm slightly more confident of this one than Saturday.

Well done for making the effort mate. I hope you are rewarded by travelling back down the M6 with a smug grin on your face.

Edited February 26, 2020 by oldjamfan1

[sabino]

Having listened to all the experts professionals over the years, apparently there is one team we don't want to be playing on a cold rainy night:)

[superniko]

58 minutes ago, JoeH said:

By "they've improved, but not by too much" I was intending to say that, yes whilst they have improved - as you have rightly pointed out, they're still not too difficult a side to beat. They have improved, but from the position they were in, that's not really a huge accomplishment. They've gone from God awful to meh, we've gone from okay to wow. 

They've gone from 'god awful' to 'meh' and we've gone from 'okay' to 'wow'. Yet over the last 15 games we only have 1 more point than them (and we're being praised as this really in form team).

Edited February 26, 2020 by superniko

[had.e.nuff]

22 minutes ago, sabino said:

Having listened to all the experts professionals over the years, apparently there is one team we don't want to be playing on a cold rainy night:)

but thats in stoke its colder in blackburn

[PeteJD13]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Just because one neutral opinion agrees with you doesnt make it a fact chaddy. My opinion was that ours was harsh and theres was not even a doubt about it being a dive but ultimately both were debatable to varying degrees.

The second penalty being dodgy surely only adds to the feeling of disapointment and feeling aggrieved. Whether we would have taken the point prior to kick off was irrelevant when we went 2 nil up in the second half, we certainly wouldnt have taken a point then.

I didnt understand the amount of pessimism on here in terms of the fear of playing a top 6 rival. If we want top 6, we should be relishing these games, we shouldnt have an inferiority complex and we shouldnt be content drawing games we go 2 up in, partly because we commonly throw away points and partly because we can feel hard done by regarding the penalty.

Our record v the top 6 rivals so far is very dissapointing to be honest, 6 points from 10 games. It could have been so different considering we were 1 nil up at home to Preston, 2 nil up away at Preston, 1 nil up at West Brom and 2 nil up away at Brentford and collected 2 points from 4 winning positions. Could be make or break at the end of the season. 

The pessimism stems from parts of the fanbase wanting to dumb down expectations and seemingly settle for mediocrity, so they can always turn round when we are on a bad run and say we are over performing, you know who the usual suspects are on social media  

[philipl]

Wouldn't be surprised if Stoke score first but provided Buckland is not inspired they are not good at keeping opponents out.

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, PeteJD13 said:

The pessimism stems from parts of the fanbase wanting to dumb down expectations and seemingly settle for mediocrity, so they can always turn round when we are on a bad run and say we are over performing, you know who the usual suspects are on social media  

100% Pete. Nothing wrong with feeling disappointed when, as a top 6 challenger, you go to a fellow challenger, go 2 up and dont win the game. As you say, the expectations are dumbed down so that whatever does play out, it is seen as acceptable. We are going for the top 6, are seen as genuine challengers and have the right to feel disappointed when we hit bumps along the way or if we dont make it. We should have a mentality of expecting to win games we are 2 up in, or v 5th bottom at home.

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

100% Pete. Nothing wrong with feeling disappointed when, as a top 6 challenger, you go to a fellow challenger, go 2 up and dont win the game. As you say, the expectations are dumbed down so that whatever does play out, it is seen as acceptable. We are going for the top 6, are seen as genuine challengers and have the right to feel disappointed when we hit bumps along the way or if we dont make it. We should have a mentality of expecting to win games we are 2 up in, or v 5th bottom at home.

Ultimately ,it doesn't matter what the fans think, the players are displaying the mentality you speak of.  I mean you can't criticize fans for being nervous and realistic , to say "expectations are dumbed down" is a bit of a dig at fans I feel.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ultimately ,it doesn't matter what the fans think, the players are displaying the mentality you speak of.  I mean you can't criticize fans for being nervous and realistic , to say "expectations are dumbed down" is a bit of a dig at fans I feel.

I wasnt criticising the mentality of the players.  Perhaps its a result of years and years where we have spent most of the time ambling along in the Championship, often with outside chances of success without ever actually even breaking into the top 6, maybe people think it is unrealistic and unfathomable to suddenly start being ruthless, to start going to top 6 rivals and potentially winning games. I also think some people as @PeteJD13 says dumb down expectations purposely to ensure that if they are not met, there is that defence mechanism in place. There is nothing wrong with for example being frustrated not to be able to see out a 2 nil lead (not for the first time this season) against a top 6 side, especially when a portion of the blame is at the referees door. Its very difficult having been in that position to just coldly revert to, well I would have taken a point beforehand. Equally, when you play 5th bottom at home, and you want the top 6, you should expect a win, it goes without saying that it wont be easy, but a top 6 team would eat up an opportunity like that 9 times out of 10, if not more. Also, every match day, any dropped points will likely be capitalised on by our rivals, if we want top 6/promotion, we should view every game as winnable. I felt that there was an inferiority complex on here going to Brentford on Saturday. It is understandable but if we are to move from mid table fodder to promotion challengers as we seem to be doing, that mindset must change, we can beat anyone.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Just because one neutral opinion agrees with you doesnt make it a fact chaddy. My opinion was that ours was harsh and theres was not even a doubt about it being a dive but ultimately both were debatable to varying degrees.

Agree with many fans opinion. Never said it was fact. Raya's mistake and rightly given according the rules. Look at @Herbie6590 post on the rules. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The second penalty being dodgy surely only adds to the feeling of disapointment and feeling aggrieved. Whether we would have taken the point prior to kick off was irrelevant when we went 2 nil up in the second half, we certainly wouldnt have taken a point then.

No it shows why match officials who are professional at this level arent good enough. I felt aggrieved at the match officials but not disappointed tho. 

No it isn't irrelevant but you say this to suit your point of view. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

didnt understand the amount of pessimism on here in terms of the fear of playing a top 6 rival. 

I don't fear them tho. They are good side but overhyped by certain media outlets tho. We can score them as our 2 goals from open play shows. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Agree with many fans opinion. Never said it was fact. Raya's mistake and rightly given according the rules. Look at @Herbie6590 post on the rules. 

No it shows why match officials who are professional at this level arent good enough. I felt aggrieved at the match officials but not disappointed tho. 

No it isn't irrelevant but you say this to suit your point of view. 

I don't fear them tho. They are good side but overhyped by certain media outlets tho. We can score them as our 2 goals from open play shows. 

At 2 nil up in the second half, standing mid game in the top 6, you wouldnt have taken a 2 all draw.

I felt frustrated that we had thrown away our 22nd and 23rd points of the season, a big concern of mine and passed up a huge chance to break into the top 6. I also felt very frustrated about their penalty. There is nothing wrong with being frustrated in such situations.

[Bigdoggsteel]

22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I wasnt criticising the mentality of the players.  Perhaps its a result of years and years where we have spent most of the time ambling along in the Championship, often with outside chances of success without ever actually even breaking into the top 6, maybe people think it is unrealistic and unfathomable to suddenly start being ruthless, to start going to top 6 rivals and potentially winning games. I also think some people as @PeteJD13 says dumb down expectations purposely to ensure that if they are not met, there is that defence mechanism in place. There is nothing wrong with for example being frustrated not to be able to see out a 2 nil lead (not for the first time this season) against a top 6 side, especially when a portion of the blame is at the referees door. Its very difficult having been in that position to just coldly revert to, well I would have taken a point beforehand. Equally, when you play 5th bottom at home, and you want the top 6, you should expect a win, it goes without saying that it wont be easy, but a top 6 team would eat up an opportunity like that 9 times out of 10, if not more. Also, every match day, any dropped points will likely be capitalised on by our rivals, if we want top 6/promotion, we should view every game as winnable. I felt that there was an inferiority complex on here going to Brentford on Saturday. It is understandable but if we are to move from mid table fodder to promotion challengers as we seem to be doing, that mindset must change, we can beat anyone.

Exactly, you are criticizing the fans mentality and as I said, that really doesn't matter. All that matters is that the players mentality is right, which it appears to be. 

[oldjamfan1]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

At 2 nil up in the second half, standing mid game in the top 6, you wouldnt have taken a 2 all draw.

I felt frustrated that we had thrown away our 22nd and 23rd points of the season, a big concern of mine and passed up a huge chance to break into the top 6. I also felt very frustrated about their penalty. There is nothing wrong with being frustrated in such situations.

This is the bit where I - and it would appear many others - disagree with you though. Yes, over the past couple of seasons we have had a bad record when it comes to not seeing out games from that sort of position (off the top of my head; Brentford (last season), Preston, Birmingham and Wigan games spring to mind but I'm sure there have been more) but you have lazily lumped this Brentford result in with those other games when in reality it was nothing of the sort and we didn't actually 'chuck' anything away, regardless of how frustrating it was at the time for it to happen yet again.

This felt different and isn't at all the same as saying "well, I would have accepted a point before the game therefore I am happy". We were pegged back by a worldie and a bad refereeing decision and therefore there is no blame attached to a Rovers player(s). I can't remember whether you tried to attribute blame to anyone for that first goal, but many people did, initially Walton but also one of the centre halves (Lenihan maybe?) copped it for playing the lad onside. In reality there was no blame attached  - sometimes you just have to say "good goal", regroup and roll your sleeves up and carry on, which is what our players seemed to do. I can't really ask any more than that to be honest.

[roversfan99]

Just now, oldjamfan1 said:

This is the bit where I - and it would appear many others - disagree with you though. Yes, over the past couple of seasons we have had a bad record when it comes to not seeing out games from that sort of position (off the top of my head; Brentford (last season), Preston, Birmingham and Wigan games spring to mind but I'm sure there have been more) but you have lazily lumped this Brentford result in with those other games when in reality it was nothing of the sort and we didn't actually 'chuck' anything away, regardless of how frustrating it was at the time for it to happen yet again.

This felt different and isn't at all the same as saying "well, I would have accepted a point before the game therefore I am happy". We were pegged back by a worldie and a bad refereeing decision and therefore there is no blame attached to a Rovers player(s). I can't remember whether you tried to attribute blame to anyone for that first goal, but many people did, initially Walton but also one of the centre halves (Lenihan maybe?) copped it for playing the lad onside. In reality there was no blame attached  - sometimes you just have to say "good goal", regroup and roll your sleeves up and carry on, which is what our players seemed to do. I can't really ask any more than that to be honest.

There doesnt have to be blame directed at our players necessarily to be frustrated to go from 2 nil up away at a direct rival to only getting a draw. Indeed, much of the frustration would be externally apportioned to the referee for falling for a dive. The first goal I personally have not blamed anyone for, I am not sure you can. You could blame Armstrong for missing a one on one, but he scored 2 before that. 

 Maybe thrown away is a harsh way of putting it but I am just a little surprised that there wasnt a little more frustration, indeed even if it doesnt have to manifest to blame, that we were 2 nil up against a rival and didnt win. You can be frustrated at a loss of a 2 nil lead without being angry at the players or the manager for making specific mistakes.

Regarding the 23 points, of course within a stat like that, there will be occasions or individual games whereby perhaps we arent to blame but obviously it is the overall theme that is a concern.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

There doesnt have to be blame directed at our players necessarily to be frustrated to go from 2 nil up away at a direct rival to only getting a draw. Indeed, much of the frustration would be externally apportioned to the referee for falling for a dive. The first goal I personally have not blamed anyone for, I am not sure you can. You could blame Armstrong for missing a one on one, but he scored 2 before that. 

 Maybe thrown away is a harsh way of putting it but I am just a little surprised that there wasnt a little more frustration, indeed even if it doesnt have to manifest to blame, that we were 2 nil up against a rival and didnt win. You can be frustrated at a loss of a 2 nil lead without being angry at the players or the manager for making specific mistakes.

Regarding the 23 points, of course within a stat like that, there will be occasions or individual games whereby perhaps we arent to blame but obviously it is the overall theme that is a concern.

I don't get who you want to be more angry about the 2 goal lead slipping or what form you want that anger to take? Everybody was raging we didn't win on here after the game. Most rational people just noted that a draw away to a team in the top 6 in isolation, is a good result. We can only take it game by game now. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, superniko said:

They've gone from 'god awful' to 'meh' and we've gone from 'okay' to 'wow'. Yet over the last 15 games we only have 1 more point than them (and we're being praised as this really in form team).

Yes, because they are still in a lowly league position? God Awful to Meh is the same jump as Okay to Wow in terms of distance, but at different points on a scale.

[Scotland1]

Hoping for a 2-0 so BB can get a run out, Be good to see him get a chant if he’s on this evening.

[oldjamfan1]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

There doesnt have to be blame directed at our players necessarily to be frustrated to go from 2 nil up away at a direct rival to only getting a draw. Indeed, much of the frustration would be externally apportioned to the referee for falling for a dive. The first goal I personally have not blamed anyone for, I am not sure you can. You could blame Armstrong for missing a one on one, but he scored 2 before that. 

 Maybe thrown away is a harsh way of putting it but I am just a little surprised that there wasnt a little more frustration, indeed even if it doesnt have to manifest to blame, that we were 2 nil up against a rival and didnt win. You can be frustrated at a loss of a 2 nil lead without being angry at the players or the manager for making specific mistakes.

Regarding the 23 points, of course within a stat like that, there will be occasions or individual games whereby perhaps we arent to blame but obviously it is the overall theme that is a concern.

I certainly felt frustrated that we had let a 2 goal lead slip, but using phrases like 'chucked away' etc (which you have at least acknowledged as harsh now, so credit for that) doesn't really reflect what happened on Saturday. I'm sure most of us had that "FFS not again" feeling, but that's just football really, these things happen. 

[DE.]

10 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Yes, because they are still in a lowly league position? God Awful to Meh is the same jump as Okay to Wow in terms of distance, but at different points on a scale.

These lads got smashed 4-2 by QPR on 15th Feb, beaten 2-0 by Preston on 12th Feb and also got hammered 4-0 by Derby on 31st Jan. Nothing to fear if we're positive and go for it from the off.

[Dreams of 1995]

54 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I wasnt criticising the mentality of the players.  Perhaps its a result of years and years where we have spent most of the time ambling along in the Championship, often with outside chances of success without ever actually even breaking into the top 6, maybe people think it is unrealistic and unfathomable to suddenly start being ruthless, to start going to top 6 rivals and potentially winning games. I also think some people as @PeteJD13 says dumb down expectations purposely to ensure that if they are not met, there is that defence mechanism in place. There is nothing wrong with for example being frustrated not to be able to see out a 2 nil lead (not for the first time this season) against a top 6 side, especially when a portion of the blame is at the referees door. Its very difficult having been in that position to just coldly revert to, well I would have taken a point beforehand. Equally, when you play 5th bottom at home, and you want the top 6, you should expect a win, it goes without saying that it wont be easy, but a top 6 team would eat up an opportunity like that 9 times out of 10, if not more. Also, every match day, any dropped points will likely be capitalised on by our rivals, if we want top 6/promotion, we should view every game as winnable. I felt that there was an inferiority complex on here going to Brentford on Saturday. It is understandable but if we are to move from mid table fodder to promotion challengers as we seem to be doing, that mindset must change, we can beat anyone.

You believe that certain fans are "dumbing down expectations" so that, on the occasion their opinion on football is wrong, they can fall back on that argument? 

What a load of horse shit. People just have different expectations and see situations differently. It happens in all walks of life. Your opinion is based on your interpretation of current events, theirs likewise. Just because theirs is more conservative than yours doesn't mean they are 'setting up a defence'.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I presume James McLean will start left mid tonight. I can't see him getting much change out of Nyambe to be fair as his main move is to try and kick it passed the full back and that's not going to get you far against Nyambe. He will keep going though, so need to keep alert. If Johnson or Travis get near him, we could have an incident though  

[Tom]

Snow falling in cherry tree

Doubt there will be nearly enough to jeopardise the game but it’s going to be a minging walk down!