Stoke City home

[Fraserkirky]

1 minute ago, neophox said:

I would say Stoke are harder to beat than Swansea. But who will play with Tosin?

It will be Nyambe, with Bennett at Right Back. 

Ayew and Brewster will have field days.

[Gary C]

Bell doesn't really show good movement when he gets past the half way line. Hes reluctant to bomb forward like Nyambe  and moves the ball backwards or sideways or loses possession. Wouldnt get a new contract for me. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Gary C said:

Bell doesn't really show good movement when he gets past the half way line. Hes reluctant to bomb forward like Nyambe  and moves the ball backwards or sideways or loses possession. Wouldnt get a new contract for me. 

Indeed, even Cunningham too was braver and more direct. I think Bell has more in him, but I don't know if he will ever deliver it. 

[Bbrovers2288]

7 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He can run with it after a fashion but the next Bohinen, Berkovic,or  Dunn he isn't.

We lost our player of that calibre in dack but in his absence we need others to step up. More than one way of skinning a cat as they say, an unlocker comes in many forms. Tugay and Dunn were very different styles both both capable of breaking through stern defences. Travis could be more of a say David Thompson , craig hignett kind of unlocker- conmfortable on the ball, can see a pass, can run and strike from -relative- distance 

[frosty]

11 minutes ago, neophox said:

I would say Stoke are harder to beat than Swansea. But who will play with Tosin?

I know what you’re getting at but Stoke have lost 19 games this season (only Luton have lost more). 

Swansea have lost 10.

[Mercer]

53 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, so O'Neill obviously worked religiously on their shape and defending before playing us. Unfortunate. A goal would have opened things up and they might have actually pushed put. 

Conversely, it would seem Mowbray did insufficient work on the training ground and got his tactics and team selection wrong.  He must have known what was coming but couldn't counter it.

We need enlightened thinking and sadly, IMO, it will never come from Mowbray, Venus, Lowe and Benson who, I think are either tactical dinosars or just plain incompetent.

[Mercer]

17 minutes ago, neophox said:

Martin Oneill says we are one of the best teams in this division.....

Age old managerial tactic - excuses a defeat or makes your result look good!

[Crimpshrine]

13 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I may be wrong here, don’t think I am, but that £12 million was not available for the squad. These were special allowances for players Venkys think we can develop for profit. I’m certain it wasn’t there to buy 4/5 players with.

Venky's treating our club like a hedge fund and tying the manager's hands at the same time. On the threshold of FFP because Venky's are playing their little games leaving no money in January when we needed it.  Mowbray shouldn't put up with it and neither should we.  No way to run a football club.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Mercer said:

Conversely, it would seem Mowbray did insufficient work on the training ground and got his tactics and team selection wrong.  He must have known what was coming but couldn't counter it.

We need enlightened thinking and sadly, IMO, it will never come from Mowbray, Venus, Lowe and Benson who, I think are either tactical dinosars or just plain incompetent.

I thought we were set up fine. Controlled the game, just didn't have the cutting edge or performances from the likes of Rothwell. Can argue Samuel should have started, or that maybe we could have went 4-4-2, but it was a resolute and error free defensive performance. Just didn't get a bit of luck either. Missed Dack in games like yesterdays. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

19 minutes ago, neophox said:

I would say Stoke are harder to beat than Swansea. But who will play with Tosin?

Indeed. Swansea will at least commit players forward and try to attack. 

[Pedro]

20 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

"They didn't need to defend well" Ok, lets leave it at that. If people refuse to acknowledge how well organised, disciplined and hard working Stoke were in defence, there is really nothing to discuss. It's difficult to play against. I should know, it's what Ireland do to teams. We controlled the game, we needed more from the likes of Rothwell and Downing , but with Stoke so, so deep it nullified Armstrong a lot. They maintained their focus and crucially made no individual errors to let us in. They have top level players to be fair. 

"You should know" - sorry oh mighty and wise one.  

 

Stoke didn't need to break a sweat - fact.  They weren't great but we certainly didn't control the game (is this a Tony soundbite or something? It sounds like one) - Stoke got cross after cross into the box first half, straight across our six yard box and missed some real sitters - that isn't controlling the game. Second half, we were really lethargic. Shit in fact. Slow with the ball, wasteful with the passing and popped a number of pathetic shots at goal. Stoke were happy with the draw and delighted to watch us wind the clock down - yet again and for us to pass along our box or the halfway line whilst they ambled back into position. No urgency at all.

We were bad and they weren't masterful.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Pedro said:

"You should know" - sorry oh mighty and wise one.  

 

Stoke didn't need to break a sweat - fact.  They weren't great but we certainly didn't control the game (is this a Tony soundbite or something? It sounds like one) - Stoke got cross after cross into the box first half, straight across our six yard box and missed some real sitters - that isn't controlling the game. Second half, we were really lethargic. Shit in fact. Slow with the ball, wasteful with the passing and popped a number of pathetic shots at goal. Stoke were happy with the draw and delighted to watch us wind the clock down - yet again and for us to pass along our box or the halfway line whilst they ambled back into position. No urgency at all.

We were bad and they weren't masterful.

"Stoke got cross after cross into our box"? Give over ? They had a few. We had 65% possession with 80% pass completion  I would say a similar % of the game was played in their half. No doubt we could have been quicker and more direct, but they were well organised and well drilled. Sometimes you need someone to make an error to let you in, or for the opposition to actually push out a bit. Neither happened , unfortunately. 

We were average and didn't get a break , but they defended very well. 

[Pedro]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

"Stoke got cross after cross into our box"? Give over ? They had a few. We had 65% possession with 80% pass completion  I would say a similar % of the game was played in their half. No doubt we could have been quicker and more direct, but they were well organised and well drilled. Sometimes you need someone to make an error to let you in, or for the opposition to actually push out a bit. Neither happened , unfortunately. 

We were average and didn't get a break , but they defended very well. 

If you piss about knocking a dozen passes to feet in your own half, you are going to have a decent percentage even when you needlessly give the ball back when crossing the halfway line.  It is a terrible trait of our game and yesterday especially, our passing was utter shit. 

Genuine question though, do you go to games or repeat what Tony says in interviews and check out Opta?  Because I get tired of this more possession and dominating nonsense. Possession is not dominating a game and possession does not equate to results. It isn't a badge of honour either - goals and points are.  

Also, watch that first half back and tell me that Stoke didn't get a load of dangerous balls across our goal. They did. The half died out and other than a feeble Armstrong attempt and a good effort by Gally - it was a bore-fest until 80mins.  Then we stepped up half a gear but it was too little, too late.

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 minutes ago, Pedro said:

If you piss about knocking a dozen passes to feet in your own half, you are going to have a decent percentage even when you needlessly give the ball back when crossing the halfway line.  It is a terrible trait of our game and yesterday especially, our passing was utter shit. 

Genuine question though, do you go to games or repeat what Tony says in interviews and check out Opta?  Because I get tired of this more possession and dominating nonsense. Possession is not dominating a game and possession does not equate to results. It isn't a badge of honour either - goals and points are.  

Also, watch that first half back and tell me that Stoke didn't get a load of dangerous balls across our goal. They did. The half died out and other than a feeble Armstrong attempt and a good effort by Gally - it was a bore-fest until 80mins.  Then we stepped up half a gear but it was too little, too late.

No, it's not a genuine question, it's been an arse. I never said possession equates to results, not once. It shows, along with the evidence of watching the game that we controlled the possession and pegged them back for most of the game. I used stats because it seems you couldn't see it or refuse to acknowledge it. Of course it is irrelevant ultimately, as I agree its goals and points that matter. I'm just not agreeing that we were as "shit" as you are making out, or that Stoke were as shit defensively as you are making out. 

I also agree that the laborious tapping around out of defence is bollox. That's on our midfield, Rothwell and Downing in particular to turn and get things going. Games like last night you need someone to score a worldie or you need a bit of luck. If either of those things happened, I bet our performance would look a lot better. The performance was not anywhere near on par with some games I recall like that Wigan game, 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[K-Hod]

It’s no good having all that possession if it’s without purpose. 

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Johnson is a proper shit house. Always falls on his player with his forearm out right into their back / neck. When he got cracked in the back yesterday he got up and you saw him fly into the next tackle.

I like him. I think him and Travis are a good partnership. That said Evans looked good next to Travis so maybe it's him who makes those better around him. I can't remember an Evans / Johnson partnership ever being as good as one of them paired with Trav.

If we had direct wingers either side of them it is literally a perfect midfield. Johnson and Travis winning the ball and any footballer can make that angled pass behind the full back to a winger.

I am not sure that it is a perfect midfield especially if the aim is to control the games through midfield as neither can dictate the game. 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I thought we were set up fine. Controlled the game, just didn't have the cutting edge or performances from the likes of Rothwell. Can argue Samuel should have started, or that maybe we could have went 4-4-2, but it was a resolute and error free defensive performance. Just didn't get a bit of luck either. Missed Dack in games like yesterdays. 

We never ever looked like we was going to win the game though. With Gallagher spending much of his time on the wing again any hopes of balance were instantly lost. We are dying for some natural width to stretch teams as with Rothwell wanting to come inside we are reliant on 2 full backs to provide the width who between them have less assists than our goalkeeper. 

[Guest]

We're just a team with no wingers. I've said it so many times around 70 minutes into home games this season, we miss Craig Conway way too often.

Nyambe, Bell, Armstrong, Rothwell... none of them can cross a football. We've got Sam Gallagher upfront who clearly wants to get on the end of things with his head, as he managed to twice last night, and he's getting barely any service.

In the summer the main priority has to be two competent wide players, one for each bloody side. 

[Gary C]

Totally agree. Need natural wingers who have good delivery which will benefit the team and our misfiring 5 million pound man 

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

"They didn't need to defend well" Ok, lets leave it at that. If people refuse to acknowledge how well organised, disciplined and hard working Stoke were in defence, there is really nothing to discuss. It's difficult to play against. I should know, it's what Ireland do to teams. We controlled the game, we needed more from the likes of Rothwell and Downing , but with Stoke so, so deep it nullified Armstrong a lot. They maintained their focus and crucially made no individual errors to let us in. They have top level players to be fair. 

Not sure their top level players are in defence though.

They kept a clean sheet in their previous game, but before that they conceded 11 in their last 4 games.

[darrenrover]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

"They didn't need to defend well" Ok, lets leave it at that. If people refuse to acknowledge how well organised, disciplined and hard working Stoke were in defence, there is really nothing to discuss. It's difficult to play against. I should know, it's what Ireland do to teams. We controlled the game, we needed more from the likes of Rothwell and Downing , but with Stoke so, so deep it nullified Armstrong a lot. They maintained their focus and crucially made no individual errors to let us in. They have top level players to be fair. 

You're quite correct that Stoke defended well, it's what O'Neill teams do and was only to be expected. What frustrates is that why didn't Mowbray set the team up to counteract that? When what he'd started with clearly wasn't working, why didn't he change the formation and pattern of play? 

There's thousands of us that knew what game to expect and that we wouldn't have the nous to break it down, it wasn't a surprise. Mowbray and his team should have had a trick or two up their sleeve but they didn't, as per usual. 

It's so bloody frustrating that we can see it but evidently they can't. Possession where it doesn't matter counts for bugger all.

Edited February 27, 2020 by darrenrover

[Colt Seavers]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Whats the crowds excuse 

They were busy bringing one or two points to the attention of Sam Vokes to be fair.

[jim mk2]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

Conversely, it would seem Mowbray did insufficient work on the training ground and got his tactics and team selection wrong.  He must have known what was coming but couldn't counter it.

We need enlightened thinking and sadly, IMO, it will never come from Mowbray, Venus, Lowe and Benson who, I think are either tactical dinosars or just plain incompetent.

Agreed.

So why did you do your usual trolling post before kickoff saying we'd win easily? 

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

It’s no good having all that possession if it’s without purpose. 

So much pointless possession, waiting for the through ball that never comes. Soul destroying!

It feels like I have sat through last night's events on many occasions. It is like a script at home. ZZzzzzzzz....

[bazza]

6 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not sure if it's been mentioned,but imagine the scenes if that shot from Nyambe went in. Lordy. I thought it was in. 

I thought it was in, too. I think that's the first time Nyambe has tried a shot. I hope it's TM telling him to do so. I hope he tries it more often. What a shame it didn't fly into the top corner.