Derby County (A) - Sunday 8th March [3pm KO]

[Don Said]

22 minutes ago, arbitro said:

One thing that really hit home to me yesterday was the lack of positional awareness of our strikers. Early on I thought Bell put in some good crosses from the left side which were dealt with comfortably by the Derby defenders. Our forwards just didn't make good enough runs for one of them to at least challenge the opposition players. And after the first fifteen minutes they got lazy and didn't press high enough and allowed Derby to play from the back through midfield where invariably we were outnumbered. I don't know if they are lazy, unfit, poorly coached or just useless. I do know though that so far there has been little indication that two of them are anywhere near Championship standard.

It's become painful to watch, yesterday was a prime representation of SG & BB's Rovers careers so far.

Consistently play like headless chickens. I understand they've found themselves on the wing a lot but regardless, they've both had ample opportunity playing as and around a number 9 role.

They cause very few issues to defenders on balls in to the box despite being something like 6'3 and 6'5. Rarely get head or foot to the ball and it's a breeze for the defender. 

When balls do fall to them in the box, they tend to panic and finishing is wild/poor. How often do they trouble the goalkeeper?

Around the box, when needing to square the ball or link somebody in, again it's usually near post straight to the keeper or ballooned beyond everybody for a goal kick or throw in.

It's surely a basic expectation to think your big money strikers at this level can at least cause a few problems and put themselves about each week?

Playing those two to save face will potentially cost our season. If Danny Graham (15 goals last season) had kept his place, or at least been the man to step in post Dack's injury, i'm convinced we'd have more points on the board. He gives the defenders something to really deal with, scores an acceptable amount of goals against the chances that fall to him and knits the attack together by using his strength and first touch.

I want them to succeed as we all do, and I keep hearing they've got potential, but after over a year of watching them both I'm really struggling to get on board with them.

Whether the players are simply crap, the coaches are misuing them, they don't fit the system or whatever, something needs to change and click soon.

[Leonard Venkhater]

12 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Three times we have been in the championship play off positions under Venkys.

25th August 2012 - 6th October 2012 (6 weeks) - K*an & Black

22nd November 2014 - 6th December 2014 (2 Weeks) - Bowyer

25th August 2018 - 1st September 2018 (1 Week) - Mowbray

 

Thanks, but I think you will agree that compares very poorly to the Rovers' performance in the 80's?

[Sparks Rover]

12 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

He had the best possible development money could buy at Utd. Had two loans, neither of who came back for him, and ended up at Oxford Utd. where he’d still be if we hadn’t signed him for nothing. A lot of football people better than Mowbray must have also used him badly.

Or maybe he’s just a bit crap.

He is very far from crap. I've seen him at times early this season be virtually unplayable and the only bright spark in some shit bland football.  

My view is that he can be best utilized as either a proper number 10 with no defensive responsibilities and I also think he could play up front with a big man who can win flick ons, lay it off to him higher up the pitch.  One on one he can ghost past defenders,  Mowbray plays him too deep so he's always got 3,4,5 of their team ahead of him. Plus , he's shyte defensively, so why give him those responsibilities?

The more I thi k about it, I just think Mowbray is either, not capable of getting us higher or he is taking the piss .......not sure which at the moment 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[Exiled in Toronto]

I’ve only ever seen him ghost past midfielders who are mostly content to let him run across the pitch. However, near the penalty area he either runs into traffic, passes to an opponent or puts crosses into the Riverside - as you say, a classic number 10...

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

And his best position is.......?

CM or CAM.

[TBTF]

18 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

A change is not necessarily going to result in improvement. Going from Allardyce to Kean, for example. But the point was more about the decision makers - who is left to actually make decisions if everyone gets the bullet from India ?

who do you think makes the decisions now?? she does and always has. The ones at Ewood are puppets-pointless and useless

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, TBTF said:

who do you think makes the decisions now?? she does and always has. The ones at Ewood are puppets-pointless and useless

So what purpose is served by firing them ?

[MarkBRFC]

18 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Thanks, but I think you will agree that compares very poorly to the Rovers' performance in the 80's?

Without a doubt.

[Colt Seavers]

48 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Sorry. I know I am in danger of labouring this point, but we made a much better fist of it in the 80's.

Twice we missed out only on the last day and we were in the top 2/3 certainly up to Christmas on more than one occasion.

 

When I think of a 2nd tier side containing the likes of Gennoe, Price, Hendry, Barker, Ardiles, Sellars, Gayle, Archibald and Garner, and then I think of our current squad, it's hard not to feel a bit deflated. Those boys would have destroyed what was in truth a fairly poor Derby side yesterday.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

One thing that really hit home to me yesterday was the lack of positional awareness of our strikers. Early on I thought Bell put in some good crosses from the left side which were dealt with comfortably by the Derby defenders. Our forwards just didn't make good enough runs for one of them to at least challenge the opposition players. And after the first fifteen minutes they got lazy and didn't press high enough and allowed Derby to play from the back through midfield where invariably we were outnumbered. I don't know if they are lazy, unfit, poorly coached or just useless. I do know though that so far there has been little indication that two of them are anywhere near Championship standard.

More than once people were howling for someone, Gallagher in particular in the 2nd half to make some kind of attempt to get a head to things.

Absolute ponces some of these lads.

[K-Hod]

33 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

He is very far from crap. I've seen him at times early this season be virtually unplayable and the only bright spark in some shit bland football.  

My view is that he can be best utilized as either a proper number 10 with no defensive responsibilities and I also think he could play up front with a big man who can win flick ons, lay it off to him higher up the pitch.  One on one he can ghost past defenders,  Mowbray plays him too deep so he's always got 3,4,5 of their team ahead of him. Plus , he's shyte defensively, so why give him those responsibilities?

The more I thi k about it, I just think Mowbray is either, not capable of getting us higher or he is taking the piss .......not sure which at the moment 

But that’s where Bradley Dack plays and he’s better than Rothwell...

[rigger]

7 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

But that’s where Bradley Dack plays and he’s better than Rothwell...

Not at the moment 

[oldjamfan1]

Playing Devil's Advocate on this comparison of today's squad and that of The Don in the 80s. While I don't disagree that perhaps only 2 or 3 of this squad would get into Don's late 80s group (Dack and maybe Lenihan and Travis), let us not forget that there were regular accusations from Rovers fans that "we didn't want promotion as we couldn't afford it". And when I say regular I mean every season! 

Rose tinted specs and all that? Had there been a BRFCS message board back then it would have been chock-full of conspiracy theories that would have grown arms and legs in this environment and I don't know which is worse; 'not quite getting there' as we are at the moment or 'collapsing like Devon Loch' in the last quarter of the season when in a seemingly brilliant position, which we seemed to do on a regular basis back then.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I thank God for the Uncle Jack years, because being a Rovers fan has been bloody hard work at times over the other 50 or so of them! 

[joey_big_nose]

Rothwell's a funny one. Has a lot of good attributes. Pace, good technique, can pass the ball pretty well, direct, good dribbler. But for some reason it doesn't really come together. It's a decision making thing I think, which seems like it should be possible to coach. He needs to focus on picking when to run with and when to pass the ball.

I do think the lack of balance in the squad doesn't help him. We have so many players trying to play narrow and no real width, so everyone's getting in each others way. And that's with 2 narrow players out long term (Dack and Holtby - !!)

Edited March 9, 2020 by joey_big_nose

[Miller11]

56 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

A change is not necessarily going to result in improvement. Going from Allardyce to Kean, for example. But the point was more about the decision makers - who is left to actually make decisions if everyone gets the bullet from India ?

Make no mistake, none of the so called directors who work at the club on a day to day basis would have any say on any managerial appointment.

The last three have all come from the same ‘Trusted Advisors’ that inflicted Kean on us

[Mattyblue]

3 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Make no mistake, none of the so called directors who work at the club on a day to day basis would have any say on any managerial appointment.

The last three have all come from the same ‘Trusted Advisors’ that inflicted Kean on us

So Waggott is lying when he says it’s him in charge of such matters if they arise?

[tomphil]

Don't know how many times it needs pointing out how managers are installed at Ewood before the penny will drop.

If or when TM leaves be it for his own reasons, better offer, sacked, retires or whatever the next gaffer will be appointed same as all the others by the same people.  No point keep bothering about what if all the time because it will happen at some point so we'll have to deal with it again sooner or later.

The main thing for me about now or the end of the season is there is a decent squad and foundations in place to which the lions share of credit goes to TM obviously.  So we are in a position of strength compared to last time and compared to sacking someone if you've sold a few players and lost the first ten games of a season.

So the next man has something to build off straight away and if he makes a pigs ear of it there's enough there for it not to be a Coylesqe style disaster.

This project fear has to be put to bed otherwise give Mowbray a contract from now until he's 66 and be done with it !

[Mattyblue]

Don’t doubt it Tomphil, but interesting that Waggott would brazenly lie, or he hasn’t realised the limitations of his role yet as there’s been no vacancy in his tenure...

[MarkBRFC]

I thought it was obvious that Waggott was lying, I can't imagine he has any real power to do anything.

[Miller11]

17 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Don’t doubt it Tomphil, but interesting that Waggott would brazenly lie, or he hasn’t realised the limitations of his role yet as there’s been no vacancy in his tenure...

I think it’s more that he hasn’t realised the limitations yet. He came after HSH brought in Mowbray.

[tomphil]

22 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Don’t doubt it Tomphil, but interesting that Waggott would brazenly lie, or he hasn’t realised the limitations of his role yet as there’s been no vacancy in his tenure...

The true acid test has yet to come but unless they change tack it'll be the same script he'll learn the hard way.

I'm of half a mind thinking i'd rather have him in charge of recruiting a new boss than the other channels unless he's on their books as well.

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

Not at the moment 

Thanks Captain Obvious....

[Crimpshrine]

The manager appointed the CEO. The CEO is not going to sack the manager.

Decision will be made in India only when it's all too late and things have deteriorated beyond repair.  

In Venky's eyes things aren't going too badly at all. Why change anything?

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

He is very far from crap. I've seen him at times early this season be virtually unplayable and the only bright spark in some shit bland football.  

My view is that he can be best utilized as either a proper number 10 with no defensive responsibilities and I also think he could play up front with a big man who can win flick ons, lay it off to him higher up the pitch.  One on one he can ghost past defenders,  Mowbray plays him too deep so he's always got 3,4,5 of their team ahead of him. Plus , he's shyte defensively, so why give him those responsibilities?

The more I thi k about it, I just think Mowbray is either, not capable of getting us higher or he is taking the piss .......not sure which at the moment 

One on one he runs into defenders these days. Dies it time and time again. No good passes forward. I don't see how slightly changing position would improve that. He's just playing useless and that's on him! 

I am sure when he was on his hot streak at the end of last season you weren't on here lauding Mowbray for his contribution to that. 

The same way you were praising Rothwell for that, he needs to be criticized now. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

40 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Don’t doubt it Tomphil, but interesting that Waggott would brazenly lie, or he hasn’t realised the limitations of his role yet as there’s been no vacancy in his tenure...

The man is a professional on a huge contract, he's not brazenly lieing. He may not ultimately have the final say,but of I have no doubt initiating a sacking falls under his remit. Of course the owners can always pre-empt this or over rule him, but that's the same for any club with a chairman and owners. 

If it's on his job description, he does it. Get the tin foil hats off lads!