Promotion next season?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You’ve claimed to me them three players have made a difference but they’re in attack and we’re better than them at scoring goals. 

Mitrovic, Cavaleiro and Knockaert.... please do indulge me... who do we have better than those three?

Fulham are a much more conservative side than us with different tactics... look at Mitro's goal record vs our top striker...

Come on? What's the argument here?

[Dreams of 1995]

18 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Mitrovic, Cavaleiro and Knockaert.... please do indulge me... who do we have better than those three?

Fulham are a much more conservative side than us with different tactics... look at Mitro's goal record vs our top striker...

Come on? What's the argument here?

Your argument is they are better because of their attackers. We've scored more goals than them and spent far less than them so I'd say it isn't.

You love stats and ignore big ones that go against your own opinion. I can't say I've seen Fulham week in week out to know how they play, all I am looking at is "goals scored" vs "goals conceded".

Fulham: GS = 51, GC = 37, GD: 14

Rovers: GS = 52, GC = 42, GD: 10

That tells me they've conceded less than us. In fact their GD is +4 on ours, which conveniently tallies with the W, D, L stats which shows they've won - you guessed it - 4 more. Now if we've scored more than them and conceded more then where do you think them 4 extra wins from Fulham have come from? Their defence.

Only 3 teams have scored more than us this season so for all your hot air about how Gallagher is shit, Samuel is 'far off' (although he hasn't played tbf) it's all bullshit. Our attackers are doing a fine job, it's our back line that is letting us down and has done for many years.

I couldn't give a monkeys uncle about Mitrovic's goal record because even though he has doubled Armstrongs' we've still scored more than Fulham. I would much prefer our goals to be spread across the team frankly. Armstrong has contributed to 17 goals, Mitrovic 24 and he has all them players behind him you've mentioned. Why are you holding Fulham up as a bastion of class when the truth is they're one or two clean sheets away from us?

[Butty]

6 hours ago, JoeH said:

No, next season this is our squad...

Andy Fisher
Joe Hilton

Ryan Nyambe
Darragh Lenihan
Derrick Williams
Charlie Mulgrew
Lewis Thompson
Hayden Carter
Tyler Maglorie
Scott Wharton
Joe Grayson
Matty Platt

Bradley Dack (injured til December)
Lewis Holtby
Lewis Travis
Corry Evans
Bradley Johnson
Joe Rothwell
Harry Chapman
Joe Rankin-Costello
John Buckley
Jacob Davenport
Stefan Mols
Tom White
Brad Lyons
Ben Paton

Adam Armstrong
Ben Brereton
Sam Gallagher
Danny Butterworth
Jack Vale
Luke Brennan

A squad of 17 first team footballers, several of which are only just first team footballers (Buckley/JRC etc). No recognised first team goalkeeper, no proven goalscorer, no left-back or back up right-back and some shite defenders. Unless our plan is to spend £20m in the summer, we'll finish significantly lower next season than we do this. This year is our chance, the league is inconsistent, teams around us have bottled away a lot of points, we're going to lose key players in this squad going into next season. If we don't do it this season, there's no way we do it next, unless we spend big.

You have to replace Tosin, who for me is pretty unique as a footballer, and then you have to replace Walton, or fork out a few million to sign him back. You're looking at over £5m just to get the squad we have this year. Take into account that Bradley Dack is injured until December. Grayson, Butterworth and Holtby all have long term injuries too which will likely affect their starts to the season.

Next season will be a story of Rovers signing a proven goalscorer and kicking on from 19/20, or failing to increase spending and finishing 15th again. 

Can we afford to increase spending without failing FFP though? We’ve spent enough already..

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, JoeH said:

A squad of 17 first team footballers, several of which are only just first team footballers (Buckley/JRC etc). No recognised first team goalkeeper, no proven goalscorer, no left-back or back up right-back and some shite defenders. Unless our plan is to spend £20m in the summer, we'll finish significantly lower next season than we do this. This year is our chance, the league is inconsistent, teams around us have bottled away a lot of points, we're going to lose key players in this squad going into next season. If we don't do it this season, there's no way we do it next, unless we spend big.

You have to replace Tosin, who for me is pretty unique as a footballer, and then you have to replace Walton, or fork out a few million to sign him back. You're looking at over £5m just to get the squad we have this year. Take into account that Bradley Dack is injured until December. Grayson, Butterworth and Holtby all have long term injuries too which will likely affect their starts to the season.

Next season will be a story of Rovers signing a proven goalscorer and kicking on from 19/20, or failing to increase spending and finishing 15th again. 

no proven goalscorer? Adam Armstrong has step up to the mark since playing him up front. 

I don't see why you need to spend 20 millions pounds to improve the squad. Now we are looking to the Europe transfer markets cos it cheaper.

Lose key players? not true at all. 

Mowbray and his recruitment team apparently have deals line up so we will see in the summer. 

Our academy players are coming through so I don't see we need to block their pathway. 

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Bar Armstrong there is not much quality up front at all but there are much more pressing concerns such as the wide areas. A couple of good wide men, Holtby (eventually Dack) and Armstrong could be a dangerous attack.

we are 5th top scorers in the league so your comment doesn't stack stats wise. 9th best defensive record. 

6 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I don't think we could afford Tosin and Walton really. We may get Walton as he is in his last year of his contract but that depends on Brighton surviving really.

Hopefully we can get Tosin on loan but I'd imagine his time in the Prem or top league abroad has come. He's a very good player.

All in all we'd need just shy of about £20m if we are to sign permanently every player we need. This is the Championship though so loans are important; I'd imagine we'll buy a goalkeeper, centre half and left back and try and loan the rest.

Our biggest problem is who leaves. It won't be Dack so it leaves Lenihan, Armstrong and Travis who I think are worth decent money. We can't afford to lose any of them whereas we probably could have afforded to lose Dack. 

I think we are more likely to get Tosin back on loan than Walton come back next season. 

I don't see why anybody needs to be sold this summer. I would agree that we can afford to lose Dack and adapt without him. 

 

6 hours ago, JoeH said:

2x Goalkeepers
2x Centre Backs
1x Left Back
2x Wingers
1x Striker

That's 8 signings needed. Even if you can manage three of them on loan, that's still 5 proper, decent money signings... when was the last time we went out and did that?

We agree we need 2 keepers, 2 centre backs and 1 left back, cos I see Rovers exercise the club option on Bell for 12 months extension. 

I feel we need only need 1 striker in if Graham goes and Samuel contract is extended and whether we are going to play 4-4-2 going forward more. If we are looking at striker signing I would prefer a target man who gives you a plan B option if plan A doesn't work. 

Only need 1 winger cos of the options we already got there. Also feel we need a back up right back if Nyambe gets injury. 

[DeeCee]

Love your positivity ? More of a realist myself.

[Amo]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

no proven goalscorer? Adam Armstrong has step up to the mark since playing him up front. 

Think you need more than one season to be a "proven" anything.

[Mr. E]

Tosin is growing dramatically above Championship level, he will not be playing at this level next season, that's one thing that's pretty guaranteed. 

[neophox]

Teemu Pukki should be a transfer target! Could ve available in summer.

[neophox]

14 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

A new manager is needed to achieve that goal and someone to score 20 plus goals..

Pukki the 20 plus scorer

[frosty]

42 minutes ago, neophox said:

Teemu Pukki should be a transfer target! Could ve available in summer.

I doubt that’d be realistic. If they go down he’d be crucial for them next season. If they stay up he’d stay.

And if he bags a few goals between now and the end of the season or has a good Euro’s, someone at a higher level than us might take a punt on him.

Edited March 5, 2020 by frosty

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Your argument is they are better because of their attackers.

My argument is they're better than us because they have better attackers... they simply do. Compare their front three with ours...

Here's a nice stat for you which proves my point:

 

They play differently to us, they don't throw men forward. They sit on 1-0 and 2-0 leads and play out the point because not only do they have better attackers than us, they also have a very solid defence to. If you can't accept that Mitrovic is better than Armstrong, Cavaleiro better than Rothwell and Knockaert better than - idk let's say - Stewart Downing... then I think you truly are living in a Dream @Dreams of 1995

 

[Mattyblue]

But you don’t need to have a squad as expensively assembled as Fulham’s to have a shot at promotion. As the other play off contenders prove.

We don’t and won’t have that kind of budget, so why keep going with the comparison? 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Only 3 teams have scored more than us this season so for all your hot air about how Gallagher is shit, Samuel is 'far off' (although he hasn't played tbf) it's all bullshit. Our attackers are doing a fine job, it's our back line that is letting us down and has done for many years.

I'm sorry, I think I must be confused, lost maybe. I'd like to get some clarification.... because SURELY you're not saying that because we've scored a decent amount of goals as a team, that means Sam Gallagher isn't one of the worst strikers in the division?

He's scored about 4 bloody league goals man and started nearly every game. He's statistically one of the worst in the Championship. But because we've scored some goals around the team, Lenihan, Buckley, Downing, Holtby - Gallagher MUST be great?

Please Lord, tell me that's not your point. Because surely anyone can see that's delusional no? Blackburn have scored more goals than Fulham so Sam Gallagher is as good as Mitrovic... have mercy on my heart rate.

[Guest]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

But you don’t need to have a squad as expensively assembled as Fulham’s to have a shot at promotion. As the other play off contenders prove.

We don’t and won’t have that kind of budget, so why keep going with the comparison? 

I'm not continuing a comparison, I'm defending the fact that Cavaleiro, Knockaert and Mitro are better than our front three, by a LONG way. Because somehow to @Dreams of 1995 the fact that as a team we've scored a bunch of goals, means Sam Gallagher is suddenly a decent striker!

We're nothing like Fulham, I'm not saying we are, I'm simply saying the way to get promotion is to get yourselves a 20 goal a season striker and some decent wingers. 

[ben_the_beast]

If we did as the OP said and manage to bring back Walton, Cunningham and Tosin in a combination of loans and signings we would still need 2 more. One more centre back for depth and a right winger. Maybe that polish fella. 

Then I would be confident. 5 signings is a lot though. But that is what the squad requires. With proper service i wouldn't bet against Armstrong hitting 20 next season.

[DE.]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

We're nothing like Fulham, I'm not saying we are, I'm simply saying the way to get promotion is to get yourselves a 20 goal a season striker and some decent wingers. 

We had that under Bowyer (in fact we had x2 of the 20+ a season strikers) and still failed!

[Butty]

11 hours ago, neophox said:

Teemu Pukki should be a transfer target! Could ve available in summer.

Can I have a bit of whatever you’re smoking please? 

[Dreams of 1995]

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

I'm sorry, I think I must be confused, lost maybe. I'd like to get some clarification.... because SURELY you're not saying that because we've scored a decent amount of goals as a team, that means Sam Gallagher isn't one of the worst strikers in the division?

He's scored about 4 bloody league goals man and started nearly every game. He's statistically one of the worst in the Championship. But because we've scored some goals around the team, Lenihan, Buckley, Downing, Holtby - Gallagher MUST be great?

Please Lord, tell me that's not your point. Because surely anyone can see that's delusional no? Blackburn have scored more goals than Fulham so Sam Gallagher is as good as Mitrovic... have mercy on my heart rate.

Ok, you're going a bit dramatic. This topic is about promotion and not Sam Gallagher. You speak like a man who has never played football in his life. I've been in teams where we've had a central striker scoring all the goals and I've been in teams where the goals have been spread about - I know which one I'd prefer. That's not me saying "don't sign him, he scores too many goals", that's me saying hinging promotion / success on one player is wrong.

A decent amount of goals = 4th most. Now if we had conceded the same as Fulham we'd be in Fulham's position. So, at a quick glance, where does that tell you our problems lie? If we are scoring more than them but not wining as many then it tells me our defensive side of the team isn't up to it.

You dislike SG, we get it. However at the moment he is part of an attacking unit that has scored the 4th most league goals in the league. I don't think in the part where I quoted I said Gallagher was great, I just said for all your guff about how shit our players are and how fantastically amazing Fulham are we are doing better than them in that regard.

This comparison with Fulham is bullshit. They can spend upwards of 15m on a player whilst we are baulking at the idea of a £5m one.

I'd suggest a week or so off the SG subject if your heart rate goes up at the mere thought of someone having a different thought on the matter.

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

My argument is they're better than us because they have better attackers... they simply do. Compare their front three with ours...

Here's a nice stat for you which proves my point:

 

They play differently to us, they don't throw men forward. They sit on 1-0 and 2-0 leads and play out the point because not only do they have better attackers than us, they also have a very solid defence to. If you can't accept that Mitrovic is better than Armstrong, Cavaleiro better than Rothwell and Knockaert better than - idk let's say - Stewart Downing... then I think you truly are living in a Dream @Dreams of 1995

 

I never once denied they were ahead of us - I even gave you those stats - but the goals scored vs goals conceded column tells me they are ahead of us only because they have conceded less than us. They've spent hundreds of millions more and they are 3 wins and a draw away from us because we concede way too many goals. Take a look at how many points we've thrown away this season. Our attackers are doing the job in finding the lead but our defensive side aren't doing theirs in keeping it. Honestly, this is like football 101 here.

Again, I should point out, I don't care about Mitrovic, Knockeart, Cavaleiro or whatever. It is very very clear to see that this Rovers side has goals in it - as we always have under Mowbray really - but our defensive side is letting us down and has done since the days of Gary Bowyer.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

To answer the question. No, we won't be getting promoted. This season was our best chance and it doesn't look like it's going to happen. Other more ambitious clubs will be in for our better players in the close season and I expect us to start next season with a weaker team than we have now. Sorry I couldn't paint a more rosy picture but it is what it is.

[Blue blood]

On ‎05‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 08:38, JoeH said:

No, next season this is our squad...

Andy Fisher
Joe Hilton

Ryan Nyambe
Darragh Lenihan
Derrick Williams
Charlie Mulgrew
Lewis Thompson
Hayden Carter
Tyler Maglorie
Scott Wharton
Joe Grayson
Matty Platt

Bradley Dack (injured til December)
Lewis Holtby
Lewis Travis
Corry Evans
Bradley Johnson
Joe Rothwell
Harry Chapman
Joe Rankin-Costello
John Buckley
Jacob Davenport
Stefan Mols
Tom White
Brad Lyons
Ben Paton

Adam Armstrong
Ben Brereton
Sam Gallagher
Danny Butterworth
Jack Vale
Luke Brennan

A squad of 17 first team footballers, several of which are only just first team footballers (Buckley/JRC etc). No recognised first team goalkeeper, no proven goalscorer, no left-back or back up right-back and some shite defenders. Unless our plan is to spend £20m in the summer, we'll finish significantly lower next season than we do this. This year is our chance, the league is inconsistent, teams around us have bottled away a lot of points, we're going to lose key players in this squad going into next season. If we don't do it this season, there's no way we do it next, unless we spend big.

You have to replace Tosin, who for me is pretty unique as a footballer, and then you have to replace Walton, or fork out a few million to sign him back. You're looking at over £5m just to get the squad we have this year. Take into account that Bradley Dack is injured until December. Grayson, Butterworth and Holtby all have long term injuries too which will likely affect their starts to the season.

Next season will be a story of Rovers signing a proven goalscorer and kicking on from 19/20, or failing to increase spending and finishing 15th again. 

This should have closed the thread down as it shows how much work the team needs in the summer. Classing Chapman and JRC s first team footballers (and possibly Buckley) is very positive given how little football they have played. Mulgrew won't play for us again. All in all, that's not much guaranteed first team dependables whatsoever (although I hope our youngsters can push on.)

Then if we get pedantic about quality Williams and Bereton shouldn't be on that list, and I don't think mulgrew or Johnson will have the legs for next season. Grim times. This season really is do or die.

[Miker]

30 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I've been in teams where we've had a central striker scoring all the goals and I've been in teams where the goals have been spread about - I know which one I'd prefer. 

Actually if you look at the teams in the top 10, all of them have goals spread out among the team, with the exception of 1 or 2 clubs. So we're not exactly special in that regard, although obviously it's a good thing that the goals are shared around the team.

I think where our problem lies is the fact that Gallagher is our 3rd highest goalscorer this season despite not exactly pulling up trees. Our 2nd highest goalscorer (Dack) is injured until December, and our other highest goal contributors are our oldest players (Downing, Bennett, Graham). 

So that doesn't bode well for next season. It also means that our main goal contributions are coming from players that are either past it, long-term injured or in inconsistent form. That to me highlights the inconsistencies of this season and why we are on the verge of a playoff spot but probably won't get it in the end. Other than Armstrong, no one has really consistently performed in terms of goal contribution. 

Defensively, if we had a back 5 next season of Cunningham, Lenihan, Tosin, Nyambe & Walton I would be more than happy. Unlikely to happen unfortunately - due to Cunningham's injury & Walton/Tosin being too costly -  but that back 5 would be good enough to get promoted.

Next season a major revamp is required in both attack and defence, and our existing players like Gallagher and Rothwell really need to step up their game and contribute. I'm not confident we can challenge for promotion until I see how we go with recruitment.

[Guest]

On 06/03/2020 at 10:33, Dreams of 1995 said:

I'd suggest a week or so off the SG subject if your heart rate goes up at the mere thought of someone having a different thought on the matter.

My heart rate is fine. Sam Gallagher is a poor striker, and the team around him scoring a good amount of goals, yet him getting barely any, is NOT a positive on SG's chart. No matter what way you spin it.

Edited March 7, 2020 by JoeH

[Dreams of 1995]

51 minutes ago, JoeH said:

My heart rate is fine. Sam Gallagher is a poor striker, and the team around him scoring a good amount of goals, yet him getting barely any, is NOT a positive on SG's chart. No matter what way you spin it.

The topic wasn’t about Sam Gallagher, neither was my post. Stop getting worked up about it. 
 

In your dramatic reaction to a single sentence in my post you’ve allowed the point I’m making to go completely over your head. Never mind. 

[jim mk2]

18 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

The topic wasn’t about Sam Gallagher, neither was my post. Stop getting worked up about it. 
 

In your dramatic reaction to a single sentence in my post you’ve allowed the point I’m making to go completely over your head. Never mind. 

 You always come across as very angry.

Do you have problems in your life? 

[Pedro]

No promotion under Mowbray. He just doesn't see or do the obvious for massive chunks of the season.