Football League Suspended

[rigger]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Legal issues will be considered by the PL and EFL teams if the season is null and void or finished now. Simple as. 

League 1 and 2 clubs seem happy to end the season now as their players have been furlough and some players contract end at this month. Premier League and Championship clubs want to finish. Burnley's Ben Mee has said they want to finish the season and even in neutral venues. 

You cannot based the continental qualification on last seasons as a number of those clubs aren't in the current spots for those competition. Like Spurs who are 8th currently but would qualify for Champions league but Leicester who are 3 don't qualified for champions league football. Arsenal are 9th or 10th but qualify for Europa league. 

If you look at Rick Parry's comments about a couple of seasons ago the PL received 3 billions pounds in TV revenue which all went on Players wages. 

Rovers players wages are cut till end of June so they wont be back 100% till after that. 

But we don't know the circumstances of those players inflected and how in Italy. But lets see how the German model goes on for a couple of weeks. If it goes well there then surely it can here

 

But if this season is nullified it doesn’t matter about a teams present position. That is the reason behind nullifying the season

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, rigger said:

But if this season is nullified it doesn’t matter about a teams present position. That is the reason behind nullifying the season

but nullifying the season will other problems like legal battles, teams unhappy with that. 

Have you see the 2 teams in France that is unhappy with their season being finishing the league as it is and Lyon is talking about taking legal action. 

Lets see how the German season goes. Plus what comes out from the discussion with PL teams and Championship teams

 

 

[rigger]

34 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

but nullifying the season will other problems like legal battles, teams unhappy with that. 

Have you see the 2 teams in France that is unhappy with their season being finishing the league as it is and Lyon is talking about taking legal action. 

Lets see how the German season goes. Plus what comes out from the discussion with PL teams and Championship teams

 

 

I have stated earlier what I think should happen about the legal arguments. I’d prefer our judiciary to make a decision, rather than seeing what happens in other countries. 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Legal issues will be considered by the PL and EFL teams if the season is null and void or finished now. Simple as. 

League 1 and 2 clubs seem happy to end the season now as their players have been furlough and some players contract end at this month. Premier League and Championship clubs want to finish. Burnley's Ben Mee has said they want to finish the season and even in neutral venues. 

You cannot based the continental qualification on last seasons as a number of those clubs aren't in the current spots for those competition. Like Spurs who are 8th currently but would qualify for Champions league but Leicester who are 3 don't qualified for champions league football. Arsenal are 9th or 10th but qualify for Europa league. 

If you look at Rick Parry's comments about a couple of seasons ago the PL received 3 billions pounds in TV revenue which all went on Players wages. 

Rovers players wages are cut till end of June so they wont be back 100% till after that. 

But we don't know the circumstances of those players inflected and how in Italy. But lets see how the German model goes on for a couple of weeks. If it goes well there then surely it can here

 

My stance is very much that health should come before legal issues. But you dont seem to be able to grasp that there will be legal consequences NO MATTER HOW THE SEASON IS FINISHED/NOT FINISHED. Brighton are a good example, say they finish the season behind closed doors, and Brighton go down, they have more "home" games left and have publically stated that they feel that "sporting integrity" will have been compromised.

Both finishing the season and not finishing the season will bring with it teams that feel cheated, legal proceedings and sporting integrity compromised, so such matters shouldnt be considered.

Is it necessarily fair to put teams in Europe based on last season? No. But it is it fair to have teams promoted based on their season so far, which is not completed from League 1? Again, no.

BOTH null and voiding AND finishing the season has a series of negative consequences, potential legal issues and neither maintain sporting integrity. To use that as a reason either way is not a credible reason.

Your last paragraph makes little sense. Surely if it goes well in Germany, it can work in Italy? Even though 3 players in the same team have the virus!

I personally believe that your understandable desperation to watch some football is making you only see issues in the prospect of nulling and voiding the season, even when there are very similar issues that are thrown up if you do complete the season behind closed doors. And you are under-appreciating the issue of player safety and of player willingness and co-operation by prioritising your one sided points regarding legal and financial issues above them.

[chaddyrovers]

35 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

My stance is very much that health should come before legal issues. But you dont seem to be able to grasp that there will be legal consequences NO MATTER HOW THE SEASON IS FINISHED/NOT FINISHED. Brighton are a good example, say they finish the season behind closed doors, and Brighton go down, they have more "home" games left and have publically stated that they feel that "sporting integrity" will have been compromised.

Both finishing the season and not finishing the season will bring with it teams that feel cheated, legal proceedings and sporting integrity compromised, so such matters shouldnt be considered.

Is it necessarily fair to put teams in Europe based on last season? No. But it is it fair to have teams promoted based on their season so far, which is not completed from League 1? Again, no.

BOTH null and voiding AND finishing the season has a series of negative consequences, potential legal issues and neither maintain sporting integrity. To use that as a reason either way is not a credible reason.

Your last paragraph makes little sense. Surely if it goes well in Germany, it can work in Italy? Even though 3 players in the same team have the virus!

I personally believe that your understandable desperation to watch some football is making you only see issues in the prospect of nulling and voiding the season, even when there are very similar issues that are thrown up if you do complete the season behind closed doors. And you are under-appreciating the issue of player safety and of player willingness and co-operation by prioritising your one sided points regarding legal and financial issues above them.

I haven't said that Health should come before legal issues tho. I have always maintain that Health should come 1st. 

Brighton and the other 19 teams are meeting on Monday and we see what comes out of that meeting. We see what happens after that. If the PL and Championship seasons finishing I don't see clubs taking any legal actions cos the season will have finish. 

The clubs in League 1 and league 2 will discuss this on Wednesday the EFL board meeting but several clubs from those leagues will struggle for the financial burden. Here is Co owner of Salford City Gary Neville on this morning Sky Sports The Football Show saying that it is 99% sure they wont be any football in league 1 and 2. Plus half the players from league 1 and 2 clubs are out of contract. 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/29326/11985102/league-one-and-league-two-season-return-extremely-unlikely-says-gary-neville

You cant teams like Arsenal or Spurs into Europe when they aren't in the top 6 or 7. Leicester, Sheff Utd and Wolves are in the top 7. 

You don't know the circumstances of the 3 players at the Italian club got the virus. German clubs have return to work and have systems and procedures in place. Lets see what the PL and EFL come up with next week.

Most people who are football or sports fans are wanting some sort of sport back in some capacity when it no crowd attending. The PL and government have held talks yesterday and we will what the outcome is on Monday/Tuesday next week.

No I am not under appreciating the issue of player safety at all. I have family and friends who are health and social care workers so I am fully aware. 

 

 

 

[roversfan99]

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I haven't said that Health should come before legal issues tho. I have always maintain that Health should come 1st. 

Brighton and the other 19 teams are meeting on Monday and we see what comes out of that meeting. We see what happens after that. If the PL and Championship seasons finishing I don't see clubs taking any legal actions cos the season will have finish. 

The clubs in League 1 and league 2 will discuss this on Wednesday the EFL board meeting but several clubs from those leagues will struggle for the financial burden. Here is Co owner of Salford City Gary Neville on this morning Sky Sports The Football Show saying that it is 99% sure they wont be any football in league 1 and 2. Plus half the players from league 1 and 2 clubs are out of contract. 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/29326/11985102/league-one-and-league-two-season-return-extremely-unlikely-says-gary-neville

You cant teams like Arsenal or Spurs into Europe when they aren't in the top 6 or 7. Leicester, Sheff Utd and Wolves are in the top 7. 

You don't know the circumstances of the 3 players at the Italian club got the virus. German clubs have return to work and have systems and procedures in place. Lets see what the PL and EFL come up with next week.

Most people who are football or sports fans are wanting some sort of sport back in some capacity when it no crowd attending. The PL and government have held talks yesterday and we will what the outcome is on Monday/Tuesday next week.

No I am not under appreciating the issue of player safety at all. I have family and friends who are health and social care workers so I am fully aware. 

 

 

 

Again potential legal issues are not the primary concern but the teams that go down or that dont get promoted will im sure suggest that it wasnt fair and that the integrity wasnt maintained playing behind closed doors at neutral stadiums and likewise the teams in 4th 5th and 6th in League 1 who are not promoted even though they occupied play off places and were in just as good as position as 3rd will I am sure issue legal proceedings. To think that finishing the season (well just the 2 top leagues) will remove any legal implications is naive and foolish. Playing behind closed doors especially if any players are unable to play due to having the virus or are unwilling to play will cause problems. NEITHER DECISION WILL BE TOTALLY FAIR!

Another potential legal issue. You get more than the usual 3 subs. What happens if a 4th sub comes on and scores a winner? Is that fair?

In your head, if the men in suits decide that the football will go ahead then it is all good to go no questions asked. With the potential for players to test positive and be unavailable or simply refuse to play that isnt the case. You keep using the words systems and procedures as if that is all that is needed, and as if they will 100% eliminate the risk within a contact sport and also ensure that everyone will be willing to play.

This line about boosting the nations morale is a load of bollocks too. Footballers are not robots exempt from the virus or able to be wheeled out at the governments request to risk themselves and their families without having their own say.

Edited May 8, 2020 by roversfan99

[chaddyrovers]

22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Again potential legal issues are not the primary concern but the teams that go down or that dont get promoted will im sure suggest that it wasnt fair and that the integrity wasnt maintained playing behind closed doors at neutral stadiums and likewise the teams in 4th 5th and 6th in League 1 who are not promoted even though they occupied play off places and were in just as good as position as 3rd will I am sure issue legal proceedings. To think that finishing the season (well just the 2 top leagues) will remove any legal implications is naive and foolish. Playing behind closed doors especially if any players are unable to play due to having the virus or are unwilling to play will cause problems. NEITHER DECISION WILL BE TOTALLY FAIR!

Another potential legal issue. You get more than the usual 3 subs. What happens if a 4th sub comes on and scores a winner? Is that fair?

In your head, if the men in suits decide that the football will go ahead then it is all good to go no questions asked. With the potential for players to test positive and be unavailable or simply refuse to play that isnt the case. You keep using the words systems and procedures as if that is all that is needed, and as if they will 100% eliminate the risk within a contact sport and also ensure that everyone will be willing to play.

This line about boosting the nations morale is a load of bollocks too. Footballers are not robots exempt from the virus or able to be wheeled out at the governments request to risk themselves and their families without having their own say.

Who says they will use more than 3 subs? Wasn't that idea Gordon Taylor? 

If they agree to play in Neutral stadiums before the season starts then no club can complain as this was agree to before the restart of the Premier League. That's why there is a meeting Monday and to discuss these issues. 

If League 1 and 2 clubs cant afford to restart the season as Gary Neville who would know since he is a co owner of league 2 club would know this info. That's why there is a EFL meeting on Wednesday for league 1 and 2 clubs to discuss these issues. If they decide in that meeting to end the season and not restarted then they cant be any legal challenges. You clearly didn't read or watch Gary Neville comments on the link I provided. 

No Roversfan99, The suits within the PL and EFL are discussing the issues with each chairman/owner. That's the point I am making. No aren't accepting that's these meetings haven't happened yet. 

You don't know what all the players think. Have you seen Ben Mee's comment today that players can deal with neutral venues and to be quarantine  https://moandsports.com/2020/05/08/burnleys-ben-mee-says-players-can-deal-with-neutral-venues-and-quarantine/

Well Lets see how the German model works and before judging it. Have you ever look into that?

have I ever said that the systems and Procedures will eliminate the 100% risk but Lets look at what German football is doing and lets see if it works here. 

Never said anything about the nation morale in the post you reply to but I said that most people who are football or other sports fans want sport back in some sort of capacity.  

 

 

[Hasta]

How can the Champions League and Europa league go ahead as normal next season anyway. Even if the premier league finished the season, there would be many other leagues around Europe that wouldn't. How would the early qualifiers be able to take place in July? They wouldn't. Therefore the competition will be being changed from its usual format regardless of what the PL do.

There's no easy solution. There will be legal cases regardless of what the outcome is, if the clubs can afford them.

Wierdly, I don't really care if the season is played behind closed doors or not. I normally watch loads of football, but I don't have any real appetite for behind closed doors games at the moment.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Hasta

[roversfan99]

Another issue of potentially losing fairness and sporting integrity is a potential lack of VAR. If a decision goes against someone that would have been amended and corrected by VAR it is not fair. You cant have it for part but not all of a season.

[Stuart]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Another issue of potentially losing fairness and sporting integrity is a potential lack of VAR. If a decision goes against someone that would have been amended and corrected by VAR it is not fair. You cant have it for part but not all of a season.

They had it for FA Cup games and then not for the replay; for some games and not others; some team’s decisions referred, others ignored. There is nothing fair about how VAR has been applied so far.

VAR should be applied consistently but it certainly hasn’t been so far. Actually that’s not right, VAR should be abandoned along with the 2019/20 season.

[tomphil]

Who's suing who ?  I think there might be plenty players/managers/clubs who feel forced to play returning the favour on these potentially suing if it gets null and void.

Its a minefield either way they'd be better selecting the captains of each team and playing games out live on an xbox or something !

[Mattyblue]

In today’s Times. With us 3 points outside, that play offs plan would make the no-show at Derby stick in the craw somewhat...

Edited May 9, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Stuart]

11 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Who's suing who ?  I think there might be plenty players/managers/clubs who feel forced to play returning the favour on these potentially suing if it gets null and void.

Its a minefield either way they'd be better selecting the captains of each team and playing games out live on an xbox or something !

Bundesliga breaking ranks has caused a problem. Lawyers will now cite that as reasonable approach for a top European league.

Leeds and West Brom will have cases.

If the situation in the UK (England) is supposedly the worst in Europe (and I’m still not convinced that the measurements across each country are the same - especially when ‘suspected cases’ are being included) it could be argued that the German precedent can’t be applied in England.

A lot depends on when a normal (supporter attended) season could resume. If zero percent risk is the tide mark then the answer is never but with some mitigation planning, let’s say September. The season should be scrapped and restarted again as at the start of the season. You could argue whether some weighting could be applied, similar to a points deduction but that would be the cleanest.

If it was next year some time then behind closed doors becomes a serious consideration. In that case I’d say finish this season first over the Summer. Worry about next season, such as fewer matches, after that when legal issues wouldn’t be a factor.

[Stuart]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

In today’s Times. With us 3 points outside that play offs plan would make that no-show at Derby stick in the craw somewhat...

I don’t see how they can go with a hybrid approach. Will there be play-offs for who is relegated? PPG is such an inaccurate measure because each game isn’t even (even with the home and away factoring). One team could have a decent run of fixtures having got some tough ones out of the way and surge into the play-offs or surge to safety.

Looks like selective outcomes to placate lawyers for those teams wanting promotion. Not unexpected from the spineless EFL. I guess they only need votes from midtable safe teams looking to cut costs and those with a stake in getting it finished due to the top 3 situation. It’s an utter nonsense.

I definitely want a refund under this scenario. And not just because Mowbray bottled it at Derby! Can you imagine if Preston went up because of this?

[tomphil]

Maybe start next season as usual whether behind closed doors or not with teams on the points and standings as they are now. A 'long season' if you like. Be crazy points totals but it can't be argued everyone doesn't have a fair chance again of sealing their fates.

Might actually be the fairest solution, the 2019/2021 season !

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

 

A lot depends on when a normal (supporter attended) season could resume. If zero percent risk is the tide mark then the answer is never but with some mitigation planning, let’s say September. The season should be scrapped and restarted again as at the start of the season. You could argue whether some weighting could be applied, similar to a points deduction but that would be the cleanest.

If it was next year some time then behind closed doors becomes a serious consideration. In that case I’d say finish this season first over the Summer. Worry about next season, such as fewer matches, after that when legal issues wouldn’t be a factor.

I dont see any supporters being allow in stadiums until after Christmas. Wont be September. 

Are you saying null and void this season and start a new season in September? 

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

I definitely want a refund under this scenario. 

You clearly havent seen Waggott's comments from yesterday?.

Looking like a discount on next year season ticket

[Stuart]

32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I dont see any supporters being allow in stadiums until after Christmas. Wont be September. 

Are you saying null and void this season and start a new season in September? 

You clearly havent seen Waggott's comments from yesterday?.

Looking like a discount on next year season ticket

You are right I haven’t.

But in your first reply you’ve already suggested that there won’t be much to next season to put a discount on. And I’m inclined to agree, September start was best case and assumes people wearing masks.

Ironically, we have the size of stadium to offer plenty of spacing between seats. Just people passing each other but I’m reading more and more that to catch it you need to be in an enclosed space, in close proximity to others for 10 minutes or more. Difficult to know what to believe at the minute.

[rigger]

9 minutes ago, Stuart said:

You are right I haven’t.

But in your first reply you’ve already suggested that there won’t be much to next season to put a discount on. And I’m inclined to agree, September start was best case and assumes people wearing masks.

Ironically, we have the size of stadium to offer plenty of spacing between seats. Just people passing each other but I’m reading more and more that to catch it you need to be in an enclosed space, in close proximity to others for 10 minutes or more. Difficult to know what to believe at the minute.

Yippee, I can have sex, and still not catch it.

[arbitro]

54 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I dont see any supporters being allow in stadiums until after Christmas. Wont be September. 

Are you saying null and void this season and start a new season in September? 

You clearly havent seen Waggott's comments from yesterday?.

Looking like a discount on next year season ticket

I agree about not being allowed in until next year but in light of Waggott's comments about the possibility of some from of reimbursement hypothetically it leaves the club in a very difficult situation. Assuming we have played nine or ten home games by then and current season ticket holders are discounted for the four missing games it effectively means we will have to pay for only nine or ten games. And factor in if we aren't doing reasonably well and there is still an element of fear some just won't bother. Assuming we don't pay for them until the turn of the year that is pretty much no income for nine months. I can't see too much income commercially neither.

Something will have to give.

[Cherry Blue]

40 minutes ago, Stuart said:

You are right I haven’t.

But in your first reply you’ve already suggested that there won’t be much to next season to put a discount on. And I’m inclined to agree, September start was best case and assumes people wearing masks.

Ironically, we have the size of stadium to offer plenty of spacing between seats. Just people passing each other but I’m reading more and more that to catch it you need to be in an enclosed space, in close proximity to others for 10 minutes or more. Difficult to know what to believe at the minute.

Would imagine that seating plans plus entrance and exist rules could be drawn up. Riverside looks good and if they closed the bars a straight walkway for lower Blackburn End and Darwen End. But even if this was do-able there are a shed load of other rules to consider plus people confidence is a big factor.

[roversfan99]

With a new season you have essentially a blank canvas and a level playing field. Aswell as this there is also the potential for consistency in terms of not just completing certain leagues, and of course in terms of advantages regarding fixtures etc, they havent even been drawn yet. The main driving force behind what course of action is best to take in terms of the 19/20 season will not be player welfare, health and safety or even the fairest way, it will be the way that benefits each individual club in terms of their current position. If a team is 24th, they would want to null and void the season. Take Liverpool, Leeds or West Brom, they would surely want to finish the season or even award it on PPG or similar. The team third in League 1 would certainly be happy with the proposal to only finish the Premiership and Championship, whereas 4th, 5th and 6th would be dead against it.

There is also the additional issue of time in terms of trying to complete the 19/20 season quickly considering we would have had our last game at Luton last Sunday. And obviously the fact that next season can allow a couple of months to constantly monitor the situation without the same time pressure. It may well be that the whole of next season has to be behind closed doors to maintain integrity, but surely there would also be more scope for an agreement in terms of a willingness to open the doors to stadiums as soon as is possible in terms of health and safety PRIOR to fixtures being arranged.

There are also various other issues that may cause further unfairness and lack of integrity that have been suggested or may be compromised, potential for VAR to be impossible, potential need for extra subs etc.

[arbitro]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/09/premier-league-footballers-receive-coronavirus-test-results-quicker-key-workers-12677023/

The PL are paying a reported £4m for testing of players and staff and are expected to get the results back within 24 hours. The frontline NHS staff and care workers are having to wait longer according to the article.

If this is true it's another reason to dislike football.

[Rogerb]

4 minutes ago, arbitro said:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/09/premier-league-footballers-receive-coronavirus-test-results-quicker-key-workers-12677023/

The PL are paying a reported £4m for testing of players and staff and are expected to get the results back within 24 hours. The frontline NHS staff and care workers are having to wait longer according to the article.

If this is true it's another reason to dislike football.

Queue jumping at it's finest with the side effect of putting nhs staff and care workers further down the list of receiving results

[Mattyblue]

I get the ‘need’ to get football back for ‘sporting integrity’ reasons, a definitive answer to promotion/relegation/CL places etc.

But is anyone (Chaddy aside) actually missing watching the Premier League?

[MarkBRFC]

Definitely not.

I'm not really missing football in general at the moment to be honest.