Football League Suspended

[Hasta]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It doesnt have to be as black and white as that. The numbers are still far too high to risk finishing THIS season, and besides, the clubs most at risk would be clubs further down the pyramid where the Leagues will not resume anyway. The debate is about finishing this season, with bollocks like points per game brought in making things all inconsistent and various things affecting the scepticism anyway. But ultimately, the only priority is health and there are still too many deaths each day to justify rushing through the season. Null and void, then start from 20/21.

Rather than rush through a quarter of a season whilst the numbers of deaths are still so high and the risk is still so high. Wait a couple of months when hopefully the numbers will have come down significantly. Where players are potentially going to be much less afraid. (Todd Cantwell, Sergio Aguero, Tyrone Mings and Danny Rose have all publically expressed doubts recently) With Premier League players (as well as Bundesliga 2, Serie A and La Liga players which for me all should also not finish their season) its just not feasible unless money is more important than health.

Logistically, the side of it like legalities and financial which are far secondary to health and safety, it also is much easier. Teams dont have a conflict of interest in terms of their current league positions, its a level playing field. 

Plain and simple, health before business. That is clearly not a motto you abide by. 

Aside from the inevitable legal challenges from Leeds / West Brom and any champions league issues (can that even go ahead with the usual qualifiers in August anyway?) , this does appear the most sensible way forward. 

Although if it's not really safe in June, it won't be safe it August. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Hasta

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, Hasta said:

Aside from the inevitable legal challenges from Leeds / West Brom and any champions league issues (can that even go ahead with the usual qualifiers n August anyway?) , this does appear the most sensible way forward. 

Have you seen FA chairman Greg Clarke's comments that they will be relegation from PL and promotion from Championship this season after some clubs try to make sure relegation was off the table? 

He made this clear to the PL clubs Chairmans. FA have the overall say on this

 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

But if you actually read my posts on this I've asked for a plan forward. Did you just ignore my post on this? 

Here the post

But like I said early the German FA and government have said games will go ahead this week..let's see how it goes 1st whilst both PL and EFL continue talks between them and try to come up with a plan forward whatever that is. When they restart June or end of July or end now and focus on next season. I'm asking for a plan forward. That's main point whilst trying to protect all 92 clubs the best way we can. And if we arent continue the season full stop then how do we move forward when players will want paying when clubs dont have money to paid. Are players going to take a massive paycut for this period of time whilst there is no live football? 

Yet again you have ignore an important point by FA Chairman Greg Clarke that they will be relegation from the PL and promotion from the Championship.even if the season doesn't start up again. The FA have overall say on this. So the season wont be null and void now. Do you now accept this? 

Clubs in the lower league matter just as much the PL clubs in terms of surviving this crisis.

No one is saying that Health and Safety isnt important tho what I and others are after is a plan forward? Do you now accept this point? 

I havent said put business before health tho so please dont post this lies cos it's simple untrue.

Are players going to pay cuts if we dont play for long period of time? 

 

 

If you are putting a desire to have promotions and relegations, an ill thought out desire to protect the future of football clubs or even the again flawed logic to prevent legal issues, then subconciously you are not putting health and safety first.

Why does their HAVE to be promotion and relegation? There doesnt, end of. Is that ideal? Obviously not. Is it fair? No, but no way possible to complete a season is going to be fair now, thats something you are not grasping. 

I am not 100% sure if null and void is a possibility. Firstly, I am sure that the relevant men in suits will try desperately to cobble something together even if it is putting peoples health at risk and a heavily flawed and thus system. But with the potential of players testing positive or nor fully co-operating with the proposals, just because the men in suits want it financially, I am skeptical about how smoothly it will go.

Lower league clubs are important yes. But my point is that it seems only the Premier League and maybe Championship will be potentially tried to complete anyway so the current proposals do not make a difference to the futures of lower league clubs so your point on that is illogical.

Theres only one question that needs asking. Is the current death toll low enough to consider rushing through the season with time already of the essence? The answer is definitely not. All of your quite frankly flawed, illogical and ignorant points about financial and legal issues are irrelevant once you get a no on that.

[Hasta]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Have you seen FA chairman Greg Clarke's comments that they will be relegation from PL and promotion from Championship this season after some clubs try to make sure relegation was off the table? 

He made this clear to the PL clubs Chairmans. FA have the overall say on this

 

And if the majority of clubs disagreed with him and refused to play it could be interesting! 

As I said earlier, I think the FA and clubs will make finishing the season happen somehow, whether it's safe, fair or not,  just to keep the money wheel turning.

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Hasta

[only2garners]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Has anyone said why that is yet? Is it a genetic predisposition?

I thought it was because of the proportion of BAME people in jobs were the virus was most prevalent.

Would BAME footballers really be any more susceptible than their white (is that the right word?) counterparts?

BAME people are actually dying at about 4 times their share of the population, but taking into account they are over represented in caring jobs and that they are poorer than the average the adjusted rate is about twice the average. As yet no one knows why, so if I were a BAME footballer I would be very concerned about playing any time soon.

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Aside from the inevitable legal challenges from Leeds / West Brom and any champions league issues (can that even go ahead in August anyway?) , this does appear the most sensible way forward. 

The thing is though, there will be legal issues regardless of what happens. An equal number of teams will miss out on promotions and be relegated. Even if legalities were an important priority to the decision makers, which it cant be with health involved, then its a flawed reason anyway.

You make a good point about the Champions League. It makes sense to skip a season of European competition barring a drastic and quite frankly unrealistic drop right across Europe. That then ties in nicely with the problem with not finishing the season in terms of continental competition.

[chaddyrovers]

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why does their HAVE to be promotion and relegation? There doesnt, end of. Is that ideal? Obviously not. Is it fair? No, but no way possible to complete a season is going to be fair now, thats something you are not grasping. 

I am not 100% sure if null and void is a possibility. Firstly, I am sure that the relevant men in suits will try desperately to cobble something together even if it is putting peoples health at risk and a heavily flawed and thus system. But with the potential of players testing positive or nor fully co-operating with the proposals, just because the men in suits want it financially, I am skeptical about how smoothly it will go.

Did you even read Greg Clarke's comments on relegation and Promotion will happen and the season wont be null and void? 

You havent read any of post properly again. No where have I said put health and Safety not 1st. And I will repeat again, I am looking for a plan going forward whatever that plan is. Whether its restart the season next month, July or end it now and work out places base on Points per game. Did you understand my main point now? 

But you say men in suits want this to happen cos financially but the players still expecting to be paid even if we dont restart? Are they willing to massive pay cuts for months? 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, Hasta said:

And if the majority of clubs disagreed with him and refused to play it could be interesting! 

As I said earlier, I think the FA and clubs will make finishing the season happen somehow, whether it's safe, fair or not,  just to keep the money wheel turning.

 

The FA have overall say over the promotion and relegation spots. It's their decision. Part of a deal when the Premier League was created in 1991. So that's the rules between the PL, EFL and FL. so whether that can be legally challenge in court I dont know. 

I expect a restart at some point by PL and Championship clubs. 

PL will test players twice and independently from reports. And taking.no tests away from NHS and government. 

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Did you even read Greg Clarke's comments on relegation and Promotion will happen and the season wont be null and void? 

You havent read any of post properly again. No where have I said put health and Safety not 1st. And I will repeat again, I am looking for a plan going forward whatever that plan is. Whether its restart the season next month, July or end it now and work out places base on Points per game. Did you understand my main point now? 

But you say men in suits want this to happen cos financially but the players still expecting to be paid even if we dont restart? Are they will to massive pay cuts for months? 

 

 

None of your reasons are good enough to prompt a season being rushed through.

Couldnt give a shite what Greg Clarke has said to be honest, I just know that there is no way that considering that (weekend lag affects weekend figures) that there were consistently 500-700 deaths a day last week, that football should be being played. End of. Players are publically coming out and saying as such too. Each time a player gets a positive reading a huge spanner is put in the works. Even if the League or teams pay for the testing themselves, to get games on, other vital resources will be used. 

Its not going to be fair whatever happens, there will be legal consequences whatever happens, and the clubs from League 1 below are totaly unaffected by the decision anyway, ie the most vulnerable because their season re-start isnt under consideration.

All your hot air about player wages, that can be discussed, but it is NOT AS IMPORTANT AS HEALTH.

If you also saw 500-700 daily deaths as good enough reason to not be able to play football in the next month or 2. And it was points per game v null and void and the former was deemed fairer, that would be absolutely crazy.

I think you are just desperate to see football that you cannot look past the main fact staring in front of you.

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

None of your reasons are good enough to prompt a season being rushed through.

Couldnt give a shite what Greg Clarke has said to be honest, I just know that there is no way that considering that (weekend lag affects weekend figures) that there were consistently 500-700 deaths a day last week, that football should be being played. End of. Players are publically coming out and saying as such too. Each time a player gets a positive reading a huge spanner is put in the works. Even if the League or teams pay for the testing themselves, to get games on, other vital resources will be used. 

Its not going to be fair whatever happens, there will be legal consequences whatever happens, and the clubs from League 1 below are totaly unaffected by the decision anyway, ie the most vulnerable because their season re-start isnt under consideration.

All your hot air about player wages, that can be discussed, but it is NOT AS IMPORTANT AS HEALTH.

If you also saw 500-700 daily deaths as good enough reason to not be able to play football in the next month or 2. And it was points per game v null and void and the former was deemed fairer, that would be absolutely crazy.

I think you are just desperate to see football that you cannot look past the main fact staring in front of you.

Yet again you arent reading my points again!

So I giving up with you cos you dont read my points. You just make lies up and make points up I havent said.  

[Mattyblue]

Clark at the FA is not demanding football to be played, just relegation and promotion to be enforced - i.e you can cancel the season on an average points basis.

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, only2garners said:

BAME people are actually dying at about 4 times their share of the population, but taking into account they are over represented in caring jobs and that they are poorer than the average the adjusted rate is about twice the average. As yet no one knows why, so if I were a BAME footballer I would be very concerned about playing any time soon.

I find it very hard to reconcile that a BAME footballer is in anyway similar to a BAME care worker in terms of health condition and access to medical care. It sounds like you are suggesting that there is a specific and inherent genetic issue. If so, then surely all BAME workers should be classed as vulnerable and shielded for the 12 week period that was enforced while more studies are carried out.

However, separate from the race angle that the media are pushing, what about any player with asthma or an undiagnosed heart defect. They should also be extremely concerned.

The bottom line is what happens when someone dies because their place of work did not take reasonable measures to offer social distancing protection? Including footballers.

[Stuart]

46 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Clark at the FA is not demanding football to be played, just relegation and promotion to be enforced - i.e you can cancel the season on an average points basis.

There is absolutely no need for there to be any promotion or relegation. If nobody knows when next season will start - or even if next season will start - then it’s hardly a priority.

Any solution will impact some clubs more than others but what is more fair, that one team are relegated despite not being able to complete the season or that another isn’t promoted. The outcome (Championship football) is the same for each. Who decides who is more important? Can they be cleared of any bias or looking at it without the commercial implications being a factor. The PL will have to pay large sums of money to whichever team loses out on the  arbitrary mathematics used. A complete void season would not be unreasonable, and would be more difficult to pin on any institution.

Hopefully all of the current discussions are perhaps just a way to be able to say, when it all fails and void is inevitable, that “we did all we could” - and not in a Waggott way!

PPG is not a fair conclusion imho as it takes no account of the opposition. They should look at the previous records between clubs and apply a weighting based on home records but it then all becomes very complicated indeed.

[Mattyblue]

Oh I agree, just void it now and try and salvage as much as next season as possible.

However, the FA are trying to flex their political muscles in this tawdry spectacle and are referring to the 1991 articles of association that guarantees promotion and relegation - though I doubt there was a pandemic asterisk in said document...

Edited May 12, 2020 by Mattyblue

[had.e.nuff]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Clark at the FA is not demanding football to be played, just relegation and promotion to be enforced - i.e you can cancel the season on an average points basis.

i think villa might have something to say about points per game as they have a game in hand

[rigger]

11 hours ago, Stuart said:

Has anyone said why that is yet? Is it a genetic predisposition?

I thought it was because of the proportion of BAME people in jobs were the virus was most prevalent.

Would BAME footballers really be any more susceptible than their white (is that the right word?) counterparts?

Caucasian

[had.e.nuff]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Oh I agree, just void it now and try and salvage as much as next season as possible.

However, the FA are trying to flex their political muscles in this tawdry spectacle and are referring to the 1991 articles of association that guarantees promotion and relegation - though I doubt there was a pandemic asterisk in said document...

doubt there is a clause for incompleted seasons or void seasons so would be hard to enforce and the premier league can do what they want has as been proved before they would just threaten a breakaway .

[rigger]

10 hours ago, Amo said:

Has anyone really missed football that much?

If anything, this pandemic has put into perspective how pointless multi-billion sports industries really are.

I’ve missed going to the Rovers

[K-Hod]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yet again you arent reading my points again!

So I giving up with you cos you dont read my points. You just make lies up and make points up I havent said.  

Likewise, you aren’t reading what anyone else is saying. But allow me to simplify-

Health>football. 
I love football, but it can bloody well wait!

[rigger]

In my view it could be a few years before a tried and tested vaccine is found ( remember Thalidomlde )

by then most people would probably be immune so would there be a big uptake of people wanting to take the vaccine. This being the case a different target for allowing spectators back would have to be found.

[chaddyrovers]

29 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Likewise, you aren’t reading what anyone else is saying. But allow me to simplify-

Health>football. 
I love football, but it can bloody well wait!

And nowhere have I said football should be put before health. All I asking for is plan going forward. That's it A Plan. Whether it start in mid June or July or even ending the season and starting a new season in September. 

 

45 minutes ago, had.e.nuff said:

doubt there is a clause for incompleted seasons or void seasons so would be hard to enforce and the premier league can do what they want has as been proved before they would just threaten a breakaway .

Breakaway to where? 

The PL and FA have an agreement in place. Time to hounor it

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

There is absolutely no need for there to be any promotion or relegation. If nobody knows when next season will start - or even if next season will start - then it’s hardly a priority 

It's good to see our FA actually have some falls to tell PL clubs straight that they will be relegation and promotion this season and will not be null and void season either. 

[arbitro]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

And nowhere have I said football should be put before health. All I asking for is plan going forward. That's it A Plan. Whether it start in mid June or July or even ending the season and starting a new season in September. 

 

Breakaway to where? 

The PL and FA have an agreement in place. Time to hounor it

It's good to see our FA actually have some falls to tell PL clubs straight that they will be relegation and promotion this season and will not be null and void season either. 

And the same FA have declared steps 3 to 6 null and void with no promotion or relegation. The FA will be powerless in a battle with the PL. Remember when the PL was formed as the FA Premier League? The FA bit was dropped not long after because they offered nothing. 

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/seasons-voided-at-steps-3-to-6-of-non-league/

[perthblue02]

11 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Have you seen FA chairman Greg Clarke's comments that they will be relegation from PL and promotion from Championship this season after some clubs try to make sure relegation was off the table? 

He made this clear to the PL clubs Chairmans. FA have the overall say on this

 

The FA will do what they usually do. The Premier League will flash a fiver and the FA will get out the lube and bend over.

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, arbitro said:

And the same FA have declared steps 3 to 6 null and void with no promotion or relegation. The FA will be powerless in a battle with the PL. Remember when the PL was formed as the FA Premier League? The FA bit was dropped not long after because they offered nothing. 

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/seasons-voided-at-steps-3-to-6-of-non-league/

That's non league football. 

Greg Clarke's comments to the PL chairmans was clear as day to them. Why are disputing them I dont know. 

The PL and FA agree on the FA having power on relegation and promotion when the PL was formed. 

I was only 6 years old when the FA Premier league was formed. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, perthblue02 said:

The FA will do what they usually do. The Premier League will flash a fiver and the FA will get out the lube and bend over.

His comments was clear. The FA have the overall decision. Given to them by PL in 1991