Football League Suspended

[Paul]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not sure where your anxiety is coming from really Paul, rightly or wrongly I fear it will be a very long time before fans are allowed back in grounds under conditions we used to consider "normal".

I'm not anxious RB. I'm very unlikely to return until fan safety is at the top of the list. Until then all the debate for me is irrelevant as without fans the game is nothing.

The longer the debate goes on about playing behind closed doors, TV monies etc. the more I lose interest. I already knew the clubs have no interest in fans. The current debate simply confirms it - again. The safety of fans needs to be at the top of the agenda because as it stands many will walk away.

Have you seen the pictures of German fans sitting in chairs in a hall watching a big screen? It's a joke.

[K-Hod]

11 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

We have to get back to way of some sort of new Normal way of life. It was unprecedent and unexpected situation but you just have to get on with the rest of the season that the best way they can. 

But we need to finish this season 1st. Germany, Spain, Italy, Austria are all finishing their current season, So why shouldn't we. 

I don't think restarting the season will lose any of it Integrity at all. Its you who think it will not me. 

If you know that Promotion and relegation will happen why keep going on and on about when you know it is happening?

 

You just keep paraphrasing what others have said, instead of saying what you think.

Just because the league have said it has to, doesn’t mean it has to. Leagues have gone null and void in other European countries, so to be fair, we could also just do the same. 
Whenever I read about ‘integrity’ in relation to football, it just reads as ‘money’ in reality. 

 

[Mattyblue]

7 hours ago, Paul said:

 

The longer the debate goes on about playing behind closed doors, TV monies etc. the more I lose interest. I already knew the clubs have no interest in fans. The current debate simply confirms it - again. The safety of fans needs to be at the top of the agenda because as it stands many will walk away.

 

And this is exactly why English football is in big trouble. A year + out of the ground and ‘Paul’s’ across the country, fans with decades of attending their club’s games, fans who have usually renewed their STs as a force of habit, realise that they don’t particularly miss it, then the sport in this country is over as we know it. Floating fans obviously float in and out, but you lose your core support and it’s game over.

Which in someways will lead the sport to a well overdue coming to collective senses, but could also lead to a huge number of clubs folding and our unique pyramid will be finished.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, K-Hod said:

You just keep paraphrasing what others have said, instead of saying what you think.

Just because the league have said it has to, doesn’t mean it has to. Leagues have gone null and void in other European countries, so to be fair, we could also just do the same. 
Whenever I read about ‘integrity’ in relation to football, it just reads as ‘money’ in reality. 

 

And other leagues are getting training and players like German, Italian, Austrian and Spanish clubs are. 

Football has always been money tho. Football clubs and all sports teams/clubs are businesses at the end of the day. They need money to survive

[Mattyblue]

Football has never been this reliant on TV money.

If this would’ve happened 30 years ago the season would have long been postponed. This farce is only carrying on because the game is now totally in hock to television money, vast amounts of cash that goes straight back out of the game and into the pockets of players and agents. What should be the strongest, richest sport in the world is entirely built on sand.

[Vinjay]

39 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Football has never been this reliant on TV money.

If this would’ve happened 30 years ago the season would have long been postponed. This farce is only carrying on because the game is now totally in hock to television money, vast amounts of cash that goes straight back out of the game and into the pockets of players and agents. What should be the strongest, richest sport in the world is entirely built on sand.

...and the disparity in Tv money shows what a load of unworkable nonsense FUP is. 

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Football has never been this reliant on TV money.

If this would’ve happened 30 years ago the season would have long been postponed. This farce is only carrying on because the game is now totally in hock to television money, vast amounts of cash that goes straight back out of the game and into the pockets of players and agents. What should be the strongest, richest sport in the world is entirely built on sand.

Exactly. L1 and L2 have already been canned on this exact basis.

The money at the top level has become an albatross around the necks of ✌?Big Clubs✌?which means their years of living above their very lofty means might be about to bite.

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

And other leagues are getting training and players like German, Italian, Austrian and Spanish clubs are. 

Football has always been money tho. Football clubs and all sports teams/clubs are businesses at the end of the day. They need money to survive

Then clubs need to make cutbacks, just like everyone else has had to.

[JHRover]

It's quite clear to me that the reason there is the desperation to get Premier League and Championship football back on asap in some form or another is down to the TV companies and the cash they stand to make/lose from this pandemic.

At the moment they have a captive audience of a football starved population sat at home bored in front of the TV all night and weekend. Sky and BT will have seen their viewing figures plummet over the last couple of months and if it continues much longer i suspect many will be questioning whether to cancel their subscriptions. There's only so many repeats and inane Gary Neville discussions people can listen to before having enough. 

They will be salivating at the prospect of the entire UK population and beyond being confined to their houses for days on end infront of their TVs with wall to wall Premier League coverage every day. Think of the new subscriptions, advertisements and viewing figures.

Of course if Sky and BT lose their business that will end up being passed on to the clubs who rely on it. Shouldn't be a problem given the amounts of cash paid out over the last 20 years but it seems nearly all of it has been spent on obscene wages and transfer fees.

I do find it quite ironic. After years of criticising the Venky 'model' of being dependent on their input to underwrite massive losses every year whilst they pile millions onto the debt whilst Burnley have been celebrated as a model of what to follow. Now we are continuing to rely on Venkys managing these costs from their business and cash reserves, entirely separate to football in the UK, whilst Burnley are over the barrel of being dependent on expected income from Sky etc, which may not materialize and may send clubs depending on it to the wall. 

No discussion of such things in the local paper though, who are quick to mention Venky's troubles in India but still haven't carried out any analysis into Burnley's financial state if football doesn't return soon.

The EFL and prized cow Championship will follow suit because they have started to go the same way as the Premier League with the ownership and money sloshing around and Sky will be eager to ensure that season is played out to a conclusion.

The potential legal ramifications of not doing are severe. Only yesterday i was reading that Barnsley are contemplating legal action if they are demoted at this point and Derby/Sheffield Wednesday survive after both have been found guilty of cheating and haven't been punished (yet). What a mess it could lead to. Partly self-inflicted of course because if the EFL had thrown the book at those clubs months ago it would have been dealt with before the pandemic came along. 

Personally speaking I've missed it less than i thought i would do. Though subconsciously i am probably still in the mindframe of it being the summer break and it won't really hit home until September when the weather turns and there's nothing to do at the weekend. 

I notice that some clubs such as Everton and Man Utd have already started offering refunds to supporters for games that have been missed and i wonder how long it will be before Rovers address such things. I'm not desperate to get my £60+ or whatever it is back but i will be asking questions before deciding whether to do so.

[Hasta]

15 hours ago, Stuart said:

I know you don’t want to hear it but it’s basic maths. We will have to agree to disagree because we are looking at it from different ends of the telescope.

I don't quite understand what is basic maths about it based on the points I made, but we will leave it.

We may disagree on whether Premier League testing takes stock that would otherwise be used from the NHS, but I'm not sure we are looking at the 'bigger picture' from opposite ends of the telescope. I think we both agree with Paul's excellent post above, and as I have said numerous time I have no interest in it returning as a non-spectator sport in the immediate future.

[Stuart]

54 minutes ago, Hasta said:

I don't quite understand what is basic maths about it based on the points I made, but we will leave it.

We may disagree on whether Premier League testing takes stock that would otherwise be used from the NHS, but I'm not sure we are looking at the 'bigger picture' from opposite ends of the telescope. I think we both agree with Paul's excellent post above, and as I have said numerous time I have no interest in it returning as a non-spectator sport in the immediate future.

You see stocks as separate designated for different customers. (The inference then has to be ‘based on who pays more).

I see them as a single flexible pool from which everyone ‘could’ pull.

I believe the latter is how we should all be viewing it while in a global pandemic.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

I have no interest in it returning as a non-spectator sport in the immediate future.

What happen if supporters cant return to watching sport at the Studium or course for over a few years? What happens then? 

[Mattyblue]

Then the sport is f*cked.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

[Stuart]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Then the sport is f*cked.

Everything else is, so why not.

[Mattyblue]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

Looks as if postponement is becoming increasingly likely then.

But they do seem insistent on playing the play offs, not sure why those games should be exempt, but there you go. The ‘C’ below stood out, with one of those 4 teams being us if we’d actually  turned up at Derby...

2. This means that, in the event of an early curtailment:  

 

a. Final divisional placings should be determined on unweighted points per game (if required).

b. Promotion and relegation should be retained. 

c. Play-Offs should be played in all circumstances but should not be extended (beyond four teams).  

Edited May 21, 2020 by Mattyblue

[arbitro]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

What happen if supporters cant return to watching sport at the Studium or course for over a few years? What happens then? 

It's a question you've asked before and I don't think anybody has a definitive answer to. Of course plenty of clubs will struggle and even go to the wall which would be sad but the same can be said about any business which won't survive. In many ways football will have been the master of its own destiny with so many clubs living beyond their means. I welcomed the news of a potential salary caps in Leagues One and Two which is sensible but there was no mention of the Championship or Premier League which are the real demons in the financial mess football finds itself in.

 

 

[arbitro]

26 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Looks as if postponement is becoming increasingly likely then.

But they do seem insistent on playing the play offs, not sure why those games should be exempt, but there you go. The ‘C’ below stood out, with one of those 4 teams being us if we’d actually  turned up at Derby...

2. This means that, in the event of an early curtailment:  

 

a. Final divisional placings should be determined on unweighted points per game (if required).

b. Promotion and relegation should be retained. 

c. Play-Offs should be played in all circumstances but should not be extended (beyond four teams).  

I guess this news of promotion and relegation would massively change the way some clubs wanted to end the season.  Clubs who will be promoted using PPG will say end the season and the relegated clubs will want to play on. Ultimately it will be down to the safe, mid table clubs who will decide and once again the financial side could well be the deciding factor.

Realistically from a Rovers perspective the outside chance of a playoff place has to be balanced against the costs of testing, putting the games on, travelling  etc.

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

What happen if supporters cant return to watching sport at the Studium or course for over a few years? What happens then? 

I said that I (personally) have no interest in it returning in the immediate future as a non-spectactor sport.  You may find that by August, once the picture for the country and the world is clearer, then my interest may return.

That is completely separate as to whether they should return now, in August or in 2 years time, for which I can see both sides of the argument. I am morally uncomfortable with the fact I cannot see two family members in a local park, but 21 men can congregate in a penalty box grappling each other. Removing the financial issue, the common sense approach would be to bring football back when you can also have a proper kick around with your mates in a field. I'm not bothered whether this season finishes or not. The game itself is much bigger than the 2019/2020 Premier League season.

[Hasta]

57 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I guess this news of promotion and relegation would massively change the way some clubs wanted to end the season.  Clubs who will be promoted using PPG will say end the season and the relegated clubs will want to play on. Ultimately it will be down to the safe, mid table clubs who will decide and once again the financial side could well be the deciding factor.

Realistically from a Rovers perspective the outside chance of a playoff place has to be balanced against the costs of testing, putting the games on, travelling  etc.

Fulham may believe they have an outside chance of finishing top 2 so could vote against it but the rest of the top 6 would vote for. That's 5 votes.

Positions 17 to 21 would avoid relegation  so that's another 5 votes.

You would therefore need 4 of the teams positioned between 7 to 16 to vote to end the season which is surely very likely. 

Grossly unfair scenario tbh to be relegating teams in the situation, especially Charlton who only sat in the bottom 3 for the first time all season after the last round of fixtures. 

I'd also argue it you can't play the rest of the competition, don't play the play offs and just let Fulham go up. But that might be a slightly anti-PNE !

[Hasta]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

You see stocks as separate designated for different customers. (The inference then has to be ‘based on who pays more).

I see them as a single flexible pool from which everyone ‘could’ pull.

I believe the latter is how we should all be viewing it while in a global pandemic.

I currently see stock as being ample enough that currently anyone that works in an office, warehouse or a factory can go and get tested. It was previously just NHS and care workers but this has now been expanded. You see stocks as still being in short supply for NHS and care workers.

Now I may be wrong and it may be difficult to actually get tested if you just work in an office. But as I said previously, I now know people who have gone and got tested just for the sake of it.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Looks as if postponement is becoming increasingly likely then.

But they do seem insistent on playing the play offs, not sure why those games should be exempt, but there you go. The ‘C’ below stood out, with one of those 4 teams being us if we’d actually  turned up at Derby...

2. This means that, in the event of an early curtailment:  

 

a. Final divisional placings should be determined on unweighted points per game (if required).

b. Promotion and relegation should be retained. 

c. Play-Offs should be played in all circumstances but should not be extended (beyond four teams).  

Well no Matty it doesn't look like that at all BUT if we get another Coronavirus spike in the near future and to go into another lockdown, so the EFL bosses want a plan going forward if they have to stop the season. Very sensible and good to see some forward planning at least. 

Clubs like WBA want to finish the season and vast majority of Championship clubs will want too as they have said previously. 

57 minutes ago, Hasta said:

I said that I (personally) have no interest in it returning in the immediate future as a non-spectactor sport.  You may find that by August, once the picture for the country and the world is clearer, then my interest may return.

That is completely separate as to whether they should return now, in August or in 2 years time, for which I can see both sides of the argument. I am morally uncomfortable with the fact I cannot see two family members in a local park, but 21 men can congregate in a penalty box grappling each other. Removing the financial issue, the common sense approach would be to bring football back when you can also have a proper kick around with your mates in a field. I'm not bothered whether this season finishes or not. The game itself is much bigger than the 2019/2020 Premier League season.

Sport could be a non spectator attending for year maybe long depending on what happens with these treatment and Vaccines in the future. I was meant to attending England cricket game and The British Open this summer. Was looking forward to it. 

I can understand about feeling Morally uncomfortable. 

 

 

[Mattyblue]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Well no Matty it doesn't look like that at all BUT if we get another Coronavirus spike in the near future and to go into another lockdown, so the EFL bosses want a plan going forward if they have to stop the season. Very sensible and good to see some forward planning at least. 

 

 

 

 

Chaddy before you start trying to patronise people, try to stop taking every bit of PR guff as gospel and at least try to read between the lines.

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

Chaddy before you start trying to patronise people, try to stop taking every bit of PR guff as gospel and at least try to read between the lines.

Well Matty, maybe read the proposals and work out with they coming up with a back up plan if case we get a second peak of this virus and face another second lockdown. People would criticise them for not coming with well thought out proposals and a Plan B or Plan C. 

Championship clubs want to Continue with the season and always have. Yes you will get Hull City but I don't see many voting to end the season. 

League 2 have made their decisions due to the lack of funding for testing and Out of contract players. 

League 1 clubs? Some clubs want to restart the league and some don't like Accrington Stanley who don't. Their owner doesn't want to restart the season

[Mattyblue]

I have read them, and I have spotted a big change in tone.

It’s called managing expectations and is a big part of PR and crisis management. 

But I’ll bow down to your inside track of 47 Championship and League 1 boardrooms (in various stages of financial collapse) garnered from an EFL press release.
 

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Mattyblue