Football League Suspended

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Dont know if anyone watched the Dortmund and Bayern game earlier. Not the most open game but played at a very high technical standard as youd expect and it would be interesting to see how much time the ball spends on the pitch with no fans compared to with fans, I suspect it is longer.

I think as a huge game it really highlighted exactly how the "new" normal match really is so much inferior compared to a game in front of fans. Although the actual football was very watchable it did have the feel of an unimportant training game rather than a potential title decider. Kimmich scored a lovely chip just before half time (aided by poor goalkeeping) and Dortmund had to play the last half hour without Haaland so did naturally lack a cutting edge against a top class, experienced Bayern side. That being said there wasnt really a flicker of a late rally and it was a different game without 80k Dortmund fans aiding their cause. It did not feel like a decisive day in a title battle at all.

I see young Sancho has been at the choccies over lockdown.....

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Dont know if anyone watched the Dortmund and Bayern game earlier. Not the most open game but played at a very high technical standard as youd expect and it would be interesting to see how much time the ball spends on the pitch with no fans compared to with fans, I suspect it is longer.

I think as a huge game it really highlighted exactly how the "new" normal match really is so much inferior compared to a game in front of fans. Although the actual football was very watchable it did have the feel of an unimportant training game rather than a potential title decider. Kimmich scored a lovely chip just before half time (aided by poor goalkeeping) and Dortmund had to play the last half hour without Haaland so did naturally lack a cutting edge against a top class, experienced Bayern side. That being said there wasnt really a flicker of a late rally and it was a different game without 80k Dortmund fans aiding their cause. It did not feel like a decisive day in a title battle at all.

We'll have to beg to differ. I haven't seen tonight's game (yet) e but I don't get any feeling of proceedings being less important because there isn't a crowd there. Maybe I'd have to see a Rovers game behind closed doors to decide fully.

One or 2 commentators have said that since the return there's been much less rolling about trying to feign injury and harassing and back chatting the ref.

Maybe players have realised there's more important things going on than trying to cheat at the moment.

Edited May 26, 2020 by RevidgeBlue

[Sparks Rover]

Controversy brewing in the women's PL . Liverpool were bottom and deserved to be  but will it be gerrymandered so they stop up....?  Probably.

[roversfan99]

43 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

We'll have to beg to differ. I haven't seen tonight's game (yet) e but I don't get any feeling of proceedings being less important because there isn't a crowd there. Maybe I'd have to see a Rovers game behind closed doors to decide fully.

One or 2 commentators have said that since the return there's been much less rolling about trying to feign injury and harassing and back chatting the ref.

Maybe players have realised there's more important things going on than trying to cheat at the moment.

I felt it was particularly prevalent today as to how sanitised behind closed doors football was because of what was at stake, ie the title. I personally would say it is naive to suggest that an empty stadium does not lessen the impact of a game, especially an important one. It feels like a precession and going through the motions.

There are various reasons for this. The main one is something that is in the back of my mind and surely every player and fan alike. When that title is lifted, it will be in front of an empty stadium. One for the history books but not one able to be cherished and celebrated in unison. In regards solely to this game, of course there were no real celebrations at the end in terms of players and fans. It was noticeable how limp the end of the game was, Dortmund needed a result, I appreciate there are tactical and personnel limitations but there was no feel of a critical game, youd have one of the most atmospheric grounds baying for a goal, maybe theyd have chucked Hummels up top for 5 minutes and gone direct but nothing like that. It felt like going through the motions. The commentators said there have been 3 home wins in 22 games, showing how home advantage is now obsolete.

I dont want it to seem like I am only willing to consider things that strengthen my point. The standard of the game again was very watchable and indeed outside factors being removed I think increase the time the ball may be on the pitch, although that assumption would need statistics to prove.

A few more minor points to add. 5 subs is something I am not fond of and a symptom of rushing loads of games in at once. The commentator said there were more bookings for staff members for dissent now they could be heard. And I think VAR helps to limit attempts of cheating as much as I dislike it overall.

I personally dont think there is any doubt as to the fact that no supporters is to the detriment of football, it is to what extent and to be honest its slightly more affected than I expected or realised beforehand. Watchable but also without its edge.

Edited May 26, 2020 by roversfan99

[speeeeeeedie]

 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I felt it was particularly prevalent today as to how sanitised behind closed doors football was because of what was at stake, ie the title. I personally would say it is naive to suggest that an empty stadium does not lessen the impact of a game, especially an important one. It feels like a precession and going through the motions.

There are various reasons for this. The main one is something that is in the back of my mind and surely every player and fan alike. When that title is lifted, it will be in front of an empty stadium. One for the history books but not one able to be cherished and celebrated in unison. In regards solely to this game, of course there were no real celebrations at the end in terms of players and fans. It was noticeable how limp the end of the game was, Dortmund needed a result, I appreciate there are tactical and personnel limitations but there was no feel of a critical game, youd have one of the most atmospheric grounds baying for a goal, maybe theyd have chucked Hummels up top for 5 minutes and gone direct but nothing like that. It felt like going through the motions. The commentators said there have been 3 home wins in 22 games, showing how home advantage is now obsolete.

I dont want it to seem like I am only willing to consider things that strengthen my point. The standard of the game again was very watchable and indeed outside factors being removed I think increase the time the ball may be on the pitch, although that assumption would need statistics to prove.

A few more minor points to add. 5 subs is something I am not fond of and a symptom of rushing loads of games in at once. The commentator said there were more bookings for staff members for dissent now they could be heard. And I think VAR helps to limit attempts of cheating as much as I dislike it overall.

I personally dont think there is any doubt as to the fact that no supporters is to the detriment of football, it is to what extent and to be honest its slightly more affected than I expected or realised beforehand. Watchable but also without its edge.

I disagree with your first paragraph and agree with your last.

Professional footballers want to win whether there is a crowd or not. 

Football also needs fans in the ground for multiple reasons.

Based on your summary Rovers should be a cert for a playoff spot though. They've been playing at a mostly empty Ewood all season. They are well schooled in playing in front of a sterile atmosphere and should thrive.

[roversfan99]

Just now, speeeeeeedie said:

 

I disagree with your first paragraph and agree with your last.

Professional footballers want to win whether there is a crowd or not. 

Football also needs fans in the ground for multiple reasons.

Based on your summary Rovers should be a cert for a playoff spot though. They've been playing at a mostly empty Ewood all season. They are well schooled in playing in front of a sterile atmosphere and should thrive.

Very true that professional footballers want to win every match, crowd or otherwise and indeed even training matches. But having a crowd will help add a percentage of motivation.

You would think that plus in terms of away games, we have more left than home games so another slight advantage in what is a situation that has an unavoidable unfairness about it.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You would think that plus in terms of away games, we have more left than home games so another slight advantage in what is a situation that has an unavoidable unfairness about it.

Not perfect but nowhere near as unfair as ending a season on paper according to a mathematical formula.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Your assertions the other day and above that the middle class and middle aged are the ones most likely to break lockdown rules are completely contrary to what I I've seen from working throughout the crisis.

Whilst it was very quiet during the first week or two of lockdown, since then requests for runs to pick up drugs, and people ringing our office at 1a.m. for "a 6 seater" with music blaring out in the background and a party obviously going on  have been more and more commonplace.

There have also been certain streets and estates where little notice appears to have been taken of lockdown rules and social distancing from the off. They've obviously been practising their own particular brand of herd immunity. Meanwhile we haven't heard a dicky bird from most of what you might call our middle class or slightly better heeled customers.

I even picked up a young girl who worked in a large nursing home after she finished work and the second she got in the car she was straight on the phone arranging a meet up with a group of lads.  From picking her up on previous occasions it also seemed clear  she had  been carrying on as normal.

Even I felt very cross about that as whilst I don't agree with lockdown or most of the restrictions in principle, since they came into effect I've complied with them, and it's really unfair to ignore them  when you know for a fact you're coming into direct contact every day with the most vulnerable people who are also sitting ducks in the enclosed confines of a nursing home.

(Sorry if in wrong thread)

Assertions is a strong word, just my own personal observation. I haven't seen things at all the way you have. Perhaps just different areas. 

"a confident and forceful statement of fact or belief." - I don't really think I did that, I just gave a point of view. I didn't force anything.

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Controversy brewing in the women's PL . Liverpool were bottom and deserved to be  but will it be gerrymandered so they stop up....?  Probably.

Lost all hope of the Women's game having any kind of integrity a few years back when they made up those new divisions based solely on reputation and money rather than who'd won the Divisions and the Cups. Abysmal from the people involved at board level there.

[Vinjay]

36 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Lost all hope of the Women's game having any kind of integrity a few years back when they made up those new divisions based solely on reputation and money rather than who'd won the Divisions and the Cups. Abysmal from the people involved at board level there.

About as fair as UEFA. Man United and Liverpool are on the same page when it suits them. Liverpool actually outdoing United fans with their whining about FUP in recent months. Would rather see the season continue in some fashion though (as long as it's finished in 2020) so Liverpool can get closer to reclaiming the most titles record.  

They were lucky that Rovers were meek enough to accept being robbed of promotion without taking it all the way to CAS and beyond.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Vinjay

[roversfan99]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not perfect but nowhere near as unfair as ending a season on paper according to a mathematical formula.

If it was unfeasible to finish the season, it would be absolutely crazy to use a mathematical formula, at that point it would have to be null and void.

If they can only play the top 2 or 3 leagues, there is absolutely no justifiable way that there can be relegation from the lowest playable league and promotion based on formulaes from the unfinished league below. If that happens then the system is an absolute joke. Ive been told that it does need to be like that but not why as of yet.

[chaddyrovers]

23 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If it was unfeasible to finish the season, it would be absolutely crazy to use a mathematical formula, at that point it would have to be null and void.

If they can only play the top 2 or 3 leagues, there is absolutely no justifiable way that there can be relegation from the lowest playable league and promotion based on formulaes from the unfinished league below. If that happens then the system is an absolute joke. Ive been told that it does need to be like that but not why as of yet.

Have you seen the system that the EFL was use to settle League 2 and League 1. Average points per game. In League 1 it would mean Peterborough would miss out on Playoffs and Wycombe would make the playoffs. But The EFL is leaving to clubs to decide by a voting that Majority wins so clubs cant complain. Some League 1 clubs have played different number of games so that has been factor in

League 2 clubs have voted for this system. 

I think Rick Parry has shown some leadership through this entire process and honestly with clubs. 

 

[Mattyblue]

I get why they feel they need to use that points per game method, but it massively against the spirit of a football league season.

Club’s can charge towards promotion, play offs, relegation late in a season or vice versa can collapse in form.

Yet, competing the season on the pitch in empty grounds also impacts this famous ‘sporting integrity’ as they are conditions different to what went before - I.e. the Bundesliga is showing that home advantage is now diminished etc.

Either way is inherently unfair to me, but we are where we are.

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Have you seen the system that the EFL was use to settle League 2 and League 1. Average points per game. In League 1 it would mean Peterborough would miss out on Playoffs and Wycombe would make the playoffs. But The EFL is leaving to clubs to decide by a voting that Majority wins so clubs cant complain. Some League 1 clubs have played different number of games so that has been factor in

League 2 clubs have voted for this system. 

I think Rick Parry has shown some leadership through this entire process and honestly with clubs. 

 

Using mathematical formulaes to decide promotions is unfair, full stop. Its a half arsed, inconsistent method whereby teams are being relegated after 46 games and promoted after 30 odd games to replace them. Its a load of bollocks. You either can finish the season and you do, or you cant and you dont. 

Ultimately, as with a lot of situations, whether it be the FA, the Tory Government, Venkys or indeed Mowbray, your instinct to support and defend comes before your ability to come to any constructive feedback. Thus in this case, you have chosen one of your usual deflection tactics, sometimes you refer back to supposed explanations that you have "given in the past" and in this case you reference thought processes from someone else that you name, but in both cases you refuse to state the argument. In this case you have admitted that you dont even know why Parry thinks promotion and relegation is compulsory as you "wasnt in the meeting" but agree with it anyway.

As you know, I felt that resuming the season was in terms of safety and also morals, the wrong thing to do. With players back training and testing underway I feel that such a debate is now fairly moot. But one thing I do strongly believe HAS to happen is a bit of consistency and no silly half measures or points per game ratios. Getting teams to vote on it is inherently flawed because ultimately teams will vote based on their own interests. Surely it should be, the leagues that finish do so as normal up until the last league in which no relegations happen as there are a lack of teams who have completed promotion seasons to replace them.

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I get why they feel they need to use that points per game method, but it massively against the spirit of a football league season.

Club’s can charge towards promotion, play offs, relegation late in a season or vice versa can collapse in form.

Yet, competing the season on the pitch in empty grounds also impacts this famous ‘sporting integrity’ as they are conditions different to what went before - I.e. the Bundesliga is showing that home advantage is now diminished etc.

Either way is inherently unfair to me, but we are where we are.

Absolutely. For me out of all of it, its the inconsistency that drives me crazy.

As you touch on there is going to be unfairness regardless of the situation but promotion on PPG to relegate teams who have had all 46 games is the unfairest method of all.

You cant be using formulaes to complete seasons for me. It is either safe to finish it or it isnt. You then have a clean break between completed divisions and divisions that have had to write the season off. So much can change in the final games as you mention, I know the Championship would probably finish regardless now but an example would have been that Charlton dropped into the bottom 3 I think for the first time on the last weekend of played football.

[oldjamfan1]

31 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I get why they feel they need to use that points per game method, but it massively against the spirit of a football league season.

Club’s can charge towards promotion, play offs, relegation late in a season or vice versa can collapse in form.

Yet, competing the season on the pitch in empty grounds also impacts this famous ‘sporting integrity’ as they are conditions different to what went before - I.e. the Bundesliga is showing that home advantage is now diminished etc.

Either way is inherently unfair to me, but we are where we are.

I am in agreement with you Matty. 'Unfair' is one way to describe it, but hands up all those in employment whose job has been unaffected in any way by the events of the past few months. There won't be many, I suspect and football is no different. Season 19/20 simply cannot be finished without something having changed from pre-lockdown. Any and each of those differences will be seen as 'unfair' by someone, depending on its effect on their own personal situation (their club, in other words). 

The world has changed, it is really that simple. 

[chaddyrovers]

26 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Using mathematical formulaes to decide promotions is unfair, full stop. Its a half arsed, inconsistent method whereby teams are being relegated after 46 games and promoted after 30 odd games to replace them. Its a load of bollocks. You either can finish the season and you do, or you cant and you dont. 

Ultimately, as with a lot of situations, whether it be the FA, the Tory Government, Venkys or indeed Mowbray, your instinct to support and defend comes before your ability to come to any constructive feedback. Thus in this case, you have chosen one of your usual deflection tactics, sometimes you refer back to supposed explanations that you have "given in the past" and in this case you reference thought processes from someone else that you name, but in both cases you refuse to state the argument. In this case you have admitted that you dont even know why Parry thinks promotion and relegation is compulsory as you "wasnt in the meeting" but agree with it anyway.

As you know, I felt that resuming the season was in terms of safety and also morals, the wrong thing to do. With players back training and testing underway I feel that such a debate is now fairly moot. But one thing I do strongly believe HAS to happen is a bit of consistency and no silly half measures or points per game ratios. Getting teams to vote on it is inherently flawed because ultimately teams will vote based on their own interests. Surely it should be, the leagues that finish do so as normal up until the last league in which no relegations happen as there are a lack of teams who have completed promotion seasons to replace them.

Wasn't Parry tho. It was the FA Chairman Greg Clarke who told PL clubs that they would be relegation this season one way or the other after press stories that certain teams want to stop any relegation this season. Its compulsory as the agreement between PL and FA when the Premier League was set up in 1991. That's why!!!

The League 2 clubs have voted to end the season in Points Per Game season. Port Vale who was 8th in League 2 voted to end the season and miss out on the playoffs. The clubs have a vote. Its a fairer way as some clubs don't want to un furlough their players and let their contracts run out. 

League 1 clubs have a vote shortly and I would guess the majority of clubs will vote to end the season on Points Per Game system and just have the playoffs. With the top 2 going up promote. 

 

Championship clubs will vote to resume the season

[Mattyblue]

13 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I am in agreement with you Matty. 'Unfair' is one way to describe it, but hands up all those in employment whose job has been unaffected in any way by the events of the past few months. There won't be many, I suspect and football is no different. Season 19/20 simply cannot be finished without something having changed from pre-lockdown. Any and each of those differences will be seen as 'unfair' by someone, depending on its effect on their own personal situation (their club, in other words). 

The world has changed, it is really that simple. 

It has. But the football authorities continue to bang on about ‘sporting integrity’ It’s a load of bollocks, any chance of that has long gone whatever method they use.

The top two divisions will re-start to ensure the cash keeps rolling in - which is a perfectly legitimate reason to get back on the pitch, considering what could happen to clubs if we don’t  - but just stop with the pretence it’s for any other reason than cold hard cash.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Mattyblue

[roversfan99]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Wasn't Parry tho. It was the FA Chairman Greg Clarke who told PL clubs that they would be relegation this season one way or the other after press stories that certain teams want to stop any relegation this season. Its compulsory as the agreement between PL and FA when the Premier League was set up in 1991. That's why!!!

The League 2 clubs have voted to end the season in Points Per Game season. Port Vale who was 8th in League 2 voted to end the season and miss out on the playoffs. The clubs have a vote. Its a fairer way as some clubs don't want to un furlough their players and let their contracts run out. 

League 1 clubs have a vote shortly and I would guess the majority of clubs will vote to end the season on Points Per Game system and just have the playoffs. With the top 2 going up promote. 

 

Championship clubs will vote to resume the season

The agreement didnt account for such an extraordinary and unprecedented situation though. You can't just stick to that as if its a strict rule, if ever there was time for some flexibility...

All I am saying is that now it is clear that some leagues will be finished, surely some common sense comes in. The integrity of the season is long gone, no method of conclusion is fair.

But consistency is maybe all we can ask for. If you cant see the unfairness and the inconsistency of relegating 3 teams based on finishing a season behind closed doors, all games played at least, and then replacing them with 3 teams calculated on a formula who hadnt finished their season, then more fool you.

If you also cant see how teams in the main will vote for what suits their clubs current League situation then you are more naive than you think, its the obvious flaw of all of these votes. It was clear that League 2 clubs couldnt afford to finish and they did well to just universally agree but in the top 3 leagues there is potential scope to finish. Who was the first team in the Championship to ask for the season to be scrapped? A Hull team dropping like a stone. Whereas Charlton are desperate to finish. 

Your mindset is, there is an agreement, it has to be honoured and balls to the extent of the pandemic and the uniqueness of the situation, and balls to being flexible, the FA's decision will be the correct one.

Some consistency, common sense, flexibility and an acceptance that "sporting integrity" cannot be fully maintained regardless but as much as possible should be kept is what I ask. Not blindly accept that a rigid agreement made before a one off world wide pandemic justifies these bollocks formulaes that are being used.

 

[chaddyrovers]

48 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The agreement didnt account for such an extraordinary and unprecedented situation though. You can't just stick to that as if its a strict rule, if ever there was time for some flexibility...

All I am saying is that now it is clear that some leagues will be finished, surely some common sense comes in. The integrity of the season is long gone, no method of conclusion is fair.

But consistency is maybe all we can ask for. If you cant see the unfairness and the inconsistency of relegating 3 teams based on finishing a season behind closed doors, all games played at least, and then replacing them with 3 teams calculated on a formula who hadnt finished their season, then more fool you.

If you also cant see how teams in the main will vote for what suits their clubs current League situation then you are more naive than you think, its the obvious flaw of all of these votes. It was clear that League 2 clubs couldnt afford to finish and they did well to just universally agree but in the top 3 leagues there is potential scope to finish. Who was the first team in the Championship to ask for the season to be scrapped? A Hull team dropping like a stone. Whereas Charlton are desperate to finish. 

Your mindset is, there is an agreement, it has to be honoured and balls to the extent of the pandemic and the uniqueness of the situation, and balls to being flexible, the FA's decision will be the correct one.

Some consistency, common sense, flexibility and an acceptance that "sporting integrity" cannot be fully maintained regardless but as much as possible should be kept is what I ask. Not blindly accept that a rigid agreement made before a one off world wide pandemic justifies these bollocks formulaes that are being used.

 

it is extraordinary and unprecedented situation for most of world. But I also think it is very unfair that PL clubs want to take relegation off the table. The rules are there. Yes a degree in flexibility and common sense has been applied by them slowly coming back to training and no contact training yet. Plus flexibility to when the season will start and end by clubs voting for it and no one is forcing them to rush back. 

Clubs have been given a vote to vote for what they want. Yes of course every club will vote for what suits that and I wouldn't expect anything else. I don't know if you seen the 2 interviews last week with Joey Barton and Gareth Ainsworth that both managers want to play on cos they think their team would have got second place but both conceded that their club owner will do what is best for their club financially. Accrington Stanley's owner is against any return to football before next season cos most of players are out of contract and doesn't want to take them of the furlough scheme. But what you don't seem to understand is that the FL and its chairman Rick Parry has given the power to the clubs and their owners to decide so no one cannot complain the season isn't done a fair manner cos its their clubs choices. Yes Sunderland and Peterborough will miss out. Whilst clubs like Wycombe and Fleetwood make the top 6. 

Yes Hull's Owners want their season to end but their manager want to play on now he got his players back from injury. Barnsley and Charlton want to play on and fair play to them. WBA have said publicly they want to play on. But if you read my example from before against Port Vale who was 8th in League 2 and just outside the playoffs voted to end the season. 

Yes there is an agreement between the Premier League and FA that they will be relegation and promotion between the PL and FL. We all know  what the pandemic is and uniqueness of the situation including the clubs and players plus supporters. The PL and FL have got testing for players and so far we have minimal cases including just 2 positives test in the championship and I think just 2 in the last round of PL testing. 

 

[DE.]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

It has. But the football authorities continue to bang on about ‘sporting integrity’ It’s a load of bollocks, any chance of that has long gone whatever method they use.

The top two divisions will re-start to ensure the cash keeps rolling in - which is a perfectly legitimate reason to get back on the pitch, considering what could happen to clubs if we don’t  - but just stop with the pretence it’s for any other reason than cold hard cash.

The Championship and L1 lost their integrity after the Bolton debacle IMV, especially L1 with a bunch of teams playing Bolton's youth squad at the start of the season compared to a still-awful-but-mostly-professional team afterwards. 

[roversfan99]

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

it is extraordinary and unprecedented situation for most of world. But I also think it is very unfair that PL clubs want to take relegation off the table. The rules are there. Yes a degree in flexibility and common sense has been applied by them slowly coming back to training and no contact training yet. Plus flexibility to when the season will start and end by clubs voting for it and no one is forcing them to rush back. 

Clubs have been given a vote to vote for what they want. Yes of course every club will vote for what suits that and I wouldn't expect anything else. I don't know if you seen the 2 interviews last week with Joey Barton and Gareth Ainsworth that both managers want to play on cos they think their team would have got second place but both conceded that their club owner will do what is best for their club financially. Accrington Stanley's owner is against any return to football before next season cos most of players are out of contract and doesn't want to take them of the furlough scheme. But what you don't seem to understand is that the FL and its chairman Rick Parry has given the power to the clubs and their owners to decide so no one cannot complain the season isn't done a fair manner cos its their clubs choices. Yes Sunderland and Peterborough will miss out. Whilst clubs like Wycombe and Fleetwood make the top 6. 

Yes Hull's Owners want their season to end but their manager want to play on now he got his players back from injury. Barnsley and Charlton want to play on and fair play to them. WBA have said publicly they want to play on. But if you read my example from before against Port Vale who was 8th in League 2 and just outside the playoffs voted to end the season. 

Yes there is an agreement between the Premier League and FA that they will be relegation and promotion between the PL and FL. We all know  what the pandemic is and uniqueness of the situation including the clubs and players plus supporters. The PL and FL have got testing for players and so far we have minimal cases including just 2 positives test in the championship and I think just 2 in the last round of PL testing. 

 

What you dont seem to appreciate is that I am talking specifically where 2 leagues meet where one is completed and one isnt. 

The reason that I used the word flexibility is because you keep reverting back to rules set in stone in the early 90s that simply cannot be prioritised within such a unique situation. 

In League 2, it was a unanimous decision because it is logistically and financially impossible as agreed by all clubs to complete the season. Its not as straightforward above that.

I hardly think having an attitude of "decide amongst yourself" is showing great leadership. I was opposed to the restart at all on safety grounds and moral grounds but am looking past that now and accepting that some leagues are going to be completed. Its nothing to be excited about but its possibly the fairest way. But what I am clinging onto is that they should only complete the seasons to which the season can actually be completed. Clinging onto rules rigidly that simply do not account for such unprecedented events to try and justify a bizarre necessity to relegate and promote, even based on totally unfair formulaes makes absolutely zero sense and makes an absolute mockery of the supposed integrity and fairness of football in this country. 

I do think that allowing clubs to vote opens up a can of worms in terms of self interest but that is not my main expectation. I just cannot fathom why they are using this points per game shite. Whatever the leagues that can be completed, ie the Prem, Championship and if possible League 1, complete and award titles, promotions and relegations between those divisions. Beneath that, the divisions unfortunately CANNOT be completed so no promotions and relegations, including between the top division unable to be completed and the bottom division that is able to be completed. 

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I get why they feel they need to use that points per game method, but it massively against the spirit of a football league season.

Club’s can charge towards promotion, play offs, relegation late in a season or vice versa can collapse in form.

Yet, competing the season on the pitch in empty grounds also impacts this famous ‘sporting integrity’ as they are conditions different to what went before - I.e. the Bundesliga is showing that home advantage is now diminished etc.

Either way is inherently unfair to me, but we are where we are.

You certainly wouldn’t put your house on Leeds going up. PPG would be massively in their interests.

Meanwhile Mowbray has planned the season out to give us the best chance of a late charge into those play-offs on the final day (knowing full well we couldn’t hang on to it if we got there  too early and he would be completely scuppered. (I jest of course).

BCD games though: as a home fan, no advantage of being able to influence the ref: away fans, no day out; neutral fans, a completely sterile affair - if we thought VAR ruined the excitement and spontaneity, BCD will kill it off completely. Imagine both at the same time!

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

What you dont seem to appreciate is that I am talking specifically where 2 leagues meet where one is completed and one isnt. 

The reason that I used the word flexibility is because you keep reverting back to rules set in stone in the early 90s that simply cannot be prioritised within such a unique situation. 

In League 2, it was a unanimous decision because it is logistically and financially impossible as agreed by all clubs to complete the season. Its not as straightforward above that.

I hardly think having an attitude of "decide amongst yourself" is showing great leadership. I was opposed to the restart at all on safety grounds and moral grounds but am looking past that now and accepting that some leagues are going to be completed. Its nothing to be excited about but its possibly the fairest way. But what I am clinging onto is that they should only complete the seasons to which the season can actually be completed. Clinging onto rules rigidly that simply do not account for such unprecedented events to try and justify a bizarre necessity to relegate and promote, even based on totally unfair formulaes makes absolutely zero sense and makes an absolute mockery of the supposed integrity and fairness of football in this country. 

I do think that allowing clubs to vote opens up a can of worms in terms of self interest but that is not my main expectation. I just cannot fathom why they are using this points per game shite. Whatever the leagues that can be completed, ie the Prem, Championship and if possible League 1, complete and award titles, promotions and relegations between those divisions. Beneath that, the divisions unfortunately CANNOT be completed so no promotions and relegations, including between the top division unable to be completed and the bottom division that is able to be completed. 

The rules between premiership and Championship are they to protect clubs in football league clubs from the Premier clubs stopping them going up. So if we null and void the season as you have suggest you want then those clubs in the bottom 3 clubs in the Premier League can get loads of cash for another season whilst stopping clubs who should go in from the Football league don't get any cash. Imagine what that cash windfall will do to club like Brentford or Rovers. Massively income for the club plus more sponsorship and revenue from it. Football club is a business in one sense. 

Its their league at the end of the day and given clubs a vote in how to complete the season is democracy and saying its your decision to make. The EFL will work with them to implement what their decision they made. 

Well what other way cos you decide the season if you don't use Points Per Game system? Look at Coventry situation who were going to win the league if we didn't have this Coronavirus. Is it fair that they don't go up? Is it fair to a club like Stanley to tell them to unfurlough their players and get them to sign new contract for a extra month costly Andy Holt money who is the chairman there so you can complete whilst he doesn't want to? Or look at Wycombe who has spent the longest in the top 2 all season and have still have 10 games to play where has other clubs have only 8 games to play but are outside the playoffs currently? SO how would you sort such a situation out in League 1? Imagine what an increase in Money received from EFL and Sponsorship would do for Wycombe or Coventry as club? is it fair on those clubs to miss on a substantial windfall that would improve the club and could be used to improve the football club?

This is very unique situation for the football world but they can find a way past these problems. 

[Stuart]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The rules between premiership and Championship are they to protect clubs in football league clubs from the Premier clubs stopping them going up. So if we null and void the season as you have suggest you want then those clubs in the bottom 3 clubs in the Premier League can get loads of cash for another season whilst stopping clubs who should go in from the Football league don't get any cash. Imagine what that cash windfall will do to club like Brentford or Rovers. Massively income for the club plus more sponsorship and revenue from it. Football club is a business in one sense. 

Its their league at the end of the day and given clubs a vote in how to complete the season is democracy and saying its your decision to make. The EFL will work with them to implement what their decision they made. 

Well what other way cos you decide the season if you don't use Points Per Game system? Look at Coventry situation who were going to win the league if we didn't have this Coronavirus. Is it fair that they don't go up? Is it fair to a club like Stanley to tell them to unfurlough their players and get them to sign new contract for a extra month costly Andy Holt money who is the chairman there so you can complete whilst he doesn't want to? Or look at Wycombe who has spent the longest in the top 2 all season and have still have 10 games to play where has other clubs have only 8 games to play but are outside the playoffs currently? SO how would you sort such a situation out in League 1? Imagine what an increase in Money received from EFL and Sponsorship would do for Wycombe or Coventry as club? is it fair on those clubs to miss on a substantial windfall that would improve the club and could be used to improve the football club?

This is very unique situation for the football world but they can find a way past these problems. 

The reason null and void is the best option is because it has an equal outcome for everyone. The unprecedented nature of this means it should be possible.

Which Championship teams “deserve to go up”? As not a single team has mathematically been promoted or relegated their is / was still time for anything to happen.

PPG is arbitrary as not all matches are equal and players go in and out of form and fitness.

There is no good way of doing this from a competition perspective, which is why restarting this season in September was fairest and also supported a safety first approach.

BCD just serves to further prove that TV is more important than fans. On  note, I don’t see any reason why 3pm kick offs should be sacrosanct in future. This pretence that it will stop fans going to games is a hollow argument.