Football League Suspended

[RevidgeBlue]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Surely based on your overall stance you would agree that behind closed doors is no more than a temporary best alternative and not a full substitute though which is my point really.

"Temporary best alternative." Absolutely.

The question is, is it better than than either declaring everything null andf void or finishing the season via a mathematical formula?

I'd say a big "hell yeah" on both counts. Then if you take the view that the lesser of two evils is to finish the season the question is then "If possible would you like to watch it on TV?".

Again I'd give that a big thumbs up and for once if media and broadcasters did the right thing and as a one off made all games free to air until the end of the season as a one off I think that should be applauded rather than viewed as part of some machiavellian plot 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

"Temporary best alternative." Absolutely.

The question is, is it better than than either declaring everything null andf void or finishing the season via a mathematical formula?

I'd say a big "hell yeah" on both counts. Then if you take the view that the lesser of two evils is to finish the season the question is then "If possible would you like to watch it on TV?".

Again I'd give that a big thumbs up and for once if media and broadcasters did the right thing and as a one off made all games free to air until the end of the season as a one off I think that should be applauded rather than viewed as part of some machiavellian plot 

Surely the primary reason to finish the season is financial which would make the choice to have all games free to air as conflicting?

The mathematical formula should not be an option full stop and if that does happen to promote a team to a completed league then that will be an outrage.

[roversfan99]

https://mol.im/a/8374755

Genuinely considering putting in FIFA 20 sound effects. That is a bonkers idea.

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Surely the primary reason to finish the season is financial which would make the choice to have all games free to air as conflicting?

The mathematical formula should not be an option full stop and if that does happen to promote a team to a completed league then that will be an outrage.

Cos the government asked Premier league and broadcasters to do so. So fans who dont have Sky or BT could watch games on normal tv. 

 

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cos the government asked Premier league and broadcasters to do so. So fans who dont have Sky or BT could watch games on normal tv. 

 

It makes little sense to me. Just because the government has done it isnt a reason as to why. Is it to peddle this "boost the nations morale" farfetched nonsense mentioned previously? As if the nations habits regarding lockdown will majorly change because some behind closed doors football is on free to air TV. Surely resuming is a financial decision to ensure that clubs still bet TV money from companies such as Sky and BT.

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It makes little sense to me. Just because the government has done it isnt a reason as to why. Is it to peddle this "boost the nations morale" farfetched nonsense mentioned previously? As if the nations habits regarding lockdown will majorly change because some behind closed doors football is on free to air TV. 

Government has done it so fans who dont have Sky or BT can watch live Premier league football. Not every football fan does. 

 

 

 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Government has done it so fans who dont have Sky or BT can watch live Premier league football. Not every football fan does. 

 

 

 

Youve not answered my question. If that was the case why isnt it free all the time? If people want to watch they will buy Sky and/or BT if they dont have it already. If they cant afford it then they cant afford it. A bit like anything in life.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

I don't think BCD games are necessary. I understand the argument that it can be considered the most 'fair' way to end the season but i think there's a debate to be had there. In my view, risks considered, the most appropriate solution would have been to void the whole season, wait for things to settle down over the next 6 months or so with regular reassessments and then start afresh for 2020-21 when the time is right. Something would need to be done about Bolton's point deduction but other than that there would be winners and losers. Shame for Liverpool, Leeds, WBA, but good for Norwich, Luton, Barnsley. That's life.

I think if Sky didn't have English football over a financial barrel the story would be very different indeed. I don't buy this about the authorities wanting to boost morale or ensure fairness in the leagues. Its a financial decision made in no small part by those who pay the piper and their desires to see football on TV asap.

I can understand why some people want football back in their lives asap and are relishing the prospect of sitting at home with it on tv every night. I'm not. IMV watching games in empty grounds through Sky is not something that i have any real desire to do. I may watch bits but won't be sat glued to the tv enjoying the 'bonanza' of Sky coverage.

Those saying we can't have crowds in grounds again until a vaccine arrives - nobody seems to be considering the possibility of one not arriving. Then what? We spend the rest of our lives never going to any large gatherings or social events - weddings, birthday parties, football, cricket, festivals? Not feasible. They will have to come up with an alternative.

 

Ok,  thanks for clarifying your viewpoint.

I disagree on the fairness aspect and I fully agree with your last paragraph above which once again seems to contradict the rest of what you are saying. 

They have come up with an alternative  - BCD.

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Youve not answered my question. If that was the case why isnt it free all the time? If people want to watch they will buy Sky and/or BT if they dont have it already. If they cant afford it then they cant afford it. A bit like anything in life.

Cos Sky and BT paid for so many games per season to show live. Tend to be in 3 seasons blocks. So Sky are showing their games they paid plus more live games for free on Pick channel.

At the last TV Deal Sky bought 4 packages of 32 games each package. BT Sport bought 2 packages(32 games and 20 games packages) and Amazon bought 20 games per season. 

So the extra games not covered in the TV deal are being shown on tv now that fans cant attend games so everyone can see football if they wish.

Edited June 1, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[RevidgeBlue]

51 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Surely the primary reason to finish the season is financial which would make the choice to have all games free to air as conflicting?

The mathematical formula should not be an option full stop and if that does happen to promote a team to a completed league then that will be an outrage.

It is financia from the Club's point of view, if it means they don't have to repay huge chunks of money they cant afford to broadcasters so much the better.

I can't really speak for the Broadcasters,  maybe sufficient numbers were (like me) too lazy to cancel their existing subscriptions and they think it would be worthwhile to put the remainder of the season on for free to whet appetites for next season. I wouldn't imagine they'd pick up huge numbers of new subscribers at this stage of the season normally.

I still think as a very close second it is also infinitely fairer to finish the season on the pitch than void it as well.

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Certainly as far as the Bundesliga is concerned, I would say it's been as far from "training ground football" as you can get. The product has been fully committed and of a technically high standard indistinguishable from a "normal" match in front of crowds.

As regards your other point I'm not mixing up "normal" with BCD at all. However I'd say that if the Authorities deem that football HAS to be played behind closed doors then for me:

1) From both a neutral armchair supporters' point of view, and that of people supporting their own team, it's better to have some football BCD than no football at all.

2) Whilst not 100% ideal It's still infinitely fairer to complete as many Leagues as you can BCD than to declare everything null and void or end the season via a mathematical formula.

(and most importantly)

3) By fulfilling fixtures a lot of Clubs might be safeguarding their future and ensuring there is still something to go back to when their fans are allowed to return.

I actually think it's quite a self centred and arrogant standpoint to take that "I don't fancy the idea of football BCD, therefore if I can't attend in person the game shouldn't be allowed to be held. No-one is suggesting that this should be a permanent thing or even that football BCD is quite as good as "normal". It's a temporary needs must solution to cater for an exceptional and hopefully one off situation.

How is it self centred to say that if it isn’t safe for spectators then it isn’t safe and as a result BCD is a bad idea?

You seem worried about the financial impact but only for less than half of league clubs. The financial impact is worse for L1/L2 but they can’t afford to invest in weekly testing. PL and Championship clubs facing financial ruin are the ones who have been living beyond their means for years. Why do they deserve saving more? Let a Man Utd or an Arsenal go pop rather than a Fylde or other.

These clubs have become junkies hooked on TV money and unable to get off it. Meanwhile others suffer instead.

BCD is just a distraction and serves to prove that clubs don’t regard fans as being as important to them as TV. Sad.

[Guest]

I would love for them to bring this back - Gogglebox style. 

 

 

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

58 minutes ago, Stuart said:

How is it self centred to say that if it isn’t safe for spectators then it isn’t safe and as a result BCD is a bad idea?

You seem worried about the financial impact but only for less than half of league clubs. The financial impact is worse for L1/L2 but they can’t afford to invest in weekly testing. PL and Championship clubs facing financial ruin are the ones who have been living beyond their means for years. Why do they deserve saving more? Let a Man Utd or an Arsenal go pop rather than a Fylde or other.

These clubs have become junkies hooked on TV money and unable to get off it. Meanwhile others suffer instead.

BCD is just a distraction and serves to prove that clubs don’t regard fans as being as important to them as TV. Sad.

The issue is that the players and staff can be regularly tested. The fans can’t. So BCD is theoretically safe. It doesn’t rule out the possibility of a positive test but the players are in a far safer position than the fans.

i see this as maintaining the integrity of the competition. How else can you resolve the leagues? Fans clearly aren’t going to be allowed to attend for months and every other proposition has significant draw backs. Ultimately, what is the alternative?

[Stuart]

37 minutes ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

The issue is that the players and staff can be regularly tested. The fans can’t. So BCD is theoretically safe. It doesn’t rule out the possibility of a positive test but the players are in a far safer position than the fans.

i see this as maintaining the integrity of the competition. How else can you resolve the leagues? Fans clearly aren’t going to be allowed to attend for months and every other proposition has significant draw backs. Ultimately, what is the alternative?

Wait. Restart this season in March 2021.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Stuart said:

Wait. Restart this season in March 2021.

And who says it will be safe by then and what happens if no vaccine or treatment is found? 

 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Wait. Restart this season in March 2021.

Surely if we get to March 2021 the best thing to do is wait a few months further and just start again from 2021/22 season, scrapping the 2020/21 season in it's entirety and leaving the 19/20 season where it is/giving Liverpool the title?

To play a season with the number 19 in it, in 2021 is just baffling to me. It's pointless IMO.

[Gone to seed]

Championship set to restart on 20th June.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52834579

[rigger]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

And who says it will be safe by then and what happens if no vaccine or treatment is found? 

 

I doubt if a reliable vaccine will ever be found, as viruses tend to mutate, to negate the effects of vaccines.

[Mattyblue]

22 minutes ago, WIR Second Coming said:

Championship set to restart on 20th June.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52834579

QPR Chairman not happy -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52875186

"I am absolutely stunned by this announcement," 

"Incredibly, there has been absolutely no consultation with individual clubs nor with the Championship doctors' working group by the divisional representatives - or anyone else in the Football League - regarding this matter," Hoos told the QPR website.

"Having spoken with our director of football Les Ferdinand and our manager Mark Warburton, they share my views. We are vehemently opposed to this schedule."

The EFL - who have been contacted by the BBC for a response - said the 20 June date was "provisional" and "subject to the strict proviso that all safety requirements and government guidance is met".

"The players haven't even returned to full-contact training at this moment and yet they are now expected to be in a position to play at a competitive level in just three weeks' time," Hoos said.

"I have made our feelings known to the EFL and, having spoken with a number of CEOs at other Championship clubs, I am not a lone voice on this matter.

"We are absolutely appalled."

Edited June 1, 2020 by Mattyblue

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

QPR Chairman not happy -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52875186

"I am absolutely stunned by this announcement," 

"Incredibly, there has been absolutely no consultation with individual clubs nor with the Championship doctors' working group by the divisional representatives - or anyone else in the Football League - regarding this matter," Hoos told the QPR website.

"Having spoken with our director of football Les Ferdinand and our manager Mark Warburton, they share my views. We are vehemently opposed to this schedule."

The EFL - who have been contacted by the BBC for a response - said the 20 June date was "provisional" and "subject to the strict proviso that all safety requirements and government guidance is met".

"The players haven't even returned to full-contact training at this moment and yet they are now expected to be in a position to play at a competitive level in just three weeks' time," Hoos said.

"I have made our feelings known to the EFL and, having spoken with a number of CEOs at other Championship clubs, I am not a lone voice on this matter.

"We are absolutely appalled."

This Blake's manager Mark Warburton was on the radio a couple of weeks ago and he was equally vehemently opposed to the season not being finished on the pitch and all the talk of scrapping the season. 

Maybe they should speak to one another and make their mind up.

[Mattyblue]

Though the lack of communication nicely sums up the inept EFL

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

Surely if we get to March 2021 the best thing to do is wait a few months further and just start again from 2021/22 season, scrapping the 2020/21 season in it's entirety and leaving the 19/20 season where it is/giving Liverpool the title?

To play a season with the number 19 in it, in 2021 is just baffling to me. It's pointless IMO.

If you leave this season as it is or scrap it then you also scrap prizes and punishments. You don't do 2/3 or 3/4 of a season then stop and award trophies and titles because 'Liverpool deserve it'. You only deserve a title or relegation over a full season. So either the full season has to be finished or no prizes are awarded. It matters not that a club is 2 or 20 points clear. If the season can't finish then trophies can't be given out. Harsh maybe but no more so than on Leeds, WBA, Coventry or Crewe who would all suffer the same (or should suffer the same, if a sensible, fair and uniform approach was being adopted across English football.

Instead we've ended up with every man for himself, a farcical situation where some divisions are returning, some have been abandoned, some don't know and promotion/relegation all over the place.

This was a job for the FA to intervene and put their feet down and decide what was happening across the board. As ever they've left it to individual clubs and competitions to decide whilst shirking their responsibilities and now we've a right mess unfolding. 

They clearly think they can safely/effectively finish the season behind closed doors (it won't be behind closed doors, because they've already estimated needing a minimum of 300 people there to enable the game to go ahead - can anyone out there explain to me how you get to 300 essential people from 2 teams of 11, subs and coaching/medical staff?)

I also don't believe for one minute that the PL has managed to avoid any infections and has announced 0 positive tests whilst the Championship has announced numerous. What are the chances of that happening? I suspect they are trying to railroad clubs and players into resuming asap because those subscriptions need renewing and Sky are losing viewers. Clear from the QPR announcement today that clubs are barely being consulted on this and are being cajoled or forced into things they aren't particularly comfortable with.

For me the most sensible approach would be to effectively close football down for 12 months, put it on ice with a view to having normality in time for the 2021-22 season. If it can come back sooner then just have regional divisions or cup competitions to pass the time. 

 

[RevidgeBlue]

4 hours ago, Stuart said:

You seem worried about the financial impact but only for less than half of league clubs. The financial impact is worse for L1/L2 but they can’t afford to invest in weekly testing. PL and Championship clubs facing financial ruin are the ones who have been living beyond their means for years. Why do they deserve saving more? Let a Man Utd or an Arsenal go pop rather than a Fylde or other.

I'm sure we've covered this ground umpteen times already.

It's obviously far more important for Leagues 1 and 2 to get back to football with fans in the ground as normal as quickly as possible.. If that can't occur within a reasonable time frame,  it's difficult to see how they can survive unless:

1) The Premier League bailed them out - not guaranteed as the PL Clubs have enough problems of their own. However at least if they get their own houses in order by fulfilling fixtures they might be in a slightly better position to assist the lower Leagues financially.

2) The TV Companies give Leagues 1 and 2 TV deals to show all the games live which would replace the Gate and matchday revenue. This may be unlikely as the TV Companies might not consider the demand to be there.

3) The Government bail them out. This is probably unlikely as if they did that every other Business in the Country in trouble would wonder why they hadn't been bailed out too.

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, JHRover said:

For me the most sensible approach would be to effectively close football down for 12 months, put it on ice with a view to having normality in time for the 2021-22 season. If it can come back sooner then just have regional divisions or cup competitions to pass the time. 

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see a true Lancashire Senior Cup with all the first teams. Be a great occasion. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by JoeH

[roversfan99]

Plenty of stories perhaps casting doubt over a successful resumption of the football season in this country.

As @Mattyblue pointed out QPR are kicking off, Lee Bowyer was also complaining saying that 3 of his players including his best player Lyle Taylor arent willing to play.

Also, many teams want relegation to be removed:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11998347/premier-league-restart-up-to-10-clubs-want-relegation-scrapped-if-season-is-curtailed

If you remove relegation then it is even more going through the motions and you may aswell just null and void it.