Players that underachieved or what could have been

[Mattyblue]

That might say more about PNE and the players/standards they have...

[MarkBRFC]

With how far we have fallen to be fair, if Gallagher had been with us over the past decade, i'm sure he would be pretty close in our list too.

Edited May 14, 2020 by MarkBRFC

[G Somerset Rover]

On 11/05/2020 at 22:44, Amo said:

Absolutely. Rochina gets referred to derisively here as a "Carlos Kickaball" but there's no doubt the guy had talent. When he had a run in the Championship. his output was decent, and teams would double-mark him, freeing up space for other players.

Think he suffered from playing under too many conservative managers.

Agreed, Amo. A few months back I was watching an interview with him where the interviewer referenced people in Spain saying he was one of the best midfielders outside of the big 3 in La Liga - so he must still be playing fairly well! One of many during that era who were criminally used incorrectly - if barely at all.

[LeftWinger]

I'm amazed Dunn's name has only been fleetingly mentioned a couple of times on here.

I remember seeing him and Tugay against Lampard and Petit for Chelsea and thinking I'd much rather have our two.

Dunn was thought of as the new Gascoigne at one stage. I remember him scoring a cracking goal for England U21's (possibly against Holland) and being raved about by the national media.

He obviously did have injury problems, but I think he could have been top, top level. Should have had a long England career - he was that good.

[MarkBRFC]

24 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I'm amazed Dunn's name has only been fleetingly mentioned a couple of times on here.

I remember seeing him and Tugay against Lampard and Petit for Chelsea and thinking I'd much rather have our two.

Dunn was thought of as the new Gascoigne at one stage. I remember him scoring a cracking goal for England U21's (possibly against Holland) and being raved about by the national media.

He obviously did have injury problems, but I think he could have been top, top level. Should have had a long England career - he was that good.

I completely agree with this.

[simongarnerisgod]

dunnys england career was doomed from the start unfortunately,succesive england managers had an erection for lampard and gerrard in the middle of the pitch,to such an extent,even a world class player like scholes was shifted out to the flanks,simply no room for dunn especially as he did`nt play for one of the chosen few clubs,i agree he should have won more than 1 measly cap,but plenty of others who should have played for england got shafted as well,how many caps did heskey get??,i could name a dozen players who never got a cap while he was stumbling about the pitch in the guise of an international

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Agreed, Amo. A few months back I was watching an interview with him where the interviewer referenced people in Spain saying he was one of the best midfielders outside of the big 3 in La Liga - so he must still be playing fairly well! One of many during that era who were criminally used incorrectly - if barely at all.

To be honest he is similar to Josh King in terms of going on to play at a good level following his departute, indeed King much more consistently and impressively (but perhaps lacking quite the same glamour and intrigue for whatever reason) so I suppose it is understandable that people look back and think they were unfortunate but they both flattered to deceive in the main aside from the odd flash. Both were more gifted than Rhodes or Gestede but failed to show anything like similar output. Rochina would score a worldy or do a clever trick (I remember away at Yeovil people marvelled at a rabona shot he did when it was easily tipped over and indeed a normal shot or pass may have been wiser!) but for the following 6 games he would do nothing but frustrate and obviously that made the fact that he was unwilling to graft a big problem. And King was often injured and almost exclusively ineffective.

I am not saying that either benefitted from being at the club in perfect circumstances by any means but I dont think either made a particularly compelling case when they did play that they could feel hard done by. Rhodes consistently performed at that time and then Gestede when he came.

[roversfan99]

30 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

dunnys england career was doomed from the start unfortunately,succesive england managers had an erection for lampard and gerrard in the middle of the pitch,to such an extent,even a world class player like scholes was shifted out to the flanks,simply no room for dunn especially as he did`nt play for one of the chosen few clubs,i agree he should have won more than 1 measly cap,but plenty of others who should have played for england got shafted as well,how many caps did heskey get??,i could name a dozen players who never got a cap while he was stumbling about the pitch in the guise of an international

Im not saying that at that time England werent mis managed but the reason that Lampard and Gerrard were always in the team is because like Scholes they were all world class midfielders, as good as Dunn was he wasnt as good as them 3. Indeed out of the 3 I felt that Scholes was just about the best and should have played central but you can understand the desire to get them all in. Indeed Scholes retired not because he was played left where he said he did play on occasion for United but because he felt he underperformed.

Heskey certainly lingered a little too long but he was a perfect foil for Owen.

[Mr. E]

On 02/04/2020 at 18:44, Proudtobeblue&white said:

David Bentley had it all, should have stayed and had a glittering career, instead of moving back to the bright lights and the booze.

Yep. He was on his way toward becoming a Rovers and England legend, I genuinely thought that highly of him in that season he was carrying us on his back. Then he went for money and threw it all away.

[Mr. E]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

I'm amazed Dunn's name has only been fleetingly mentioned a couple of times on here.

I remember seeing him and Tugay against Lampard and Petit for Chelsea and thinking I'd much rather have our two.

Dunn was thought of as the new Gascoigne at one stage. I remember him scoring a cracking goal for England U21's (possibly against Holland) and being raved about by the national media.

He obviously did have injury problems, but I think he could have been top, top level. Should have had a long England career - he was that good.

I mean, he 'underachieved' for various reasons mentioned in terms of international career, but for us he achieved a great deal - promotion to the Premiership, a cup, Europe...not many have that on their Rovers resume. 

[LeftWinger]

19 minutes ago, Mr. E said:

I mean, he 'underachieved' for various reasons mentioned in terms of international career, but for us he achieved a great deal - promotion to the Premiership, a cup, Europe...not many have that on their Rovers resume. 

He scored 34 goals in 3 seasons for Rovers (00/01 in Division 1; 01/02 & 02/03 in the Premier League) - in 124 appearances - 0.274 goals per game.

In the subsequent 8 seasons after leaving he scored 10 goals in 140 appearances at 0.07 goals per game (7.5 seasons in the Premier League and 0.5 seasons in the Championship).

He then had a good season in 09/10 scoring 10 goals in 28 games - but other than that his goal output really dropped.

I remember the promotion season in division one with Jansen, Duff and Dunn as the crown jewels. He was outstanding that season. He had everything other than pace. He could score with both feet, his head, technically excellent, eye for a pass, great dribbler. He carried that on when we got back up to the Premier League as well.

I remember him telling a story how he was supposed to be going out for James Beattie's birthday after we had played Southampton away. We lost the game and Dunny went to a hotel to get ready for a night out. He looked at his phone and had a load of messages/missed calls off team mates, basically telling him to switch his phone off as Souness was after him. So he did just that. He got ready for his night out and as he was walking out the front of the hotel, the team coach was waiting for him. He was made to get on and drive back with the rest of the lads, as Souness had decided they all needed to go into training the next day. Half way home, the coach pulls over and Souness gets out and gets in a separate vehicle. Then Tony Parkes tells everyone on the coach they aren't in for training in the morning. Dunny knew his time at Rovers was up at that point.

[Blue blood]

On 13/05/2020 at 10:33, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Gallagher had all the skill and a really good football brain - as he's shown over the years- but he was lacking in the pace department. Not such a handicap in midfield but you need it up front. If he'd have had Hoilett's pace you would have had another Craig Bellamy.

 

17 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Yeah, but I thought Gallagher didn't really need pace, in the same way Sheringham or Cantona didn't. Not saying he was as good as them, just that his game was more about finding space and picking passes and making late runs.

It's s bit of an overused phrase but just seemed to me he didn't really want it that much. Dunn gets a lot of stick but he really worked hard to make it at Rovers. I dont think Gallaher did really unfortunately.

He must have done something right though - according to wiki "Gallagher was voted Preston North Ends player of the decade 2010–2019 by fans in January 2020.^[35]"

Think I am with you. He was such an intelligent footballer that you thought he would do much better in the game. Just like some player's pace or power carries them to a better career, I really thought his intelligence would do that. 

[Amo]

On 14/05/2020 at 12:55, LeftWinger said:

Dunn was thought of as the new Gascoigne at one stage.

That's exactly what Souness was afraid of.

I sometimes wonder if Souness was living a little vicariously through Dunny.

[DaveyB]

On 08/05/2020 at 23:55, Amo said:

Kevin Davies.

Pressure of the record signing fee, injuries and playing on Woy's sinking ship, scuppered his potential here.

 

I used to live across the road from Kevin - although not for too long, I moved in just after we'd been relegated and he'd bought the house after his move to Rovers, so then his mum and brother lived there after he left us to go back down to Southampton.
I remember the local pub landlord telling me once that Kevin had gone completely off the rails during that first season with us - basically the move to us had made him a millionaire overnight and, at 21, it had just messed with his head and thrown him off kilter. I also think that the fact things hadn't gone well at Rovers must have shattered his confidence - I remember, a couple of days after I had moved in, I was standing at the bus stop and could see him in his garden. He had a set of full size goalposts in his garden he and was standing about 10/12 yards back from them and was flicking the ball up and then volleying it at the goal. In the time I was stood watching he did it 7 times, but only 1 of his shots actually went in! I remember thinking that I would have backed myself to have had a better conversion rate.

 

Another player that comes to mind is Lee Makel - I remember seeing him play in a cup game back in about 94 or 95 (certainly when Kenny was still in charge), and he just ran the game. Both myself and my dad went away that day convinced that he was going to be the next big thing - but then he just disappeared and never really went on to do much as far as I know.

[Sparks Rover]

Sean Curry was a decent player if I remember correctly.....small and stocky.

[JPTSwindon]

On 13/05/2020 at 22:32, simongarnerisgod said:

the one i do remember who had prodigious talent was carlos villanueva,the chilean,not one to impress big sam though?

Yeah I remember there was a lot of excitement about him, but apart from a man of the match performance against Blythe Spartans in the FA Cup was never really given a chance.

Matt Derbyshire, seemed he’d finally get a chance on merit, then didn’t he get sent off pre-season (Plymouth) and was back to bit part and off away to Greece?

[Dreyski]

My only memory of Villanueva was him dribbling some Liverpool players in a 4-0 defeat with Samba up front.

Vogel and Basturk seemed to be Hughes and Allardyce's attempts to find the next Tugay, but lightning didn't strike twice.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, JPTSwindon said:

Yeah I remember there was a lot of excitement about him, but apart from a man of the match performance against Blythe Spartans in the FA Cup was never really given a chance.

Matt Derbyshire, seemed he’d finally get a chance on merit, then didn’t he get sent off pre-season (Plymouth) and was back to bit part and off away to Greece?

Derbyshire's cock up against City sealed his fate with Big Sam. Anybody that brain dead shouldn't have been playing Premier League football.

[speeeeeeedie]

In the what could have been category. I'm watching bits of Union Berlin v. Bayern Munich. 

If it wasn't for the Icelandic volcano eruption Rovers may have had a few years of Robert Lewandowski up front. 

[Amo]

4 hours ago, Dreyski said:

Vogel and Basturk seemed to be Hughes and Allardyce's attempts to find the next Tugay, but lightning didn't strike twice.

Vogel was an odd one. Played half a dozen games towards the end of 2007/2008 and looked good. Then he completely fell out of favour.

I put that down to Ince coming in, but Allardyce didn't rate him either.

[simongarnerisgod]

Derbyshire's cock up against City sealed his fate with Big Sam. Anybody that brain dead shouldn't have been playing Premier League football.

i`ll always hold derbyshire in high record for cooly finishing off newcastle at st james park in the last minute of a game they absolutely dominated,bentley lobbed it over their pushed up defence and matty drew the keeper and put it in the bottom corner!!!!!!!!!f*****k fantastic,the geordies were devasted?

[oldjamfan1]

13 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

Derbyshire's cock up against City sealed his fate with Big Sam. Anybody that brain dead shouldn't have been playing Premier League football.

i`ll always hold derbyshire in high record for cooly finishing off newcastle at st james park in the last minute of a game they absolutely dominated,bentley lobbed it over their pushed up defence and matty drew the keeper and put it in the bottom corner!!!!!!!!!f*****k fantastic,the geordies were devasted?

I was there that day - suffering from vertigo like all the other Rovers fans. I seem to remember Michael Owen missing a few chances for them but the buzz when the winner went in was fantastic!

[JacknOry]

Speaking of goals against the Geordies, who was that young striker (think he was geordie too) that got a goal against them? Think it was back when Shearer was injured.

Edit* Found him myself. Graham Fenton. Yes he was Geordie and he scored two goals against Newcastle. Shearer was not injured, he set both goals up.

So to conclude, two Geordies conspired to cost Newcastle the title.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/graham-fenton-famous-double-strike-4039474

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by JacknOry

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Speaking of goals against the Geordies, who was that young striker (think he was geordie too) that got a goal against them? Think it was back when Shearer was injured.

Edit* Found him myself. Graham Fenton. Yes he was Geordie and he scored two goals against Newcastle. Shearer was not injured, he set both goals up.

So to conclude, two Geordies conspired to cost Newcastle the title.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/graham-fenton-famous-double-strike-4039474

 

That must have been the high point of his career. He just faded out after that.

[hollowsr]

In last 9 games of that season Fenton scored 6 goals including those two against Newcastle. 

If England hadn't such a great amount of strikers at the time he'd have made a late push for the squad ?