Who will be the next Rovers prospect to make a ‘big’ move?

[davulsukur]

Just now, Vinjay said:

The same types who defended Steve Kean and showed nothing but contempt for Jack Walker while he was alive and after his death? I wouldn't give a toss.

Probably those guys yeah but pretty much everyone else as well.

[Vinjay]

6 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Probably those guys yeah but pretty much everyone else as well.

He's bullied countless people and banned them. Many would enjoy seeing someone like that get a taste of their own medicine. Many people would be attracted to a club that is edgier and no nonsense. Kids in the area would see it as cool. That's the type of market that could be tapped (not in the way Ferguson often tapped)

Edited May 10, 2020 by Vinjay

[davulsukur]

3 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

He's bullied countless people and banned them. Many would enjoy seeing someone like that get a taste of their own medicine. Many people would be attracted to a club that is edgier and no nonsense. Kids in the area would see it as cool. That's the type of market that could be tapped (not in the way Ferguson often tapped)

Whether you like it or not SAF will be remembered (and currently is anyway) as the greatest premier league manager of all time.

Of course he will have bullied people, its probably one of the things that brought him all his success. 

Let's not pretend the rest of the footballing world is whiter than white, that sort of s**t will have gone on at plenty of clubs by plenty of managers.

I don't see why kids would find it cool, why would they? What's cool about it? It's confusing because we haven't had any rivalry with him or Utd for 25 years.

You only think it's cool because you hate Utd (and him)

 

[Vinjay]

Jack Walker was 10000 times the man he is on his worst day. People need to know that. If that's what it took to drum that point across so be it.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Vinjay

[davulsukur]

Just now, Vinjay said:

Jack Walker was 10000 times the man he is on his worst day. People need to know that.

But kicking him out of Ewood doesn't send that message.

Anyway, this thread has derailed enough.

[Oldgregg86]

Jack walker is a wonderful man and the best thing ever to happen to rovers and the town but let’s not pretend he made 300 million by being nice to everyone vinjay. 

[Vinjay]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

Jack walker is a wonderful man and the best thing ever to happen to rovers and the town but let’s not pretend he made 300 million by being nice to everyone vinjay. 

...and when did he ever bully or use crass language? He fired a few managers justifiably and no doubt fired some employees during his business career as well. That's not being horrible to people. If anything Jack was too nice whereas his family (and likes of Ferguson) are the absolute opposite.

Anyway I didn't mean to take the thread off topic (I was only responding with a question for someone else) and given it's only page 2 plenty of time to get it back on track. I won't prevent that.

[chaddyrovers]

Armstrong and Nyambe then Travis and Lenihan. 

[neophox]

Sorry forgot Armstrong..

[oldjamfan1]

21 hours ago, Vinjay said:

...and when did he ever bully or use crass language? He fired a few managers justifiably and no doubt fired some employees during his business career as well. That's not being horrible to people. If anything Jack was too nice whereas his family (and likes of Ferguson) are the absolute opposite.

Anyway I didn't mean to take the thread off topic (I was only responding with a question for someone else) and given it's only page 2 plenty of time to get it back on track. I won't prevent that.

How on earth do you know whether Jack's hiring and firing was always justified? You don't get to where Jack got to in business without being a ruthless bastard. And he was just that. One person's 'ruthless' is another person's 'bully'.

Yes I love 'Uncle Jack' the benefactor for what he did for Rovers, but I knew plenty of people who worked for him and couldn't abide him, including Rovers fans. That's life, things aren't always as black and white or cut and dried as they seem. I've heard enough stories about Alex Ferguson around Glasgow to know that he has a very generous side to him as well. 

Anyway back to the topic, if anyone is going to get us big money soon it is likely to be Lenihan.

[Vinjay]

3 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

How on earth do you know whether Jack's hiring and firing was always justified? You don't get to where Jack got to in business without being a ruthless bastard. And he was just that. One person's 'ruthless' is another person's 'bully'.

Yes I love 'Uncle Jack' the benefactor for what he did for Rovers, but I knew plenty of people who worked for him and couldn't abide him, including Rovers fans. That's life, things aren't always as black and white or cut and dried as they seem. I've heard enough stories about Alex Ferguson around Glasgow to know that he has a very generous side to him as well. 

So who are they? Genuinely I've not heard one person speak negatively of Jack in his roles at Walkersteel, Flybe, etc. There were strike pickets outside Walkersteel at one point but they didn't even work for him!

Being around Glasgow I guess you have heard the stories about Jock Stein? An even worse bully who didn't even tell a player that his wife had suffered a miscarriage. Claims he covered up numerous cases of child abuse. Ferguson considered him a friend, worked as his Scotland assistant and no doubt patterned some of his bullying nature after him. That's the type of lowlife he associated with. You wouldn't hear Celtic fans say a bad word about Stein (which perhaps says more about them) but Rovers fans of course are very unique.

If Jack was a ruthless bastard he would have fired Don Mackay the second he walked in the door. He only gave him the opportunity out of kindness. Kidd would have been fired after relegation. I was disappointed by Hodgson's firing but looking back you can't defend most of his signings. 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Vinjay

[oldjamfan1]

3 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

So who are they? Genuinely I've not heard one person speak negatively of Jack in his roles at Walkersteel, Flybe, etc. There were strike pickets outside Walkersteel at one point but they didn't even work for him!

Being around Glasgow I guess you have heard the stories about Jock Stein? An even worse bully who didn't even tell a player that his wife had suffered a miscarriage. Claims he covered up numerous cases of child abuse. Ferguson considered him a friend, worked as his Scotland assistant and no doubt patterned some of his bullying nature after him. That's the type of lowlife he associated with. You wouldn't hear Celtic fans say a bad word about Stein (which perhaps says more about them) but Rovers fans of course are very unique.

If Jack was a ruthless bastard he would have fired Don Mackay the second he walked in the door. He only gave him the opportunity out of kindness. Kidd would have been fired after relegation. I was disappointed by Hodgson's firing but looking back you can't defend most of his signings. 

 

Vinjay, I'm hardly going to start naming people on here but suffice to say that an immediate relative of mine was a very senior manager at Walkersteel for 25 years. Believe me, Jack was a ruthless bastard of a businessman when he needed to be. And on occasions when he didn't need to be, too.

Jock Stein? You think Shankly, Clough, Revie etc etc etc (the list from that era is almost endless) weren't also bullies (by modern standards). It has become obvious that Stein turned a blind eye to some seriously wrong things that were happening in the shadows of Celtic Football Club in the 70s early 80s as well. None of which is relevant to what we are discussing, really.

Going back  to the Walkers - One of the reasons Jack is 'well regarded' by many is because he played the good cop to Fred's bad cop. And if you think he didn't approve of or was unaware of any brutal decisions then you're even more naive than you come across. 

Without wishing to totally derail the thread, the notion of "Jack Walker = good guy, his family = a bad lot" is a twisted distortion of the actual truth, which as ever will be somewhere in the middle.

The only general thing about them I would say is that pots of money inevitably causes trouble and bad behaviour somewhere along the way, whoever you are.

 

[JacknOry]

Jack Walker, FFP, SAF and Utd - All buzz words that should not be mentioned unless you want to read rants from Vinjay

[Vinjay]

Why shouldn't I call it FUP or refuse to call Ferguson "sir"? If you were on a Liverpool forum would you question people who refer to the S*n or the Scum? The Liverpool Echo even call it the former! 

[K-Hod]

39 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

Why shouldn't I call it FUP or refuse to call Ferguson "sir"? If you were on a Liverpool forum would you question people who refer to the S*n or the Scum? The Liverpool Echo even call it the former! 

Do what you want mate.

Probs not worth spending too much time thinking about though.

[oldjamfan1]

50 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

Why shouldn't I call it FUP or refuse to call Ferguson "sir"? If you were on a Liverpool forum would you question people who refer to the S*n or the Scum? The Liverpool Echo even call it the former! 

Just as a matter of interest would you not recognise any knighted person as 'sir' or do you just decide on the Vinjay scale whether the award was warranted or not. I fundamentally disagree with the awards system myself  (though it has improved in the last 20 years) but that said I do use it when referring to knighted people (Sir Kenny Dalglish, Sir Ian Botham, Sir Nick Faldo, Sir Andy Murray and yes, SAF, to name but a few sports ones) because whether I like it or not, that is their title.

[Amo]

2 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Just as a matter of interest would you not recognise any knighted person as 'sir' or do you just decide on the Vinjay scale whether the award was warranted or not. I fundamentally disagree with the awards system myself  (though it has improved in the last 20 years) but that said I do use it when referring to knighted people (Sir Kenny Dalglish, Sir Ian Botham, Sir Nick Faldo, Sir Andy Murray and yes, SAF, to name but a few sports ones) because whether I like it or not, that is their title.

Even Sir James Savile? ?

[oldjamfan1]

Just now, Amo said:

Even Sir James Savile? ?

There are always exceptions, and my repulsion for him is obviously not remotely linked to his knighthood. 

I don't remember being especially outraged when he was made a knight, to be honest (other than my general disagreement with the honours system). Anyway I think its a fair bet that he would have had his knighthood taken away had he been alive when the shit hit the fan. 

Vinjay's intolerance of Ferguson and the Jimmy Savile example aren't really the same, but I guess you knew that anyway

[Amo]

1 minute ago, oldjamfan1 said:

There are always exceptions, and my repulsion for him is obviously not remotely linked to his knighthood. 

I don't remember being especially outraged when he was made a knight, to be honest (other than my general disagreement with the honours system). Anyway I think its a fair bet that he would have had his knighthood taken away had he been alive when the shit hit the fan. 

Vinjay's intolerance of Ferguson and the Jimmy Savile example aren't really the same, but I guess you knew that anyway

To be fair, it's not the Middle Ages anymore. I don't think anyone should be obligated to honour those titles, especially when knighthoods like Savile's make a mockery of the whole system.

[oldjamfan1]

1 minute ago, Amo said:

To be fair, it's not the Middle Ages anymore. I don't think anyone should be obligated to honour those titles, especially when knighthoods like Savile's make a mockery of the whole system.

Couldn't agree more - I was just curious to determine whether Vinjay felt like that too or whether he was just unable to bring himself to use the prefix with Fergie. 

[rigger]

21 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Couldn't agree more - I was just curious to determine whether Vinjay felt like that too or whether he was just unable to bring himself to use the prefix with Fergie. 

He wouldn’t be much good in the military as every male of officer rank is called sir.

Edited May 12, 2020 by rigger

[Vinjay]

On 12/05/2020 at 14:04, oldjamfan1 said:

Couldn't agree more - I was just curious to determine whether Vinjay felt like that too or whether he was just unable to bring himself to use the prefix with Fergie. 

I'm not pro monarchy so it wouldn't make sense to acknowledge knighthoods. Not against the UK but would prefer if it was renamed the Union Republic. I don't care what his prefix is. Once again I bring up Liverpool Echo referring to the S*n, etc. If you insist on using a prefix how about "Slur Alex" which fits his reputation as a vulgar, crass person.

What about the women's team who were denied a promotion because of United? What about the transfer ban Rovers got because of corrupt rules influenced by UEFA and United? There would have been countless reasons to kick the man out.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Vinjay

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, Vinjay said:

I'm not pro monarchy so it wouldn't make sense to acknowledge knighthoods. Not against the UK but would prefer if it was renamed the Union Republic. I don't care what his prefix is. Once again I bring up Liverpool Echo referring to the S*n, etc. If you insist on using a prefix how about "Slur Alex" which fits his reputation as a vulgar, crass person.

What about the women's team who were denied a promotion because of United? What about the transfer ban Rovers got because of corrupt rules influenced by UEFA and United? There would have been countless reasons to kick the man out.

Problem is though, even though he had definitely been a bit of a dick over the years, it’s fair to say he mellowed in his later years of management. 
He is also the most successful manager in English football history, so chances are, he will be remembered as such. He’s definitely not worth obsessing over this much after the event, in any case.

[Gav]

On 11/05/2020 at 14:09, oldjamfan1 said:

An immediate relative of mine was a very senior manager at Walkersteel for 25 years. Believe me, Jack was a ruthless bastard of a businessman when he needed to be. And on occasions when he didn't need to be, too.

 

Several of my family worked at Walkersteel for years, they all hated Jack Walker with a passion and I don't use the word hate lightly. 

They mellowed over the years, all massive Rovers fans, but they never let me forget what a bastard he was, as you say OJF, even when he didn't have to be. 

Just to keep things on topic - Lenihan has all the tools to make it at the highest level, but the clocks ticking, he needs to build on his obvious potential soon or he'll miss the boat.

[Vinjay]

4 hours ago, Gav said:

Several of my family worked at Walkersteel for years, they all hated Jack Walker with a passion and I don't use the word hate lightly. 

They mellowed over the years, all massive Rovers fans, but they never let me forget what a bastard he was, as you say OJF, even when he didn't have to be. 

Just to keep things on topic - Lenihan has all the tools to make it at the highest level, but the clocks ticking, he needs to build on his obvious potential soon or he'll miss the boat.

Can't choose your family can you? Something you and Jack have in common. 

Any stories about Ronnie Clayton being an unpleasant scumbag? Peter White being a white supremacist? 

Nobody has ever said anything about Jack like this on the forum before. Seems strange that it's coming up now all as an excuse to defend a lowlife like Ferguson. Why don't you give some specific examples it's not like I'm asking for names and national insurance numbers. Not that I would agree with it anyway but at least try to back it up. The most negative thing I could ever say about Jack is that he was too nice. This ruthless bastard you're making him out to be would have fired Mackay the second he walked in the door. He would have got rid of several others too and I'm not talking about the players that were sold.

Sure someone might bring up his tax exile status. One of the reasons he moved to Jersey was so he could safeguard his employees jobs whom he was so horrible towards. What about the workers who were loyal to the point they broke pickets from their own union members (but not Jack's employees)? Yeah he was an awful, dreadful man. ?. Even Ferguson with his media stooges can't cover up his bullying nature. You can't cover up any such stories with Jack because they don't exist. Your relatives must have confused him with Fred. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Vinjay