Season Restart

[JHRover]

All clubs are going to have to be very careful over the coming months to try and keep their core support on side or risk a horrific decline in attendances when this period finally passes.

Looking at the Rovers season ticket holder demographic you will have a lot of people in there who will be financially harmed by the virus and lockdown - people who would benefit from 50 or 60 quid back from their season tickets - and who might be unwilling or unable to cough up £350 for another season ticket and simply not renew.

You'll have a chunk of people who will get out of matchday habits. If this goes on for many more months people will just realise they are quite content with not going to watch football, habits have changed and once you go down that road it becomes so difficult to get them back into it again.

Then you've the supporters in the higher risk category, significant in numbers, who even if football resumes will think twice about putting themselves at additional risk by going to a crowded football match.

We aren't in good shape crowd wise as it is. We need to do everything to keep those here happy and give them a reason and incentive to return when this is over.

Another chunk of cash to watch boring 2nd division football isnt enough.

Unfortunately Waggott as ever is more concerned about short term balance sheets and cash flow as that is what he will be employed on. Whether he knows it or not he's running a steamroller through an already delicate situation. 

I expect the results to be horrendous.

Then he will question loyalty and commitment.

[Mattyblue]

I noticed there was a Fans Forum yesterday, hopefully he was made aware of the very precarious position we will find ourselves in fanbase wise if this is handled wrongly... but I doubt it. The importance of re-stocking player photos in the club shop and concourse shelving I imagine took precedence.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, MarkBRFC said:

Have to admit this made me laugh. How on earth do you get through life Chaddy?!

very easily Mark. Most Emails and letters are a waste of time. Non important. If it an important letter then of course I read it properly. is the letter form Rovers an important?

[Ozz]

9 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

Quick phone call to Rovers ..definetely NO refunds.. "trying our best to recover as quick as possible " (at this moment in time anyway)

Mentioned the fact Two householders having season tickets ..told ..the situation doesnt suit everyone and they appreciate that .. although myself and my son can have different iFollow codes to watch on different devices  

phone no. 01254 372000 if anyone wants to ring themselves ..

This is a development .....

[tomphil]

I understand the clubs situation there's a monumental hole in the cash flow now. Next seasons budget probably doesn't kick in until July after their summer traipse to India to get it signed off. 

However it's still bonkers when you consider how much V's pour in to VLL every year, puzzling in fact.

Edited June 11, 2020 by tomphil

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Hang on? I thought the ticket office were working really hard to ensure YOU WILL GET A REFUND?

These quotes say that unlike most clubs there won’t be any refunds, instead going for the ‘are you committed?’, ‘stand with us’, guilt trip line. Anyone would think we were owned by the local butcher, not billionaires.

‘During this unprecedented period, we are urging Rovers fans to stand with us and show their support, as we work towards a successful end to the season and a brighter future for everyone connected to the club.

Rovers would like to reassure supporters that the effects of the Coronavirus on our community are of the upmost concern to everyone at the club and we appreciate that fans and their families will have been presented with financial challenges as a result. We also appreciate your understanding of the financial issues the club have and are currently facing, as a result of being unable to host supporters inside Ewood Park. Refunding supporters would come at a significant financial cost to the club, at a time when our revenues have reduced to zero, and would have a serious detrimental effect on the club’s operations going forward. We therefore believe the best value solution for both supporters and the club is providing season ticket holders with free access to all of the remaining live streamed games. In order to safeguard the future of the club, we would ask supporters to stand with us and not request cash refunds, which will ensure the club remains on the strongest financial footing possible in order to work towards our collective goals as #OneRoversTogether.

 

I’ll watch the steams, and I personally wouldn’t have asked for a refund anyway. However, at least half of ST holders wont be interested in a stream, because they aren’t tech savvy, elderly or simply as they paid to watch live football in Ewood Park, not an internet stream.

Of course, social media will be alive with ‘great move Rovers’, ‘get behind the club’, ‘can’t believe anybody would ask for a refund’ (many of them who won’t even be ST holders)

But in the real world, many ST holders will be bemused and if they expect anywhere near 9,000 people to renew next season (or whenever fans are allowed back) in the midst of a global depression with a fanbase out of the habit of attending, without any discount to acknowledge the loyalty and good faith of the fanbase who have ‘stood together’ with the club, then they are in line for a rude awakening, as history tells us Rovers fans show their dissatisfaction by quietly withdrawing their wallets at renewal time.

 

Just when you think Waggott has a chance to prove what kind of individual he is...

...he does so.

 

It wasn’t that long ago we were asked to believe that Mowbray had to convince Venkys to keep their money in their pocket as they were desperate to fund success, now they are playing pauper over ST refund requests.

Cash cows is all us fans are to the current regime.

Question though, in these desperate times requiring commitment: has a single first team player or board member taken a pay cut?

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

All clubs are going to have to be very careful over the coming months to try and keep their core support on side or risk a horrific decline in attendances when this period finally passes.

Looking at the Rovers season ticket holder demographic you will have a lot of people in there who will be financially harmed by the virus and lockdown - people who would benefit from 50 or 60 quid back from their season tickets - and who might be unwilling or unable to cough up £350 for another season ticket and simply not renew.

You'll have a chunk of people who will get out of matchday habits. If this goes on for many more months people will just realise they are quite content with not going to watch football, habits have changed and once you go down that road it becomes so difficult to get them back into it again.

Then you've the supporters in the higher risk category, significant in numbers, who even if football resumes will think twice about putting themselves at additional risk by going to a crowded football match.

We aren't in good shape crowd wise as it is. We need to do everything to keep those here happy and give them a reason and incentive to return when this is over.

Another chunk of cash to watch boring 2nd division football isnt enough.

Unfortunately Waggott as ever is more concerned about short term balance sheets and cash flow as that is what he will be employed on. Whether he knows it or not he's running a steamroller through an already delicate situation. 

I expect the results to be horrendous.

Then he will question loyalty and commitment.

What happened when the club treated fans with similar disdain with FA Cup final tickets?

Fans only returned when Jack Walker got involved.

In FFP world Jack Walker would not be allowed to revolutionise the club to do so again.

Waggott Out.

[RevidgeBlue]

6 hours ago, laughatthedingles said:

They are allowing refunds, if you don’t like the offer take your money. Would you not watch each game?

They haven't said specifically they are allowing refunds, they have only said that they would prefer it if people didn't take them. They've then attempted to guilt trip everyone with the "We won't have enough money to be competitive if everyone asks for a refund" line.

We know all this and I would never have dreamed of asking for a refund personally.  However there will be some who would have preferred a refund and I think this is absolutely atrocious customer service from the Club.

They should have offered a range of options similar to Derby and specifically acknowledged that they realised some supporters would still want a refund and that any such requests would be met by a prompt no quibble response.

We don't know yet either whether any actual requests for refunds will be met with a prompt cheery response, a refusal or a protracted dragging out which will be like getting blood out of a stone. Either of the latter two would be absolutely disastrous for Club/fan relations.

You really do wonder what Waggott does to justify his salary. Any old mug could just sit there and test the loyalty of an ever dwindling hardcore by charging them the maximum they think they can get away with. Actually trying to entice more fans into the ground requires a bit more ingenuity and thought. Actions speak louder than words and the longer he is here the less impressed you become whether it is in the form of yet another disastrous transfer window or unimaginative interaction with the fanbase.

Edited June 11, 2020 by RevidgeBlue

[PeteJD13]

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Blame PeteJD.

He’ll cling on to ‘But Lyndsay Talbot said...’ for dear life for the next 6 months 

 

Oh look ⬇️ 

Don’t blame me I’m only passing on what was said ?

Edited June 11, 2020 by PeteJD13

[PeteJD13]

4 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

I think we all feel that way - The club has lost it's soul.

I email the club regularly and get the same response every time - we will look into it. Then nothing..

Or the I’ll pass those comments on....

[Crimpshrine]

4 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

  Actually trying to entice more fans into the ground requires a bit more ingenuity and thought. Actions speak louder than words and the longer he is here the less impressed you become whether it is in the form of yet another disastrous transfer window or unimaginative interaction with the fanbase.

Give hime some credit for 'pie and a pint' at £7.50 !

What a bargain that is - especially after you have been fined £3.00 because you didn't buy a match ticket in advance.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, Crimpshrine said:

Give hime some credit for 'pie and a pint' at £7.50 !

What a bargain that is - especially after you have been fined £3.00 because you didn't buy a match ticket in advance.

I'm not as offended by the £3 matchday surcharge as most. I understand the argument it is unnecessary and that t might discourage floating fans and I wouldn't object to it being removed. Overall though my view would be that if you really object to paying that extra £3, buy your ticket in advance. For those who genuinely don't know until the day whether they can attend, then if you're put off by paying an extra £3 then you probably weren't that bothered about going in the first place.

However £7.50 for a (crap) pie and a pint and then advertising it as an unbeatable offer we as fans should be falling all over ourselves to get - do me a favour it's like sticking 2 fingers up at everyone.

[JHRover]

I wonder if Waggott has discussed this policy with the owners or instead has pursued it on his own. I wonder because if he is being judged on reducing the burden on the owners it perhaps then indicates why he hasn't gone cap in hand to them to refund supporters, as it would earn him no credit upstairs actually probably the opposite. 

It seems he gets brownie points for avoiding using their money so probably feels entirely justified in taking this approach.

Like with everything at Rovers these days it's all about the short term rather than one eye on the long term state of the club.

[Doogs]

Well paid for 4 games that I dont get to see...Not interested in I follow...Would have preferred a small discount on next season's season ticket. But mind made up now. I shan't bother and save 300 quid...

Edited June 11, 2020 by Doogs

[chaddyrovers]

Match report including line up and who played in the game 

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2020/june/report-liverpool-6-rovers-0/

[Stuart]

11 minutes ago, Doogs said:

Well paid for 4 games that I dont get to see...Not interested in I follow...Would have preferred a small discount on next season's season ticket. But mind made up now. I shan't bother and save 300 quid...

I think a lot will feel similar.

Everything he has done to date is about short term gain. Pennies now over pounds later.

The sad thing is that eventually Waggott will leave to another six figure job and we may be left with nothing.

[OldEwoodBlue]

The refund situation is not a case of Vs putting up the cash or not.

We are already in the FFP hole to £15 million before the virus came along.

Refunds to 9000 fans would just make it a whole lot worse. We already had to refund a bucket load of cash to corporate bookings for the Leeds game.

We are replacing the leavers with free transfers or academy players / making do with the left overs.

Waggott told me 17 teams in the Champ have the benefactor model and all are severely restricted by FFP.

Promotion is the ONLY way out of the mess.

Unless there is a temporary rule change, we are already lined up for FFP sanctions due to deferring wages.

Then it gets worse if the £15 million hole isn't plugged before the next accounts get published. 3rd year of the cycle and we are basically fucked if we dont get promoted THIS SEASON.

[RevidgeBlue]

42 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Match report including line up and who played in the game 

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2020/june/report-liverpool-6-rovers-0/

Not very encouraging.

The "Liverpool are ahead of us in their preparation line" is a bit thin when they only start 3 days before us.

11 subs and Chapman still couldn't get on. What must he be thinking?

[arbitro]

40 minutes ago, Doogs said:

Well paid for 4 games that I dont get to see...Not interested in I follow...Would have preferred a small discount on next season's season ticket. But mind made up now. I shan't bother and save 300 quid...

You should email Waggott and let him know why you won't be buying a season ticket when they are on sale again. The more people that write to him to raise objections and point out the potential consequences the better. The best email address is [email protected] . Lynsey is the Supporter Liaison Manager. You could mark it fao Steve Waggott.

[arbitro]

Smallwood and Mulgrew got some game time today against Liverpool.

Very strange.

[HowieFive0]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

They haven't said specifically they are allowing refunds, they have only said that they would prefer it if people didn't take them. They've then attempted to guilt trip everyone with the "We won't have enough money to be competitive if everyone asks for a refund" line.

We know all this and I would never have dreamed of asking for a refund personally.  However there will be some who would have preferred a refund and I think this is absolutely atrocious customer service from the Club.

They should have offered a range of options similar to Derby and specifically acknowledged that they realised some supporters would still want a refund and that any such requests would be met by a prompt no quibble response.

We don't know yet either whether any actual requests for refunds will be met with a prompt cheery response, a refusal or a protracted dragging out which will be like getting blood out of a stone. Either of the latter two would be absolutely disastrous for Club/fan relations.

You really do wonder what Waggott does to justify his salary. Any old mug could just sit there and test the loyalty of an ever dwindling hardcore by charging them the maximum they think they can get away with. Actually trying to entice more fans into the ground requires a bit more ingenuity and thought. Actions speak louder than words and the longer he is here the less impressed you become whether it is in the form of yet another disastrous transfer window or unimaginative interaction with the fanbase.

Well at 4-23pm today ..i got a prompt apologetic response off the nice lady at Rovers that there will be no refunds for my sons Adult ST with two of us from the same household not requiring iFollow.

Now whether they relent if theres a mass cry for refunds ..but like you and many more i wont personally be seeking a refund...although thats not theissue here .a refund should be on the table for those ..for whatever reason ..require it.

 

[Cherry Blue]

Surprised to see Smallwood had half an hour when he hasn't played all season. Positives for me are Holtby and Evans back and I'm pleased to see Mulgrew is still in there.

[OldEwoodBlue]

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

You should email Waggott and let him know why you won't be buying a season ticket when they are on sale again. The more people that write to him to raise objections and point out the potential consequences the better. The best email address is [email protected] . Lynsey is the Supporter Liaison Manager. You could mark it fao Steve Waggott.

We simply don't have the money.

I also got a Final Four but its now an investment in my club.

Not interested in an ifollow pass as got it free already on IPTV. However I also won't request a refund.

No ST holders should be asking for refunds IMO. 

[JHRover]

FFP really is the excuse that keeps on giving at Rovers.

People seem to forget that numerous rival clubs have already confirmed refunds will be given to their fans. How do they afford it? 

Leeds are doing it despite having far more tickets to refund at far greater expense. Their owner has his head screwed on though.

The likelihood is that FFP rules will go out the window or at least on ice for the foreseeable with the chaos Covid will bring to clubs and budgets.

Even if it doesn't the cost of refunding 8000 paying ST holders is a drop in the ocean compared to our losses and wage bill. 

Not that guilty clubs are punished anyway. Whatever happened to Derby and Sheffield Wednesday? The same Derby now refunding their 20,000 or so season ticket holders. Good job they dont hide behind FFP excuses and tell their fans to forget about refunds.

[J*B]

7 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

The refund situation is not a case of Vs putting up the cash or not.

We are already in the FFP hole to £15 million before the virus came along.

Refunds to 9000 fans would just make it a whole lot worse. We already had to refund a bucket load of cash to corporate bookings for the Leeds game.

We are replacing the leavers with free transfers or academy players / making do with the left overs.

Waggott told me 17 teams in the Champ have the benefactor model and all are severely restricted by FFP.

Promotion is the ONLY way out of the mess.

Unless there is a temporary rule change, we are already lined up for FFP sanctions due to deferring wages.

Then it gets worse if the £15 million hole isn't plugged before the next accounts get published. 3rd year of the cycle and we are basically fucked if we dont get promoted THIS SEASON.

Remember when I was rubbished for saying Dack was due to leave in January? Suddenly there’s a 15m pound hole in the accounts. 
 

I’ll go against the grain here, as I did on Twitter. I think the club have very little choice and have given a decent solution. I suspect a large majority of ST holders would have taken the £50 refund regardless of whether they needed it or not. Of course, I feel desperately for the people that have lost their jobs because of COVID, £50 would make a big difference. It half of the ST holders applied for a refund (which I think is UNDER estimating how many would) it would cost the club £200,000. The people that would suffer are the front line staff. Ticket sellers, food kiosks, corporate hospitality - all redundant. It’s not ideal. It’s not the fans fault. It’s also not the clubs fault. 
 

Someone asked about iFollow. It’s usually pretty decent. The broadcast is poor - it’s nothing like a Sky production, but I’ve watched circa 15 games on iFollow without any problems.