Season Restart

[OldEwoodBlue]

Probably not concerned about next season's ST sales as they know there won't be any to sell.

 

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

It’s not about the owners. It’s about the losses. We are at the FFP limit. We can not afford to lose the X amount a ticket refund would cost. Our finances are on a knife edge and they’re already losing significantly through loss of away tickets, hospitality and match day income which they have included in their revenue predictions for the year. The owners cannot just cover the bill.

All the senior management have agreed to wage deferrals and ultimately agreed to short term deductions if necessary. 

FFP didn't bother the owners when we were spending £12m on two duds or giving Mulgrew a new three year deal or paying Gladwin to use our facilities. I could go on about squandered money but now, because the club has once again made a mess of something simple the supporters are going to be the ones who tip us over the P&S cliff. Are they trying to put anybody who wants a refund on a guilt trip? The senior management, even with their deferrals or deductions will be on significantly more money that the vast majority of fans. And you know what, they don't even pay to watch the games like we do.

As I said earlier I was happy to forsake my money and I'm not interested in watching football on a laptop but I won't be taken for granted by the club.

[J*B]

56 minutes ago, Paul said:

Just one comment on next season and deferred refunds etc. My expectation is next season will be so short for ST holders in the ground that +/- £50 deferred refund against a new ST would mean the majority pay little more than another £30-50 - I don't have the inclination to work it out exactly.

We won't be back at Ewood before March 1st 2021.

I do think they should be offering two options here - either the balance off next years ST, or the iFollow option. 

41 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You said he was off to WBA didnt you? After Wigan game you posted it didnt you? 

Yes I asked how good was the quality and could it cope with fans demands..

Is their replays and commentators? 

Yes there’s replays, usually from a single angle and there’s the iFollow commentators you get if you listen to just the audio on iFollow. 
 

@JHRover @roversfan99 I get you guys are unhappy and I’ve often criticised this club. You are probably right. Ive been told from a couple of ‘insider’ sources just how close to the FFP transfer ban we are - and we no longer have the Dack trump card. It’s tough. I don’t think they can afford to hand out the refunds. 

[arbitro]

At the Supporter Meeting I'm sure Cheston said we would be FFP compliant. A lot has happened since then but surely the possibility of going over the threshold doesn't depend on giving refunds.

[JHRover]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

I do think they should be offering two options here - either the balance off next years ST, or the iFollow option. 

Yes there’s replays, usually from a single angle and there’s the iFollow commentators you get if you listen to just the audio on iFollow. 
 

@JHRover @roversfan99 I get you guys are unhappy and I’ve often criticised this club. You are probably right. Ive been told from a couple of ‘insider’ sources just how close to the FFP transfer ban we are - and we no longer have the Dack trump card. It’s tough. I don’t think they can afford to hand out the refunds. 

I agree, my suspicion is that all the season ticket money has already been spent and accounted for. The only chance of a refund scenario would be if Waggott went cap in hand to the owners and asked one of them to cough up the cash to allow that to happen. I don't think anyone at Rovers, certainly not Waggott, would have the balls at this moment in time to ring the owners up and ask for such a thing. It is less hassle just to tell fans they aren't having it and ride out any negative reaction.

As I said earlier, I don't expect any mutiny on the terraces about it. There will be grumbles online and a few complaints going in but most will either just accept it or give up altogether and disappear from Ewood. A fair few will be unhappy but end up going back anyway (myself probably one), a fair few more will probably stop due to the virus irrespective of this but I also think some will simply see this as another reason not to return at a time we cannot be upsetting those fans we have left.

I honestly fear for the future of our support base and I don't think the owners or their representatives have the slightest interest or understanding of how decisions like these can upset people and how people remember these sort of things when deciding whether to renew. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by JHRover

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, J*B said:

 

Yes there’s replays, usually from a single angle and there’s the iFollow commentators you get if you listen to just the audio on iFollow. 
 

 

Ive been told from a couple of ‘insider’ sources just how close to the FFP transfer ban we are - and we no longer have the Dack trump card. It’s tough. I don’t think they can afford to hand out the refunds. 

Thanks for reply JB

If we are that close to FFP transfer ban then the summer transfer business will be free transfers and loan. 

If we get a big bid for any of our players they will be gone. 

Could FFP rules be relax for a season? 

[rigger]

For me the lack of a refund has little or no bearing on renewing my season ticket. The wording of today’s statement may.

[J*B]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks for reply JB

If we are that close to FFP transfer ban then the summer transfer business will be free transfers and loan. 

If we get a big bid for any of our players they will be gone. 

Could FFP rules be relax for a season? 

Well, we will see a lot of high expenditure leave this season both in expensive loans (Tosin, Walton) and expensive players (Graham, Mulgrew) so there should be some scope to bring low fees in. It’s not a case of the owners not having money. They’ve loads of it. It’s that we’re right on the borderline of the FFP rules and don’t bring a lot of money into the club as fans. Our ticket sales are already a massive hamper to us. 

[Mattyblue]

And who’s to blame for that?

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, J*B said:

Well, we will see a lot of high expenditure leave this season both in expensive loans (Tosin, Walton) and expensive players (Graham, Mulgrew) so there should be some scope to bring low fees in. It’s not a case of the owners not having money. They’ve loads of it. It’s that we’re right on the borderline of the FFP rules and don’t bring a lot of money into the club as fans. Our ticket sales are already a massive hamper to us. 

Are we having a picnic

[J*B]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

And who’s to blame for that?

They are. They gambled on us either going up or being able to sell Dack for big money. We are unlikely to now do either and finances have been stretched even further due to a global pandemic. Not many businesses where properly prepared for COVID. 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, J*B said:

Well, we will see a lot of high expenditure leave this season both in expensive loans (Tosin, Walton) and expensive players (Graham, Mulgrew) so there should be some scope to bring low fees in. It’s not a case of the owners not having money. They’ve loads of it. It’s that we’re right on the borderline of the FFP rules and don’t bring a lot of money into the club as fans. Our ticket sales are already a massive hamper to us. 

Thanks for the reply JB.

I just wonder if the EFL would relax the FFP rules for a season or 2 to help clubs through this time. Guess we see in the future  

[roversfan99]

18 minutes ago, J*B said:

I do think they should be offering two options here - either the balance off next years ST, or the iFollow option. 

Yes there’s replays, usually from a single angle and there’s the iFollow commentators you get if you listen to just the audio on iFollow. 
 

@JHRover @roversfan99 I get you guys are unhappy and I’ve often criticised this club. You are probably right. Ive been told from a couple of ‘insider’ sources just how close to the FFP transfer ban we are - and we no longer have the Dack trump card. It’s tough. I don’t think they can afford to hand out the refunds. 

But they wouldnt have to be handed out now, only when the income is coming back in again so that argument holds no weight. And even then, the net effect of refunds requested against season ticket holders lost could go either way.

There is also the potential for FFP to be temporarily removed.

To be fair you have acknowledged that a deferred refund should be an option anyway.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

If that's true then they should just say that. Personally I don't believe it. We have extremely wealthy owners and players who don't play on mega money not too mention Waggotts handsome salary. I would have forsaken the refund for the two season tickets I pay for until I saw the communication today. To play the sympathy card to try and keep people's money is a low blow. It's almost like they are forgetting that some fans have been on a reduced income for three months and in some cases list their jobs.

I will be writing to the club tomorrow asking for a refund.

Agreed. If you really can't afford to give a refund, be honest and up front about it and say you can't afford it, it's on you, and you're most deeply sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

Don't be sneaky about it and put the supporters on a guilt trip and try to shift the blame and insinuate that whether we remain competitive or not going forward hinges on whether or not you demand a refund. Which of course is complete and utter cobblers.

Ironically, if we'd have done "a Derby" and looked like they were being magnanimous and offered a full range of options they'd have kept fan dissatisfaction and requests for refunds to a minimum.

By doing it like this, not admitting we're actually in a lot of financial trouble if that is indeed the case, but not offering a lot of refund either and stating it's purely a matter of supporters' conscience, we've probably guaranteed the maximum possible number of requests for refunds and subsequent non renewals if there's any prevaricating thereafter.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, J*B said:

It’s not about the owners. It’s about the losses. We are at the FFP limit. We can not afford to lose the X amount a ticket refund would cost. Our finances are on a knife edge and they’re already losing significantly through loss of away tickets, hospitality and match day income which they have included in their revenue predictions for the year. The owners cannot just cover the bill.

All the senior management have agreed to wage deferrals and ultimately agreed to short term deductions if necessary. 

I'm not sure I follow this line of argument. 

Firstly, I'd be astounded if the Authorities didn't temporarily relax FFP to allow for losses caused by the Pandemic. It would be unbelievably harsh not to.

Secondly doesn't FFP run on a rolling 3 year basis whereby you can lose £39m in that period? It would have to be a very specific and unfortunate cut off point for a few refunds to make the difference between us going over or being compliant with FFP.

Let's say we have to give back 3k refunds. (If we'd handled it better and "done a Derby" I'd bet the numbers would have been in the hundreds) Even at 3k refunds you're only talking sub 200 k which I know is a lot if you've not got it but surely that could be saved somewhere on next year's budget and if you piss a ST holder off,  for the sake of that £60 refund, you'll probably lose a £350 renewal and the year after and the year after that etc etc.

[RevidgeBlue]

4 hours ago, JHRover said:

I wonder if Waggott has discussed this policy with the owners or instead has pursued it on his own. I wonder because if he is being judged on reducing the burden on the owners it perhaps then indicates why he hasn't gone cap in hand to them to refund supporters, as it would earn him no credit upstairs actually probably the opposite. 

It seems he gets brownie points for avoiding using their money so probably feels entirely justified in taking this approach.

Like with everything at Rovers these days it's all about the short term rather than one eye on the long term state of the club.

I did wonder about this, but from the opposite perspective, whether he had made the decision off his own batt and the owners might actually be upset with him about it.

Whilst Rovers seem to be a very expensive filly where the V's are concerned, they do still have experiences of running much larger concerns than us and you might have thought that they'd raise concerns about losing core customers in the long run over a relatively trivial refund.

[perthblue02]

4 hours ago, Stuart said:

Why are we worrying about the fitness of Smallwood and Mulgrew? Very odd that they are involved at this stage.

First thought was it might be a case of preparing for a worse case scenario, one or two players come down with the virus once games commence, so will need all players to have a reasonable level of fitness if called on. Giving a run out to those who are a bit behind after the fitness checks ? 

Edited June 12, 2020 by perthblue02

[roversfan99]

I noticed that Bell was not involved, is it me being hopefully optimistic thinking that maybe with contract soon to expire that he has refused to play and will be leaving ala Lyle Taylor? 

Then again, Williams isnt out of contract and was also missing so maybe not.

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, perthblue02 said:

First thought was it might be a case of preparing for a worse case scenario, one or two players come down with the virus once games commence, so will need all players to have a reasonable level of fitness if called on. Giving a run out to those who are a bit behind after the fitness checks ? 

Surely if one or two players get COVID they need to all isolate? Especially when there is the concept of false negatives? Otherwise it is just allowing football to be a breeding ground.

Anywho... I’d rather have a couple of youth players over Smallwood and Mulgrew.

[arbitro]

6 hours ago, perthblue02 said:

First thought was it might be a case of preparing for a worse case scenario, one or two players come down with the virus once games commence, so will need all players to have a reasonable level of fitness if called on. Giving a run out to those who are a bit behind after the fitness checks ? 

That might be the case but if Smallwood plays beyond June 30th he will have to have a new deal albeit short term. And that will add insult to injury in light of the clubs absolute reluctance to offer refunds to season ticket holders for missed games.

[tomphil]

Tony will put players first it's why he's so popular with them in fact some seem to please themselves what they do. Smallwood falls into that category he's been allowed to just sit on his contract and collect his wages. Disgusting really, i expect TM will instruct Waggot to hand out short term deals to anyone who wants one so they don't go short whilst getting 'fixed up'.

[Mattyblue]

It just shows why the modern game turns the stomach of so many.

Smallwood has wasted a season of his career sitting out the last year of a juicy contract, the Gladwin oddity, Mulgrew being paid big money to not play...yet a narrative is being painted by a well remunerated executive carpet bagger that it’s a small discount/refund on STs to fans that have dedicated decades of time and money to the club could lead to its demise!

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Stuart said:

Why are we worrying about the fitness of Smallwood and Mulgrew? Very odd that they are involved at this stage.

I agree on Smallwood, but Mulgrew is our player for another year, will need him available for if the worst ever happened, or to be able to try and sell him. But yeah, Smallwood should be moved along.

I do wonder though about Amari'i Bells no-show. I wonder whether he is being released and in a similar way to Lyle Taylor has asked not to play so he isn't injured come the window? Very odd for him to not be included whilst clearly fit from training pictures and reports.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I noticed that Bell was not involved, is it me being hopefully optimistic thinking that maybe with contract soon to expire that he has refused to play and will be leaving ala Lyle Taylor? 

Then again, Williams isnt out of contract and was also missing so maybe not.

Yes, hadn't seen this but just spoke about that. I feel like that is a likely possibility.