Season Restart

[Dreams of 1995]

23 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

For fans hoping for a refund or struggling financially from the Fans forum minutes

 

Nah, not buying it. Sorry.

I had a quick look through my tender list for work. During the Covid-19 lockdown I helped to secure over £10m worth of groundworks schemes, £3.5m brickwork scheme and a £1.2m ground remediation contract. I did this by remote working, zoom meetings, Microsoft Teams and generally a bit of endeavour from everyone. If a small construction surveying firm based in Shropshire can do that 'remotely' why can't business mogul Waggot and multi-national business moguls Venkys not sit down and discuss budgets? It's bullshit. Another excuse for why we will be once again behind the curve.

As for the refund the club should be making it much easier to recieve a refund if required. There's no reason to wait 10 - 14 days, nor is there a reason for the customer to be approaching the producer for their money back. They should be making the process as easy and quick as possible because, for all of their financial difficulties, the man on the street is facing more.

[Mattyblue]

It was Ewood Spark formerly of this parish that came up with the cardboard cut outs idea, I see.

I suppose inanimate objects can’t tremble  

[only2garners]

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

It was Ewood Spark formerly of this parish that came up with the cardboard cut outs idea, I see.

I suppose inanimate objects can’t tremble  

No it wasn't Matty. He asked about branded masks and someone else asked about the cut-outs. But in truth both are lines being offered by many other clubs anyway - the questions were more about whether Rovers would be selling what others already are, rather than new ideas.

Apologies for not responding to a question you asked me several pages ago about the minutes - at the time they were not completely agreed. In fact we have been talking to the club for a few weeks about the detail of what any offers would be and it clearly was getting tangled up with the discussions between clubs. I'm as disappointed as others that there is not a clearer statement about the availability fo refunds for anyone who needs them for financial reasons but the wording on the minutes does specifically say that those fans will be able to contact the club to discuss options. How that will work out I don't know but at least we got a commitment from them.

We did talk about options for next season but in reality given that no one knows when that might start, what form it might take and at what point fans can get into the ground to watch games any detailed talk about options would be just empty air.

[Mattyblue]

I don’t think getting a steer on club thinking on next season would be ‘empty air’ at all.

Didn’t need to be any kind of firm commitment at this stage obviously, but just an acknowledgement that the club realises that they could be staring down the barrel of mass non renewals if they fail to recognise that ifollow does not satisfy a large chunk of the ST base, couple that with an incoming severe recession and fans simply getting out of the habit and we are looking at a perfect storm (perhaps the mood music coming from Waggott did give the impression that he understood this potential critical issue but it just wasn’t minuted).

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Mattyblue

[RevidgeBlue]

It looks like the next item for discussion on the agenda at the FF was Rovers branded face masks. Cracking idea. At the very least it should be possible to do one in blue and white halves.

What was the response?

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It looks like the next item for discussion on the agenda at the FF was Rovers branded face masks. Cracking idea. At the very least it should be possible to do one in blue and white halves.

What was the response?

We'll try and time their release for the same week as a vaccine goes into production.

I'm afraid the minutes of the forum and the club statement from earlier this week just don't tally.

The club statement is clear that refunds are not being offered, it goes as far as it can to tell people not to bother even thinking about them and attempts to guilt trip fans thinking of doing so into keeping quiet. 

Now in these minutes Waggott 'hopes' that the 'majority' would 'accept this' and plans a message to be released once all the codes have been sent out. Presumably therefore those who redeem their codes are in effect accepting the alternative and are waiving their right to a refund, and Waggott hopes the number left over who can't/won't use I Follow and still seek recompense will be very small in number.

I'm still not sure why if businesses small and large around the country and world can continue to operate remotely that the billionaire heads of an international conglomerate can't use Teams to tell their very well paid CEO what is happening.

You'd think they would want kits and tickets on sale NOW to bring some much needed cash in. Yet here we are, club shop still shut, still getting rid of the left overs at £30 a time. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by JHRover

[Parsonblue]

Looking at those minutes it suggests that until January 2021, at least, games are going to continue to be played behind closed doors.  Will be interesting to see how they price the i-follow ticket for a half-season and how many they are able to sell.    

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

For fans hoping for a refund or struggling financially from the Fans forum minutes

 

Just had a proper read of the notes of the FF meeting and,  potentially, the more I read it the more appalled I am.

I really hope Waggott doesn't send out another communication advising fans that refunds are a matter of "financial hardship" and that if you want one you've got to contact the Club pleading your case.

Refunds should be available to anyone who wants one regardless of status, and regardless of the reason they want one, no questions asked, but obviously if you get one you don't get the I follow.

I'm sure we've all been in the position at some point where we've had to contact our creditors to negotiate a temporary arrangement regarding a debt but it's pretty embarrassing having to explain why you're in difficulty, and not the most pleasant experience.

I think it really will be the final straw for most fans if they have to go begging cap in hand to the Club for a relatively small refund.

[JHRover]

Having read Waggott's comments in the Forum the more things start to make sense.

I had questioned the legality of the club refusing refunds on season tickets and I suspect if anyone pushed it hard and long enough they would succeed. Obviously not worth the hassle for the sake of 50 to 60 quid back but I'm pretty sure the club would struggle to win.

I think Waggott and his fellow Chairmen/CEO'S know this as they will have had expensive advice on the subject and as such we see slippery schemes unfolding like these. Most other clubs just accept their responsibilities and offer the refund as an option to be discouraged but reach a middle ground of a discount on renewals. Sadly Waggott doesn't have the authority to do such things so we take the middle road and annoy a lot of people without even an incentive to look forward to. 

So instead we get a poor and nasty statement effectively trying to convince the masses that 9 games on I Follow in exchange for 4 proper matches is a good deal, more than adequate and that anyone who seeks money back is in the wrong and putting the club at risk. The sort of language that would normally strike fear into any true, loyal caring fan of a football club. Shameful, in my opinion, using such language and effectively emotional blackmail.

It all leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth about the way the club sees and treats its supporters. Waggott in his ivory tower will think he's acted entirely correctly and congratulate himself. Think he might be in for a shock when renewal time comes round.

Edited June 16, 2020 by JHRover

[Stuart]

47 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We'll try and time their release for the same week as a vaccine goes into production.

I'm afraid the minutes of the forum and the club statement from earlier this week just don't tally.

The club statement is clear that refunds are not being offered, it goes as far as it can to tell people not to bother even thinking about them and attempts to guilt trip fans thinking of doing so into keeping quiet. 

Now in these minutes Waggott 'hopes' that the 'majority' would 'accept this' and plans a message to be released once all the codes have been sent out. Presumably therefore those who redeem their codes are in effect accepting the alternative and are waiving their right to a refund, and Waggott hopes the number left over who can't/won't use I Follow and still seek recompense will be very small in number.

I'm still not sure why if businesses small and large around the country and world can continue to operate remotely that the billionaire heads of an international conglomerate can't use Teams to tell their very well paid CEO what is happening.

You'd think they would want kits and tickets on sale NOW to bring some much needed cash in. Yet here we are, club shop still shut, still getting rid of the left overs at £30 a time. 

British Airways are doing the exact same thing with flights. They are giving people the impression that only credit notes (vouchers) can be applied for but as soon as you do, you give up your right to a refund.

The difference is BA are doing this with customers while Rovers are doing it to their most loyal supporters (ST holders).

Treating people with utter contempt. I wonder why most other clubs haven’t done it the way Rovers have. Maybe they want to keep their fans? ??‍♂️ 

[RevidgeBlue]

10 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Having read Waggott's comments in the Forum the more things start to make sense.

I had questioned the legality of the club refusing refunds on season tickets and I suspect if anyone pushed it hard and long enough they would succeed. Obviously not worth the hassle for the sake of 50 to 60 quid back but I'm pretty sure the club would struggle to win.

I think Waggott and his fellow Chairmen/CEO'S know this as they will have had expensive advice on the subject and as such we see slippery schemes unfolding like these. Most other clubs just accept their responsibilities and offer the refund as an option to be discouraged but reach a middle ground of a discount on renewals. Sadly Waggott doesn't have the authority to do such things so we take the middle road and annoy a lot of people without even an incentive to look forward to. 

So instead we get a poor and nasty statement effectively trying to convince the masses that 9 games on I Follow in exchange for 4 proper matches is a good deal, more than adequate and that anyone who seeks money back is in the wrong and putting the club at risk. The sort of language that would normally strike fear into any true, loyal caring fan of a football club. Shameful, in my opinion, using such language and effectively emotional blackmail.

It all leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth about the way the club sees and treats its supporters. Waggott in his ivory tower will think he's acted entirely correctly and congratulate himself. Think he might be in for a shock when renewal time comes round.

Difficult to disagree but as Dreams of 1995 said I'm not sure the "Waggott has no authority" line washes in the current climate as Businesses in general have had to adapt the way they work during the Pandemic and it would have taken a matter of minutes for him to speak to the owners by video link.

Edited June 16, 2020 by RevidgeBlue

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I suppose his personal opinion isnt of that much value overall but interesting to see him suggest than supporters in stadiums "might happen optimistically in October, realistically in January and pessimistically not until the 2021/22 season." Suppose he is covering all bases, if worst case scenario comes to fruition, the football league will be in smithereens. Optimistically would be basically next season onwards. 

Depends what the government is saying. He seeing the same news and as us. Oxford university said last week that the UK population could be vaccinated by Christmas. 

Look like the season wont start until October anyway if the season wont finish until Mid August. 

[Mattyblue]

Christmas?! 

What happened to September? Slackers 

[chaddyrovers]

15 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Christmas?! 

What happened to September? Slackers 

No one said everyone would vaccinated by September tho. 

Here is the latest comments from Prof John Bell from Oxford university 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-frei/coronavirus-vaccine-could-be-in-uk-by-christmas/

Edited June 16, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[Tom]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Just had a proper read of the notes of the FF meeting and,  potentially, the more I read it the more appalled I am.

I really hope Waggott doesn't send out another communication advising fans that refunds are a matter of "financial hardship" and that if you want one you've got to contact the Club pleading your case.

Refunds should be available to anyone who wants one regardless of status, and regardless of the reason they want one, no questions asked, but obviously if you get one you don't get the I follow.

I'm sure we've all been in the position at some point where we've had to contact our creditors to negotiate a temporary arrangement regarding a debt but it's pretty embarrassing having to explain why you're in difficulty, and not the most pleasant experience.

I think it really will be the final straw for most fans if they have to go begging cap in hand to the Club for a relatively small refund.

I’m with you there Rev

It feels like people who need to ask for refunds are going be feel a level of shame in doing so, it should be no questions asked

A holiday we had was cancelled, travel republic sent an email with a form saying the default is a credit note but if we prefer a refund then tick this box, that was it and that’s all that needed to be done here

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Depends what the government is saying. He seeing the same news and as us. Oxford university said last week that the UK population could be vaccinated by Christmas. 

Look like the season wont start until October anyway if the season wont finish until Mid August. 

Any pre season should be reduced, they’ve had a long break now so they don’t need as long as normal after 9 games 

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, Tom said:

Any pre season should be reduced, they’ve had a long break now so they don’t need as long as normal after 9 games 

Agreed. I Would imagine Players will got 2 or 3 weeks off then 3 or 4 pre season weeks of pre season training 

No Comment on on next season start date yet from PL or FA or EFL. 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Tom said:

I’m with you there Rev

It feels like people who need to ask for refunds are going be feel a level of shame in doing so, it should be no questions asked

A holiday we had was cancelled, travel republic sent an email with a form saying the default is a credit note but if we prefer a refund then tick this box, that was it and that’s all that needed to be done here

Any pre season should be reduced, they’ve had a long break now so they don’t need as long as normal after 9 games 

I suppose the new season start date is a fine balance. I agree that they shouldnt need as long in terms of recovery but I suppose the primary purpose is to prepare for the following season. But I guess a primary consideration should be the situation regarding the pandemic because maybe it would be better to delay the season by a month and try and have as little BCD as possible. But youve also got to consider not starting too far on because it will already be starting late. Difficult one. I suspect that none of next season will be in front of full stadiums, maybe part will be in front of partially full stadiums.

[OldEwoodBlue]

9 minutes ago, Tom said:

Any pre season should be reduced, they’ve had a long break now so they don’t need as long as normal after 9 games 

Players and staff probably want and expect family holidays just like fans Tom. It's only their job.

[OldEwoodBlue]

Watched Bremen v Bayern.

Thought it was enjoyable. Crowd noise pumped in so was actually better than a real crowd where often its quiet.

Think it depends a bit on the camera angles at the stadium as well. Bremen was the same camera position as we have at Rovers, in that you hardly see the stands so didn't matter they were empty.

There was green netting all around to stop balls going in the stands. Not sure if all grounds are having this? Looked a bit odd sometimes on close ups.

 

Villareal had different camera positions where you could always see the stands.

They had the whole stadium full of cardboard fans so looked OK. Presume club paid for them as it was 100% attendance. Expect Rovers will have about a hundred spaced 4 seats apart.

 

[OldEwoodBlue]

47 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 Look like the season wont start until October anyway if the season wont finish until Mid August. 

Agreed.

After the season finishes early August (play off final is 2nd Aug I think) there is the FA cup, Europa league & Champions league all scheduled for mid August.

Think the Champions league Final is 23rd Aug.

Then 3 weeks holday followed by pre-season.

The longer they wait the more chance of having some fans back inside. October sounds right to me.

 

The big unknown is if the virus has seasonality and in January we are back to square 1.

[Tom]

23 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Players and staff probably want and expect family holidays just like fans Tom. It's only their job.

No issue with that but just saying it doesn’t need to be as long as normal

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

I’m with you there Rev

It feels like people who need to ask for refunds are going be feel a level of shame in doing so, it should be no questions asked

A holiday we had was cancelled, travel republic sent an email with a form saying the default is a credit note but if we prefer a refund then tick this box, that was it and that’s all that needed to be done here

 

Yep.

And we haven't even offered the credit note either.

(Yet)

But even now its feeling like any concessions will only be given if enough people complain and the Club are shamed into offering something.

[RevidgeBlue]

Not sure if I'm moaning for the sake of it but I just logged in to Rovers.co.uk  to find out what I need to do to get the I follow only to discover I have already apparently missed a deadline of 6p.m. Tuesday to take the necessary steps and having read the article I'm not really that much wiser as to what I should have done in the first place.

Anyone else in the same boat?

 

[Ossydave]

3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not sure if I'm moaning for the sake of it but I just logged in to Rovers.co.uk  to find out what I need to do to get the I follow only to discover I have already apparently missed a deadline of 6p.m. Tuesday to take the necessary steps and having read the article I'm not really that much wiser as to what I should have done in the first place.

Anyone else in the same boat?

 

The club tweeted a reminder yesterday and my initial thought was that I bet a lot of people miss the deadline. I haven't bothered reading much about the ifollow thing as I don't need it, so no idea how clear they made that part. I mean it makes sense to have that deadline so that everyone can have their account setup in time but still. I think they, quite wrongly, presume everyones in Twitter, Facebook and whatever else these days as they rely on it a lot.

 

 

[Stuart]

This just sounds dodgier and dodgier. Just when you think think they can’t stoop any lower.

I guess this deadline will just add to the number of people out of pocket and demanding refunds and/or not renewing in future.

“Stick with us through these unprecedented times” even though we won’t stick with you.