Bristol City (H) - Saturday 20th June - 3pm KO

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The "badly advised" line is the biggest cop out and avoidance of responsibility you could wish to see. It doesnt wash, the buck falls with them.

I too find the blowing of smoke up their arse simply because they havent upped sticks (as if its that simple) very difficult to stomach and certainly not recent to be thankful.

Anybody can be " badly advised " once but this lot have made a career of it. If I had more time I'd compile a list of all the terrible business decisions they've made at Ewood. It'd be a very long list spanning a lot of years.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

44 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Wow! You make it sound like we sold the club to a bunch of 5 year olds.

These are (supposedly) intelligent business people, they should have done there research before buying the club.

They came into it trying to make a fast buck in my opinion, and it's backfire horribly.

Venkys are to blame for everything that has happened to the club in the last decade, and are the main reason why the club will never achieve anything to that level ever again.

We might have been better off selling it to a bunch of 5 year olds.

[Blue blood]

7 minutes ago, dave birch said:

Well, front up to them and tell them to fuck off...

To use an analogy that's like saying someone badly beats you up and dangles you over a cliff but then for some reason doesn't let you go. Should in that case you tell them to f off? Should you be thankful? I'm sure we both know that the answer is neither. 

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Anybody can be " badly advised " once but this lot have made a career of it. If I had more time I'd compile a list of all the terrible business decisions they've made at Ewood. It'd be a very long list spanning a lot of years.

See this is what gets me. At what point did they stop being badly advised? I struggle to see when that might be. On relegation, after the 5 managers season, after Coyle - it's hard to tell because there are so many poor choices. 

In fact there are so many poor choices you wonder how much is deliberate. After all random chance should suggest they get more right than they have done. 

Finally I don't buy that we are out on our own yet either. our last 3 managers have all had the same agent/agency which to me suggests the real dark forces are still at work. Especially since all 3 had poor to mixed reputations. This again counters the narrative that the owners are doing a good job at present. 

[Waggy76]

53 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Wow! You make it sound like we sold the club to a bunch of 5 year olds.

These are (supposedly) intelligent business people, they should have done there research before buying the club.

They came into it trying to make a fast buck in my opinion, and it's backfire horribly.

Venkys are to blame for everything that has happened to the club in the last decade, and are the main reason why the club will never achieve anything to that level ever again.

Aided and abetted by other unscrupulous individuals ....

[Admiral Nelsen]

18 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

That said if they called it quits and walked away and we started free falling like Bolton I would still say one of the major benefits is we could hopefully get the club back under fan ownership, even of that meant bankruptcy and reconstituting the club. I wouldnt want that, but if it happened I would hardly be devastated either.

I won't pretend to have followed every twist and turn of the Bolton saga, but I think their case shows if anything how financial crises from poor owners doesn't necessarily empower fan groups to take over, even for a club with a reasonable fan base. There's always the chance that a Portsmouth-like situation could materialise, but I wouldn't be optimistic about that being the end result and would only even be possible after the club suffering a huge trauma beforehand. 

 

On Venkys, the biggest complement I can pay them and their behaviour over the last 3/4 years is that they have made it easy for fans to be pragmatic. They're not causing havoc by making bizarre recruitment decisions, and they're underwriting our massive losses. Forgiving or forgetting doesn't really matter in this context. They can just be tolerated/ignored as long as they're necessary and not casing additional harm to the club. 

[Blue blood]

I get what you are saying @Admiral Nelsen and in many ways agree - especially on the fact that at present they are necessary - but they are still doing harm. The hands off management is still causing chaos as in no accountability or evaluation of how TM is doing, not least in appointing his own boss, which can only harm the efficiency and effectiveness of the club. There's every indication the dark forces are still here and at work in the club and a transfer policy seemingly where we can't spend on the defence or keeper! There is harm going on, just not on the scale of before. 

That said I agree that their more backseat approach is causing less damage (not none though) then when they are hands on and is less of a sore reminder to fans of what they have done. I'll also grudgingly say they are necessary for now. Like the metaphors I've used, we need the life support machine, we need someone to not let go and drop us off the cliff. That said a necessity for now doesn't mean we should forget what they have done - and are doing. 

 

[arbitro]

47 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Spot on. That's like saying give credit to the person who provides our life support machine, when they were the ones who put us on it. Madness. 

Also I think I've been a tad negligent and missed the good owners time. In the last few years they have given us Coyle as manager (instead of Warnock), given Coyle a budget than an impoverished church mouse would be assumed of (a master class in how to make things worse) have not given any sort of challenge or accountability to TM, allowed TM to chose his own boss (I mean that's special in any area of life) and not communicated with the fans. Not my definition of good owners. 

Now granted that's not the initial levels of abuse they heaped upon the club but I'll say this. Such shoddy behaviour can only be considered good in light of the abuse before. In actuality it is still very poor. Do we praise the kid for mugging grannies instead of murdering them? Also using said analogy do we ignore the murders? I mean what they did to the club was horrific. They put us from a solid premiership club established in the top flight to a disfunctional debt ridden championship one and halved our fanbase. On that alone, such a game  changing, future-altering irredeemable transformation (cause there ain't any other benefactors to get us out of it) is criminal. It's literally altered Rovers fortunes for generations to come negatively. It's denied us years of premier league funds, the opportunities to build towards success, to be able to kind of compete with the big boys, to maybe win trophies (or at least have a better shot). We've gone from having a secure future financially to an uncertain debt written one.

Ok I get I am beginning to foam at the mouth but blimey, the fact I can list all these wrongs, that they have mucked up and given us all these consequences, shows how seriously they have shafted us. Outside of Stockholm syndrome I cannot think of any reason to be happy with them as owners or give them credit. 

 

 

That reminds me of the best analogy for the whole sorry mess I saw. They have put us on a life support machine and we have to be beholden to them because they are paying for the electricity to keep us alive.

Kind of sums up the mentality of some.

[oldjamfan1]

Going back to the game - I really enjoyed the match. I thought we controlled it for the most part - although in typical Rovers fashion we somehow managed to go 1-0 down from Bristol City's first foray into our penalty area but credit to the lads for coming back so quickly and so strongly, something that hasn't always been in evidence in recent years.

Tony got most of his decisions right, including picking Corry Evans. The lad was outstanding. Having suffered a very similar facial injury to his I know how much bottle it takes to come back from, and to do it with such class and tenacity was wonderful to see. I thought Travis was equally immense. Brereton made a right nuisance of himself and deserved a goal really, maybe a few crowd-less games will do the lad some good? JRC slotted in well at left back, though the pattern of play meant that their dangerous winger was limited in his ability to expose JRC, and of course the lad had a perfectly good goal chalked off.

Credit where credit is due, Bennett had a very decent game, he kept it simple and was a lot more effective for it. Good tactic to replace the front three on the hour, particularly with the introduction of Arma's pace and DG's guile. 

A very comfortable last 20 minutes, the game management was good again.

Finally, I thought the iFollow service was really good. I know it has had its knockers  and maybe the good performance and result is colouring my view, but the pictures were sharp and the commentary was very good too.

Bring on the pie-eaters!

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, dave birch said:

So, what's your option. Let's be in "severe strife"!

No doubt they regret their decision to buy into football, especially now.

It's not the Venkies you should be upset with, it's the people that sold to them, and those that advised Venkies to buy.

If you've ever had  or have a business, you always watch the cash, if it drops, you want to know why. This will be affecting their thinking , no doubt.

So, you would accept a club, without funds for the "clubs soul".

Clubs, at this level need funding, otherwise it's sayonara.

They own the club, the buck stops with them.

[Admiral Nelsen]

12 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I get what you are saying @Admiral Nelsen and in many ways agree - especially on the fact that at present they are necessary - but they are still doing harm. The hands off management is still causing chaos as in no accountability or evaluation of how TM is doing, not least in appointing his own boss, which can only harm the efficiency and effectiveness of the club. There's every indication the dark forces are still here and at work in the club and a transfer policy seemingly where we can't spend on the defence or keeper! There is harm going on, just not on the scale of before. 

That said I agree that their more backseat approach is causing less damage (not none though) then when they are hands on and is less of a sore reminder to fans of what they have done. I'll also grudgingly say they are necessary for now. Like the metaphors I've used, we need the life support machine, we need someone to not let go and drop us off the cliff. That said a necessity for now doesn't mean we should forget what they have done - and are doing. 

 

This is all fair, and if I gave the impression that I think there are no ongoing problems with their ownership, then that was a mistake.

The main point I wanted to make (which probably got lost slightly) was that fans are still entitled to feel however they like about Venkys, even if there has been a marked improvement in their contribution over the last few years. As others have alluded to, there were questions posed by Alan Myers some weeks ago about how fans would feel about Venkys coming to Ewood for games, and whilst most comments were balanced there was the odd statement along the lines of "imagine still being bitter about them after so much time etc." Personally, I'm happy to recognise their apparent improvement and focus on the team, but I really didn't like the attitude suggesting that fans who took a different view were being unreasonable. 

Basically, I think questions about whether they are 'forgiven' or not really miss the point and are not important - but at the same time the fact that their ownership isn't the dominant issue that it was a few years ago is partially a result of how they have been doing a better job of shutting up and writing cheques. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

26 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Tony got most of his decisions right, including picking Corry Evans. The lad was outstanding. Having suffered a very similar facial injury to his I know how much bottle it takes to come back from, and to do it with such class and tenacity was wonderful to see. I thought Travis was equally immense. Brereton made a right nuisance of himself and deserved a goal really, maybe a few crowd-less games will do the lad some good? JRC slotted in well at left back, though the pattern of play meant that their dangerous winger was limited in his ability to expose JRC, and of course the lad had a perfectly good goal chalked off.

Credit where credit is due, Bennett had a very decent game, he kept it simple and was a lot more effective for it. Good tactic to replace the front three on the hour, particularly with the introduction of Arma's pace and DG's guile. 

Agree with all of that, but I think Evans in particular has completely changed my opinion of him over the last season or two.

When we were relegated I was more than willing just to let him go for nothing. He clearly had some ability, but he seemed so passive in games and never seemed to really impose himself on the opposition and was a bit of a soft-touch who flattered to deceive. I (probably wrongly) got the impression that he wasn't as bothered as you need to be at this level, maybe not helped by his injury record and towards the end of the Bowyer-era I had made my mind up about him.

He is still a player with limitations, but his form under Mowbray has slowly but completely changed my opinion on both his ability and his attitude, and dominating the midfield (with the excellent Travis) was so impressive given his injury.

Pleased that you mention Bennett as well. He's no world beater who shouldn't get into our strongest side, but Saturday's performance shows that he's more than capable of contributing as a squad player.

[Blue blood]

2 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

This is all fair, and if I gave the impression that I think there are no ongoing problems with their ownership, then that was a mistake.

The main point I wanted to make (which probably got lost slightly) was that fans are still entitled to feel however they like about Venkys, even if there has been a marked improvement in their contribution over the last few years. As others have alluded to, there were questions posed by Alan Myers some weeks ago about how fans would feel about Venkys coming to Ewood for games, and whilst most comments were balanced there was the odd statement along the lines of "imagine still being bitter about them after so much time etc." Personally, I'm happy to recognise their apparent improvement and focus on the team, but I really didn't like the attitude suggesting that fans who took a different view were being unreasonable. 

Basically, I think questions about whether they are 'forgiven' or not really miss the point and are not important - but at the same time the fact that their ownership isn't the dominant issue that it was a few years ago is partially a result of how they have been doing a better job of shutting up and writing cheques. 

Thanks for a well thought out reply. I get what you are saying.

And here for me is the rub I think. I'm not sure that fans  who have "forgiven and forgotten" and have moved on, actually have any more than those holding onto their crimes. You see better is a comparative word, and whilst I agree with you they are doing a better job, they can only be seen as doing so by recognising what a horrific job they did.at the start. Venkys are currently beneficiaries of their past as it makes any actions now look like saints in comparison. 

The thing is, and this is key for me, is that better isn't the same as good. And independent of the past the current job they are doing isn't good. Passing up on Warnock, managers being appointed by an agency, just in a more subtle way, transfer funds not allowed for the defence, TM having too much power - it's a real mess.  It is miles better than it was but it cannot be seen asl good or something anyone could be happy with, or even vaguely positive about without a nod to their history. In the cold light of day we are still badly owned. 

The other thing is that their history, their past running cannot be seperated from the now. The halved crowds, the debt, the division we are in, the squad we have are all because of them and their history and past mistakes. We can talk about forgiving and forgetting but we can't actually do the latter because the implications of what they have done hit us in the face every day. We cannot erase the past and its impact on the present. We are where we are because of the past. The two are not inseperable. 

So yeah, whilst I agree things are better, that only works in comparative terms. The better is still nowhere near what I want for my club, and the past mistakes cannot be forgotten or relegated to the past as the consequences are lived out daily. 

As for forgiveness - I would agree that's less important, or is at least only important on a personal level. Whether I forgive them or not will not make them any less shambolic owners or improve our chances of success, or give them justice. It may make me more peaceful and I like the famous quote about unforgiveness being like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies; I don't think it helps us.

But either way, even if forgiven, it doesn't change what Venkys have and continue to do to destroy this club and leave us in the position we are in. 

[rigger]

Meanwhile, a good start to the new campaign. It may yet come when our destiny is in our own hands.

Edited June 22, 2020 by rigger

[JHRover]

3 hours ago, dave birch said:

Guys, It's about time that the Venkies were given a bit of credit.

OK it's not because they attend every game.

OK, they were misled, badly advised and took time to get things right.

From my point of view, it's because they are funding your passion that you should cut them some slack. They could have left six or seven years ago, saved themselves a lot of angst and money, but here we are, in 2020 still being funded by them.

Isn't it time to forgive and forget?

If not, point me in the direction of the next generation of multi millionaire benefactors that want to fund BRFC..

Finally, I was very critical of them initially, but time and circumstances have managed to change my mind.

Credit for what?

If I bought a house on the cheap, proceeded to run it into a derelict condition, never visit it, upset all the locals through my neglect, installed a succession of undesirable tenants I continued to at least pay the mortgage each month would I then expect the local community to thank me for it?

I dont think anyone expects them to come to games on a regular basis. Not many foreign owners do. But once every 9 years might be nice.

I'm sure if it's a choice between keep paying the bills or get the receivers in their advisors will be telling them to stick at it for now in the hope of a promotion.

I always find it funny that the people who award Venkys credit for sticking around and not leaving are the same who argue nobody else is out there who would buy BRFC. Perhaps the two are linked?

As we can now see, Venkys are potentially 11 games from promotion to the Premier League and the cash bonanza that comes with it. What have they done to potentially deliver that? Stumbled upon a decent manager prepared to compromise and work with their bizarre system. 

I suppose it depends on the individual whether you believe they've learned lessons and have become decent owners or are just as clueless and disinterested as ever, only underlings have been able to put something in place remotely workable despite them. 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Going back to the game - I really enjoyed the match. I thought we controlled it for the most part - although in typical Rovers fashion we somehow managed to go 1-0 down from Bristol City's first foray into our penalty area but credit to the lads for coming back so quickly and so strongly, something that hasn't always been in evidence in recent years.

Tony got most of his decisions right, including picking Corry Evans. The lad was outstanding. Having suffered a very similar facial injury to his I know how much bottle it takes to come back from, and to do it with such class and tenacity was wonderful to see. I thought Travis was equally immense. Brereton made a right nuisance of himself and deserved a goal really, maybe a few crowd-less games will do the lad some good? JRC slotted in well at left back, though the pattern of play meant that their dangerous winger was limited in his ability to expose JRC, and of course the lad had a perfectly good goal chalked off.

Credit where credit is due, Bennett had a very decent game, he kept it simple and was a lot more effective for it. Good tactic to replace the front three on the hour, particularly with the introduction of Arma's pace and DG's guile. 

A very comfortable last 20 minutes, the game management was good again.

Finally, I thought the iFollow service was really good. I know it has had its knockers  and maybe the good performance and result is colouring my view, but the pictures were sharp and the commentary was very good too.

Bring on the pie-eaters!

 

1 hour ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Agree with all of that, but I think Evans in particular has completely changed my opinion of him over the last season or two.

When we were relegated I was more than willing just to let him go for nothing. He clearly had some ability, but he seemed so passive in games and never seemed to really impose himself on the opposition and was a bit of a soft-touch who flattered to deceive. I (probably wrongly) got the impression that he wasn't as bothered as you need to be at this level, maybe not helped by his injury record and towards the end of the Bowyer-era I had made my mind up about him.

He is still a player with limitations, but his form under Mowbray has slowly but completely changed my opinion on both his ability and his attitude, and dominating the midfield (with the excellent Travis) was so impressive given his injury.

Pleased that you mention Bennett as well. He's no world beater who shouldn't get into our strongest side, but Saturday's performance shows that he's more than capable of contributing as a squad player.

57 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Agree with all of that, but I think Evans in particular has completely changed my opinion of him over the last season or two.

When we were relegated I was more than willing just to let him go for nothing. He clearly had some ability, but he seemed so passive in games and never seemed to really impose himself on the opposition and was a bit of a soft-touch who flattered to deceive. I (probably wrongly) got the impression that he wasn't as bothered as you need to be at this level, maybe not helped by his injury record and towards the end of the Bowyer-era I had made my mind up about him.

He is still a player with limitations, but his form under Mowbray has slowly but completely changed my opinion on both his ability and his attitude, and dominating the midfield (with the excellent Travis) was so impressive given his injury.

Pleased that you mention Bennett as well. He's no world beater who shouldn't get into our strongest side, but Saturday's performance shows that he's more than capable of contributing as a squad player.

Corry Evans really is a conundrum analysing his Rovers career and making any sense of it.

I think you would look at his midfield partners and see some correlation between his own form and the quality of his partner. His partnership with Travis has been by far the most successful, and their points per game record is very impressive. Throw Downing in next to them and you have a little bit of everything in there. He's had some really terrible partners in his time, players like Lowe, Akpan and Williamson who could barely pass a ball 5 yards, and then Danny Guthrie who didnt have close to the physical capability of playing in a Championship midfield 2, so whilst that doesnt remove all responsibility from Evans, and he did have occasional good games or good spells in spite of that, he was fighting against the tide. He has complimented the energy of Reed and moreso Travis much better than any partner he has had in the past.

Looking at his commitment and I dont think it can be coincidence considering how many times it happened that he often recovered from injury just to play for his country. Maybe he was unwilling to play through the pain barrier? But then again, he seems totally unfazed that he had his skull caved in so it really is a mystery.

I wouldnt say that he is a particularly assertive midfielder, I have always felt that he was fairly neat and tidy but rarely does he take a game by the scruff of the neck. He finished the League 1 season as arguably our best player for the last month or so, after missing much of that season, he started last season really well, got a new contract and then seemed to somewhat predictably fade away somewhat. However when he came in next to Travis his form massively improved over a decent period of time and I hope it continues.

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

This is all fair, and if I gave the impression that I think there are no ongoing problems with their ownership, then that was a mistake.

The main point I wanted to make (which probably got lost slightly) was that fans are still entitled to feel however they like about Venkys, even if there has been a marked improvement in their contribution over the last few years. As others have alluded to, there were questions posed by Alan Myers some weeks ago about how fans would feel about Venkys coming to Ewood for games, and whilst most comments were balanced there was the odd statement along the lines of "imagine still being bitter about them after so much time etc." Personally, I'm happy to recognise their apparent improvement and focus on the team, but I really didn't like the attitude suggesting that fans who took a different view were being unreasonable. 

Basically, I think questions about whether they are 'forgiven' or not really miss the point and are not important - but at the same time the fact that their ownership isn't the dominant issue that it was a few years ago is partially a result of how they have been doing a better job of shutting up and writing cheques. 

Alan Myers?  Now there is someone with a Ph.D. in Venky Apologism! "Handshakes replacing snowballs" and other on-line gainsaying of any supporter criticism of the Raos....

He makes me bloody sick. How dare a mere PR pillock presume to reconcile fans of this historic club into accepting the unacceptable?

What if this had happened to his beloved Everton? " If ya know yer 'istory" indeed!

[bazza]

I'm no Venky lover but I do appreciate them keeping us afloat financially. If they pulled out we'd go the same way as Bury. I'm sure none of us would want that. The past is the past. Forget it and move on.

[Mattyblue]

6 minutes ago, bazza said:

I'm no Venky lover but I do appreciate them keeping us afloat financially. If they pulled out we'd go the same way as Bury. I'm sure none of us would want that. The past is the past. Forget it and move on.

If you can simply move on then good luck to you, but how can it be forgotten when we still see the consequences of their disastrous reign and decision making even now?

Edited June 22, 2020 by Mattyblue

[bazza]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

If you can simply move on then good luck to you, but how can it be forgotten when we still see the consequences of their disastrous reign and decision making even now?

You would rather the club collapse just so you could say. " I told you so"?

[Mattyblue]

1 minute ago, bazza said:

You would rather the club collapse just so you could say. " I told you so"?

Yes bazza, I hope my beloved club that is an essential part of my life, of which I’m a 5th generation supporter goes bust so I could say just that on an anonymous internet message board.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Leonard Venkhater]

 

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, bazza said:

I'm no Venky lover but I do appreciate them keeping us afloat financially. If they pulled out we'd go the same way as Bury. I'm sure none of us would want that. The past is the past. Forget it and move on.

Everything before "but" is bullshit lol

[Blue blood]

19 minutes ago, bazza said:

I'm no Venky lover but I do appreciate them keeping us afloat financially. If they pulled out we'd go the same way as Bury. I'm sure none of us would want that. The past is the past. Forget it and move on.

You appreciate them keeping us afloat financially when they caused us to be dependant on them financially? Tbh I don't really follow this logic at all. 

Also I won't do a third post on it to prevent getting too repetitive but we can't move on with these jokers. 

[USABlue]

I really enjoyed the game and the win.  Was a polar opposite of what I was expecting. Ifollow worked flawlessly for me so presently surprised there too.  When we went behind I felt like same old same old.  Hitting back so quickly was key.  Poor reffing again.  Good win, very difficult game next.  Do well to win that one.

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, USABlue said:

I really enjoyed the game and the win.  Was a polar opposite of what I was expecting. Ifollow worked flawlessly for me so presently surprised there too.  When we went behind I felt like same old same old.  Hitting back so quickly was key.  Poor reffing again.  Good win, very difficult game next.  Do well to win that one.

A great win. Recovered from a sucker punch and having a goal disallowed too.

Wigan will be a big test. How I have learned to despise them!

[Stuart]

14 hours ago, perthblue02 said:

0.40 - 0.44 seconds in on the video match highlights posted in a previous post by Allroverasia, shows its real 

The photo of Desai (as well as the others apart from Barry's son? )seem to be  from when they first turned up at Ewood for that night game, when Barry and Tache went on the pitch and she stayed in the stand, probably from the LT

Yet another new low in a long list.

They don’t even attend games so the idea of cut outs in the directors seats is ludicrous.

Sticking Jack out there as a token gesture is worse than not having him there at all. Whoever had that brain fart is completely out of touch.