Wigan Athletic (A) - Saturday 27th June (3pm)

[Silas]

I could stomach losing 2-0 if we'd really gone for it in the last half hour. We scare teams when we're on the front foot, and had nothing to lose in this match at this stage of the season.

But no, we sat back and pissed about playing tippy tappy, until one of our clanger candidates could be given the opportunity to shine.

With various options available to oblige,(Bennett, Rothwell, Johnson, Walton), it was great to see one of them eventually step up to the plate. 

???????!!

[arbitro]

Kevin Gallacher on Radio Lancashire just made a perfectly valid point as to why Mulgrew wasn't played at left back today. He has played Champions League and International football in that position and whilst he is long past his best it would at least be a square peg in a square hole rather than playing a player there whose left foot is for standing on and contributes the arse end of nothing.

[Cherry Blue]

2 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

Everyone was doing well enough before any subs, bar Gallagher and Bennett who were horrific. Folk on here pelting Rothwell and Holtby, I thought they were decent, and controlled the middle of the pitch. 
 

Bring on the youngsters on Tuesday and let’s see what we’ve got.

Agree with your comment Fras. We had 11 players on the pitch but the confidence must have been low with other team players when they know a ball to Gallagher or Bennett will result in nothing. Not for the first time has this happened yet TM will play both again on Tuesday. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

Everyone was doing well enough before any subs, bar Gallagher and Bennett who were horrific. Folk on here pelting Rothwell and Holtby, I thought they were decent, and controlled the middle of the pitch. 
 

Bring on the youngsters on Tuesday and let’s see what we’ve got.

Holtby was decent enough, Rothwell did nothing of note. I can't even remember his going past a player. 

What annoyed me a lot was the lack of urgency from us near the end. All our poor performances have that in it. Wigan couldn't have wished for a easier last 15 min. 

[Athlete]

Just now, Cherry Blue said:

Agree with your comment Fras. We had 11 players on the pitch but the confidence must have been low with other team players when they know a ball to Gallagher or Bennett will result in nothing. Not for the first time has this happened yet TM will play both again on Tuesday. 

And in that 2nd sentence is why we won't progress or make the play offs

[Bigdoggsteel]

Gallagher was especially putrid today though. His first touch makes it look like he's playing with a beach ball. Useless in the air too. 

Brereton looks vastly improved. 

What is Mowbray doing to Armstrong? 

[Ewood Ace]

39 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Marshall saved a very similar one to the cross Walton dropped for their first. The difference being Marshall held onto it. 

Walton is probably a net negative for points at this stage 

Marshall was the keeper I wanted us to sign in the summer when we let Raya go. He was available for free and was exactly what we needed a good solid experienced goalkeeper. 

[Athlete]

34 minutes ago, Cherry Blue said:

Bennett played one good cross but for the rest of the game he did nothing that deserves him being first choice on Tuesday.

But TM has already penciled him in the team.

 

a good manager shouldn't have favourites

[Ewood Ace]

40 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Evans has fractured his toe. Awful skull fracture aside, it’s a case of rinse and repeat with him in a Rovers shirt isn’t it?

He'll put in a few decent performances at the start of next season as he will be after a new contract. He only ever puts together a run of decent performances when he needs a new contract.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Let's be honest here too, Samuel is useless. Did absolutely nothing when he came on apart from somehow missing Armstrong's cross that was on a plate for him. 

We have some collection of non scoring "strikers". Then the one most likely to score is on the bench. 

[tomphil]

6 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Kevin Gallacher on Radio Lancashire just made a perfectly valid point as to why Mulgrew wasn't played at left back today. He has played Champions League and International football in that position and whilst he is long past his best it would at least be a square peg in a square hole rather than playing a player there whose left foot is for standing on and contributes the arse end of nothing.

If he's making the bench then it's fair to assume he's available to come on which blows the contract theory. If not then why is he on the bench at all ?

Again it's fair to assume there'll be a bench bonus so more brass wasted if so.

[rigger]

3 minutes ago, Athlete said:

a good manager shouldn't have favourites

He can have favourites, just as long as they are the best players.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I like Evans, but how is one man SO injury prone? I mean breaking his toe last week. Seriously? You have players than can go years without being injured. He can barely go 2 games. 

Williams and Bell, 2 puddings as well. Injured more than fit. 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I thought we were poor attacking. no Creativity. Downing and Rothwell poor which was a shame as I feel it was a perfect chance for Rothwell. I am a fan of him but he just lacks belief himself this season. Its annoying. 

Gallagher poor, had a good chance with a header and put it over, Samuel and Armstrong had 1 chance but thats was it. Expected alot better from us after last week. 

Brereton and Travis shining light. 

Davenport did more in his cameo this Johnson did in 28 mins. 

Walton wasnt fouled in their 1st goal as he was claiming but hit his own man of Adarabioyo. 

Wigan were nothing special just a very basic standard team and players. Should have been beating this lot. going to know 15 points in next 7 games to have any chance of playoffs. Hoping for a much better performance on Tuesday at Barnsley at 6pm kick off. 

 

No mention for Bennett? You accepted his place at left back pre game but he was absolutely shocking. Added to his usual flaws, diving in needlessly, playing the opposition in on goal etc, when the ball was played to him he had to check back inside which removed any outlet. 

Travis definitely the shining light. Brereton better but the fact that we are taking hope from flickers and hes got 1 goal in 2 years for a 7m striker maybe says a lot. Needs to score soon.

Think the balance of the team isnt right.

[Guest]

One day we'll get our act together and learn how to play a Paul Cook side consistently. The one time we mananged it was the one time we matched them for route one with Danny Graham up top. Got it wrong today, so many players performed badly - but outside of individual player performances we were completely "Out Tacticted" by Mr Cook. 

Holtby as a false nine didn't work the first time, and was never going to work a second.
Elliott Bennett at left-back never has worked, and was never going to work here.
Sam Gallagher isn't a winger, and he was never going to succeed on the wing today.
Joe Rothwell hasn't got the bollocks, and we keep beating that dead horse trying to fit him in
Armstrong is literally our only goalscorer, and he benched him for a second consecutive game.

Honestly, TM couldn't have got today more wrong, and I find his post-match comments blaming solely the decisions of the players to be in poor taste.

[Crimpshrine]

34 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Kevin Gallacher on Radio Lancashire just made a perfectly valid point as to why Mulgrew wasn't played at left back today. He has played Champions League and International football in that position and whilst he is long past his best it would at least be a square peg in a square hole rather than playing a player there whose left foot is for standing on and contributes the arse end of nothing.

Isn't Mulgrew on 99 appearances and may trigger some sort of extension or bonus if he plays again ?

Edited June 27, 2020 by Crimpshrine

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Let's be honest here too, Samuel is useless. Did absolutely nothing when he came on apart from somehow missing Armstrong's cross that was on a plate for him. 

We have some collection of non scoring "strikers". Then the one most likely to score is on the bench. 

Again though, he did more in a 10 minute stint than Gallagher managed ALL GAME. I agree that we have a collection of non-scoring strikers but he isn't the worst of them, and he gets the least game time out of most of them - so shouldn't really be the focus of frustration.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

Bring on the youngsters on Tuesday and let’s see what we’ve got.

The 'youngsters' should've played today. Armstrong should've started, as should left-back Lewis Thompson, who yet again can't even get a spot on the bench whilst a below average winger/below average right-back/not even a pro footballing quality left-back plays ahead of him. 

[Crimpshrine]

1 hour ago, Mum63 said:

Not sure if it’s true but someone on Twitter said Armstrong had Covid 19 so 10 days behind on fitness 

Radio Lancs confirmed Armstrong did have Covid and had to isolate despite having no symptoms. I think it was before Bennett confirmed he had it.

[tomphil]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

One day we'll get our act together and learn how to play a Paul Cook side consistently. The one time we mananged it was the one time we matched them for route one with Danny Graham up top. Got it wrong today, so many players performed badly - but outside of individual player performances we were completely "Out Tacticted" by Mr Cook. 

Holtby as a false nine didn't work the first time, and was never going to work a second.
Elliott Bennett at left-back never has worked, and was never going to work here.
Sam Gallagher isn't a winger, and he was never going to succeed on the wing today.
Joe Rothwell hasn't got the bollocks, and we keep beating that dead horse trying to fit him in
Armstrong is literally our only goalscorer, and he benched him for a second consecutive game.

Honestly, TM couldn't have got today more wrong, and I find his post-match comments blaming solely the decisions of the players to be in poor taste.

Every now and again it does work that's why it keeps getting repeated.

[arbitro]

3 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Isn't Mulgrew on 99 appearances and may trigger some sort of extension or bonus if he plays again ?

I don't know but if he is and Rovers want to avoid paying him why is he on the bench? When I heard Gallacher mention this I thought for sure that Mowbray would be questioned about it on Radio Lancashire but no mention of it.

Mowbray must have the easiest ride from local press than any other manager in the country.

[RV Blue]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Because he is dog slow and has no positional sense. Bennett needs to not be at left back, but we have plenty of better options there than Mulgrew.

Sorry, are you suggesting Bennett isn’t slow and has positional sense?

[Cherry Blue]

Just read TM comments

"....when the ball flashes across the box, Gallagher at the back post with a header, they have to go in. If they do then you could win 1 0....".

I realise its been a long season but how many times has Gallagher scored! He (TM) plays him expecting to do something unusual like score a winner then puts out a statement that clears himself from blame. ?  

[rigger]

18 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Isn't Mulgrew on 99 appearances and may trigger some sort of extension or bonus if he plays again ?

Haven’t we just given an extension to Hart who cannot even play for us?

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, JoeH said:

One day we'll get our act together and learn how to play a Paul Cook side consistently. The one time we mananged it was the one time we matched them for route one with Danny Graham up top. Got it wrong today, so many players performed badly - but outside of individual player performances we were completely "Out Tacticted" by Mr Cook. 

Holtby as a false nine didn't work the first time, and was never going to work a second.
Elliott Bennett at left-back never has worked, and was never going to work here.
Sam Gallagher isn't a winger, and he was never going to succeed on the wing today.
Joe Rothwell hasn't got the bollocks, and we keep beating that dead horse trying to fit him in
Armstrong is literally our only goalscorer, and he benched him for a second consecutive game.

Honestly, TM couldn't have got today more wrong, and I find his post-match comments blaming solely the decisions of the players to be in poor taste.

I agree with many of your criticisms tactically (probably all in fact) but totally disagree with the desire to try and match up and replicate other teams tactical approaches.

I recall when we played Stoke away, on the back of 2 wins, you advocated a host of changes to counteract Stokes physicality, we went same again and won. We need to develop a consistent way of getting the best out of players at our disposal, at the moment I would say our squad lends itself to trying to keep the ball, Adarabioyo, Downing, Holtby etc, we have technically good players. When we play teams further down the table, obviously we need to be able to physically handle ourselves, which we can with Lenihan, Travis, Adarabioyo, Nyambe, but we need to impose our own style on them, not match them up.

The problem was not that we didnt match them up tactically. Surely the key was in finding a way in which our better technical players could work effectively and the game centres round on that, rather than trying to play teams at their own game, especially ones lower in the table. You do that, surely you lose because they are better at it than you?

The flashes of good play today where when our technically superior players were moving the ball quickly and accurately between the lines. We need to come up with a formation that really lends itself to doing that more effectively. I can sort of understand the thinking behind the false 9 thing but it works maybe in theory but not in practice, it has no penetration. We need to build around Holtby central and Armstrong. 

Also, I think the reason that Samuel must be moved on is because its clear that the false 9, 2 inverted forwards formation as you say doesnt work. We have Armstrong as our main central striker and unfortunately Brereton and Gallagher still contracted. We then have Dack and Holtby as number 10s. Whether Samuel is better than them I am not even convinced, but theres scope to let him go and at least streamline this weak area of the team and use those resources maybe in bringing in a wide man who can add more balance to the team.