Wigan Athletic (A) - Saturday 27th June (3pm)

[Bigdoggsteel]

27 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Welcome to the boards

been established that Bell and WIlliams are out and possible that JRC is too. 

Mmm... maybe Downing so, just ahead of Bennett. I think it will be Bennett if the other 3 aren't available though 

[Bigdoggsteel]

I would have Johnson in for his combativeness and experience in a scrap. With 5 subs we can easily get Holtby and Downing on later in the game. 

Is JRC definitely out?? 

[roversfan99]

Nyambe has to come in at right back, easiest decision to make.

Armstrong should come in to, for Gallagher who was very quiet again last week. Give Brereton another go.

The conundrum is left back. Bennett CANNOT play there, he has looked like a fish up a tree everytime he has played there. I suspect he will but I dearly hope not.

It is not ideal but I would put Downing at left back. He has been excellent when he has played there and gives us additional control from deep positions. He also gives us more width on his left foot.

You could then potentially play Johnson in there but my choice would be to push Holtby back along with Travis and Evans, giving Holtby license to dictate and get forward.

I would then put Rothwell where Holtby played, giving him freedom to run at Wigan from more central positions.

So 3 changes, Bennett, JRC and Gallagher out, Nyambe, Rothwell and Armstrong in.

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Nyambe has to come in at right back, easiest decision to make.

Armstrong should come in to, for Gallagher who was very quiet again last week. Give Brereton another go.

The conundrum is left back. Bennett CANNOT play there, he has looked like a fish up a tree everytime he has played there. I suspect he will but I dearly hope not.

It is not ideal but I would put Downing at left back. He has been excellent when he has played there and gives us additional control from deep positions. He also gives us more width on his left foot.

You could then potentially play Johnson in there but my choice would be to push Holtby back along with Travis and Evans, giving Holtby license to dictate and get forward.

I would then put Rothwell where Holtby played, giving him freedom to run at Wigan from more central positions.

So 3 changes, Bennett, JRC and Gallagher out, Nyambe, Rothwell and Armstrong in.

Why move Downing from his centre midfielder role where he is the best at the club in control our play and tempo? 

Also you are playing Rothwell as false 9 then? 

[oldjamfan1]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

                       Walton

Nyambe  Tosin Lenihan JRC(if he is fit, otherwise Bell or Williams) 

          Evans Johnson Travis

      Brereton Armstrong Gallagher 

We need a muscular and physical performance against these animals. Hopefully we avoid injuries. 

Welcome back mate!

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Why move Downing from his centre midfielder role where he is the best at the club in control our play and tempo? 

Also you are playing Rothwell as false 9 then? 

Because Downing can play competently (well thats understating it) at left back and Bennett cant so I dont see what choice we have. Downing reads the game well and anticipates danger  whereas Bennett dives in and leaves gaps. Downing is also left footed, gives us additional control from deep playing there and gives us an overlapping threat. 

Holtby can gives us that technical ability and control in midfield.

And I dont know. Maybe have Rothwell to the left and Armstrong to the right, I suppose it would be quite fluid. If Rothwell played central then essentially he would be playing more as an attacking midfielder with 2 up front like Holtby did.

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Because Downing can play competently (well thats understating it) at left back and Bennett cant so I dont see what choice we have. Downing reads the game well and anticipates danger  whereas Bennett dives in and leaves gaps. Downing is also left footed, gives us additional control from deep playing there and gives us an overlapping threat. 

Holtby can gives us that technical ability and control in midfield.

And I dont know. Maybe have Rothwell to the left and Armstrong to the right, I suppose it would be quite fluid. If Rothwell played central then essentially he would be playing more as an attacking midfielder with 2 up front like Holtby did.

I dont want to move our best player in deep playmaker role to left back as you suggest you would. Hope you understand the reasons why. It's far from ideal Bennett at left back but its 4th choice so its needs must. 

Dont think Holtby is in the same class as Downing in terms of playing that deeper playmaker role. 

Why would you play Armstrong in wide role unless Graham is on the pitch? Armstrong is our best striker and he scores goals. Play him up front. 

Why change from the 4-3-3 that's worked so well last week. If you want Rothwell to replace Gallagher then Rothwell surely has to play the right side? 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

I dont want to move our best player in deep playmaker role to left back as you suggest you would. Hope you understand the reasons why. It's far from ideal Bennett at left back but its 4th choice so its needs must. 

Dont think Holtby is in the same class as Downing in terms of playing that deeper playmaker role. 

Why would you play Armstrong in wide role unless Graham is on the pitch? Armstrong is our best striker and he scores goals. Play him up front. 

Why change from the 4-3-3 that's worked so well last week. If you want Rothwell to replace Gallagher then Rothwell surely has to play the right side? 

Not really, I think this particular solution falls down because you are playing someone in a position that quite clearly and evidently cannot play at left back. Not only has he shown over a long period that he is not capable of playing at full back, he looked particularly out of place playing on his weak side.

I would rather have Downing in central midfield if we had a left back available and competent enough but we dont which is my reasoning for it. Needs must. Downing is a picture of calmness and intelligence even at left back, and he also gives us balance on his left side and control. Bennett's primary weakness of playing with his heart rather than his head leaves huge spaces that wide players can easily exploit. My team in my opinion doesnt have any players where Wigan can think, we can target Rovers there. Yours has a big one.

I dont really mind which of Rothwell, Armstrong and Brereton play on which sides. if the false 9 experiment will continue, it would make sense to have Rothwell as a false 9 dropping deeper, Armstrong from the left as he did last week and Brereton to the right.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Not really, I think this particular solution falls down because you are playing someone in a position that quite clearly and evidently cannot play at left back. Not only has he shown over a long period that he is not capable of playing at full back, he looked particularly out of place playing on his weak side.

I would rather have Downing in central midfield if we had a left back available and competent enough but we dont which is my reasoning for it. Needs must. Downing is a picture of calmness and intelligence even at left back, and he also gives us balance on his left side and control. Bennett's primary weakness of playing with his heart rather than his head leaves huge spaces that wide players can easily exploit. My team in my opinion doesnt have any players where Wigan can think, we can target Rovers there. Yours has a big one.

I dont really mind which of Rothwell, Armstrong and Brereton play on which sides. if the false 9 experiment will continue, it would make sense to have Rothwell as a false 9 dropping deeper, Armstrong from the left as he did last week and Brereton to the right.

I rather have Bennett at left back with Downing in centre midfield. I am not moving our best player from his best and his more effective role for our team to left back. 

 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I rather have Bennett at left back with Downing in centre midfield. I am not moving our best player from his best and his more effective role for our team to left back. 

 

Thats fair enough, we all have our opinions. Understand the reluctance to move Downing, but personally wouldnt refrain to the point of creating such a huge weakness in the side.

I do also really like Downing at left back, because his understanding of the game shines through, one step ahead in his head and seldom if ever caught out of position. Also would give us some lovely overlapping runs and deliveries as shown by the assist v Brentford earlier in the season. I'd prefer him in the middle, but couple our total absence of any competent left backs available and also our strength in depth in midfield, it seems the logical choice to me until Williams or Bell return.

You are only as good as your weakest player and Bennett playing so far out of position playing not only at full back but on his weak side is IMO asking for trouble. I suspect that you will get your wish though and Mowbray will select him there.

[Fraserkirky]

14 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Nyambe has to come in at right back, easiest decision to make.

Armstrong should come in to, for Gallagher who was very quiet again last week. Give Brereton another go.

The conundrum is left back. Bennett CANNOT play there, he has looked like a fish up a tree everytime he has played there. I suspect he will but I dearly hope not.

It is not ideal but I would put Downing at left back. He has been excellent when he has played there and gives us additional control from deep positions. He also gives us more width on his left foot.

You could then potentially play Johnson in there but my choice would be to push Holtby back along with Travis and Evans, giving Holtby license to dictate and get forward.

I would then put Rothwell where Holtby played, giving him freedom to run at Wigan from more central positions.

So 3 changes, Bennett, JRC and Gallagher out, Nyambe, Rothwell and Armstrong in.

Posted exact same team on page 1

? 

[Fraserkirky]

13 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I rather have Bennett at left back with Downing in centre midfield. I am not moving our best player from his best and his more effective role for our team to left back. 

 

Tosin is our best player. Travis second. Maybe Nyambe third.

Downing has been brilliant for us, and he can more than do a job at left back, last Saturday I thought he was okay, Evans and Travis where way more involved. No issues having him at Left Back, with that left foot. Nyambe being back also helps with his pace to cover.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Fraserkirky

[rigger]

I couldn’t give a toss who plays where, as long as we win.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The conundrum is left back. Bennett CANNOT play there, he has looked like a fish up a tree everytime he has played there. I suspect he will but I dearly hope not.

It is not ideal but I would put Downing at left back. He has been excellent when he has played there and gives us additional control from deep positions. He also gives us more width on his left foot.

If Joe Rankin-Costello, Amari'i Bell and Derrick Williams are all injured, it beggars belief to me that Northern Ireland youth capped, promoing full-back Lewis Thompson can't get a game? He's an actual left-back unlike JRC, so is highly unlikely to have a game any worse than he did against Bristol City. It's baffling to me that A) It doesn't even seem to be within the realm of possibility for TM and b) that nobody I've seen has suggested it online either.

[JacknOry]

31 minutes ago, JoeH said:

If Joe Rankin-Costello, Amari'i Bell and Derrick Williams are all injured, it beggars belief to me that Northern Ireland youth capped, promoing full-back Lewis Thompson can't get a game? He's an actual left-back unlike JRC, so is highly unlikely to have a game any worse than he did against Bristol City. It's baffling to me that A) It doesn't even seem to be within the realm of possibility for TM and b) that nobody I've seen has suggested it online either.

A better suggestion than EB in my opinion and a valid one.

For this game though, would still have Downing there. Has always impressed when called on to play there and has played that position plenty of times for Liverpool in the past. We have plenty of CM's that can cover his slot in midfield. Johnson, Davenport, Rothwell, Holtby etc.

[Blue blood]

Some good debate on team selection. Think I'm in the middle of all these opinions. For me the key issue is that this will be a battle, a real scrap and therefore we need to match them at this. 

With this in mind, I think the team would be influenced to the following selections  Downing has to be left back as 99 suggests as Bennett really struggles there. Not sure there are too many other alternatives with injuries, but Bennett's liabilities at full back hugely increase when he is played on the wrong side. 

In the middle I'd bring in Johnson. He has poor fitness but is a canny battler and I think that is what will be needed. Knowing he will need to be replaced has less of a negative impact when 5 subs are allowed. Bennett could be a good like for like (ish) replacement later on. 

Up top we have to have our best player playing so Armstrong starts. After that it's a form Vs tactics issue really. Bereton had one of his best showings at the weekend however given it will be a scrap I wonder if tactically a more physically robust striker, either Graham or Gally would be better starting. With the games crammed into a short period I can't see many players starting them all so perhaps not a bad one for Bereton to be benched for. Also i'm not convinced he can make it 2 in a row! 

Much harder game imo as Wigan are in great form and we generally don't like a scrap or being favourites in a game. Hard game and probably a draw but a win is really needed to keep momentum going. 

[Guest]

Just now, Blue blood said:

or being favourites in a game

Luckily I don't think we are. They've not conceded a goal in their last 5 games. I still have a real confidence we will win, but still, I think due to their form we're lucky to not be favourites heading into it.

[Blue blood]

Just now, JoeH said:

Luckily I don't think we are. They've not conceded a goal in their last 5 games. I still have a real confidence we will win, but still, I think due to their form we're lucky to not be favourites heading into it.

I hope so. League position suggests otherwise albeit form dkesnt. Add in the need for a win is great for us and minimal for them and I worry about the pressure on the team. 

[Guest]

Suggestion from Rich Sharpe that Sam Hart can play 

However, Lewis Thompson has kept Hart out of the 23's side at times over the last two seasons. He's shown on many occasions at Leyland to be far and away superior to him, so why on earth we'd go with Hart over him is a little odd to me, but there we go.

[MarkBRFC]

So Hart can play, but I'd put my mortgage on that he won't.

5 players ahead of him at left back, not including the lad who kept him out of the under 23s.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

So Hart can play, but I'd put my mortgage on that he won't.

5 players ahead of him at left back, not including the lad who kept him out of the under 23s.

He won't. Sharpe has since gone back on his comments from what I can see, explaining that the sheer amount of procedure and policy in place to allow him to play most likely means that Rovers will have left it. Beggars belief again though as to why his contract would be extended.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

If Joe Rankin-Costello, Amari'i Bell and Derrick Williams are all injured, it beggars belief to me that Northern Ireland youth capped, promoing full-back Lewis Thompson can't get a game? He's an actual left-back unlike JRC, so is highly unlikely to have a game any worse than he did against Bristol City. It's baffling to me that A) It doesn't even seem to be within the realm of possibility for TM and b) that nobody I've seen has suggested it online either.

As much prestige as caps for Northern Ireland youth teams provide, I suspect that would be a big ask at that stage. Downing is undoubtedly the best left back at the club anyway, anticipates danger so well, helps us build from deep, a great left foot on the overlap, obviously that shows a lot because hes never been a left back and if we have actual senior left backs then it is more sensible to keep Downing in midfield, although him playing at LB earlier this season coincided with a run of wins.

In the absence of a fit and competent senior left back, there seems little logical alternative but to put Downing there. Bennett simply cannot play that role, hes right footed and he dives in far too much.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

As much prestige as caps for Northern Ireland youth teams provide, I suspect that would be a big ask at that stage

I'm sorry but if a youth player who's usually playing in behind the striker, or as a winger, can play full back on his weaker foot and have a commendable game - then surely another youth players who's natural position is left-back, playing on his strong foot, isn't exactly a huge leap. If JRC could cope, out of position and on the wrong side, then Thompson could easily cope. Allowing Downing to play in his much superior position.

Downing will get run ragged by Jamal Lowe, he hasn't got the pace.

[Admiral Nelsen]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

I'm sorry but if a youth player who's usually playing in behind the striker, or as a winger, can play full back on his weaker foot and have a commendable game - then surely another youth players who's natural position is left-back, playing on his strong foot, isn't exactly a huge leap. If JRC could cope, out of position and on the wrong side, then Thompson could easily cope. Allowing Downing to play in his much superior position.

Downing will get run ragged by Jamal Lowe, he hasn't got the pace.

Got a hell of a brain on him though. Not saying that Lowe wouldn't give him a hard time, but he's coped excellently with coming up against wingers plenty quicker than him so far.

Maybe by having Downing making overlapping runs Lowe will be spending more time thinking about his defensive duties and less time running at the full back. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, JoeH said:

I'm sorry but if a youth player who's usually playing in behind the striker, or as a winger, can play full back on his weaker foot and have a commendable game - then surely another youth players who's natural position is left-back, playing on his strong foot, isn't exactly a huge leap. If JRC could cope, out of position and on the wrong side, then Thompson could easily cope. Allowing Downing to play in his much superior position.

Downing will get run ragged by Jamal Lowe, he hasn't got the pace.

I found the Rankin Costello selection very strange too.

Good players have the first yard in their head. I dont ever remember Downing being run ragged by a fast winger and we played against Brentford I recall with him at left back and kept a clean sheet. Out of himself, Bell and Williams, he is by far the most competent there. Id certainly take him there any day

The only compromise is moving him from midfield but when we can bring in Johnson or Rothwell there, whereas the alternatives at left back are a kid whose never played senior League football or a player out of position to the point where he is a huge liability, then for me its not a difficult call. Maybe put Thompson on the bench over Carter.