Wigan Athletic (A) - Saturday 27th June (3pm)

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Maybe by having Downing making overlapping runs Lowe will be spending more time thinking about his defensive duties and less time running at the full back. 

I think Downing at left-back will be a liability against a Wigan side who's best areas on the bitch are in the wide areas. We'll have a lot of ball, so as soon as we get hit on the counter, Downing wont' be able to sprint the full pitch to catch up for a full 90 minutes. Just won't work. It's why Elliott Bennett will play there (not that I particularly want that), but it's why I think Thompson should play there. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont ever remember Downing being run ragged by a fast winger and we played against Brentford I recall with him at left back and kept a clean sheet

That's because he never left our half. We sat 10 men behind the ball and dug out a win. Against Wigan we'll have over 60% possession. Wigan won 2-0 against Huddersfield with only 30% of the ball. Against a counter attacking team Downing will struggle, he didn't struggle against Brentford because they're a slow build up possession based side.

[roversfan99]

Just now, JoeH said:

That's because he never left our half. We sat 10 men behind the ball and dug out a win. Against Wigan we'll have over 60% possession. Wigan won 2-0 against Huddersfield with only 30% of the ball. Against a counter attacking team Downing will struggle, he didn't struggle against Brentford because they're a slow build up possession based side.

When was the last time that we had over 60% possession? Not sure that is a formality.

Downing every time he has played as a left back has looked at ease there, the Brentford game was an example. He reads danger before it arrives, and he is not slow to the point where he is a total liability on the counter attack anyway, he is hardly like Michel Salgado was at the end of his time here. (Plus Jamal Lowe is not a particularly good player, no doubt he will score now) Nor would he be expected to be charging forward everytime on the overlap anyway, again his intelligence would dictate that he wouldnt be wreckless enough to do that.

You mention Bennett, I suspect a race between him and Downing would be much more competitive that you are making out too! Downing doesnt dive in and leave huge gaps like Bennett does. Never seen Thompson play for the reserves but its a massive ask to chuck him in when hes used to playing with other kids.

[rigger]

20 minutes ago, JoeH said:

That's because he never left our half. We sat 10 men behind the ball and dug out a win. Against Wigan we'll have over 60% possession. Wigan won 2-0 against Huddersfield with only 30% of the ball. Against a counter attacking team Downing will struggle, he didn't struggle against Brentford because they're a slow build up possession based side.

Your basing this on some hypothetical player who has no football nounce. That is not Downing. Perhaps Downings positional play did not allow Brentford to quickly break. All I can say is that Downing of the players available, has been our most effective left back.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Never seen Thompson play for the reserves but its a massive ask to chuck him in when hes used to playing with other kids.

JRC had never played at left back, barely played first team football too. He was fine. Downing is our player of the season for me, and to waste him at left back would be sad.

[@roverseas]

Ideally we need to be winning our next 2 as on the horizon we have some extra difficult matches which could see us lose ground. Wigan are in a good bit of form right now, but hopefully we can take advantage of an empty away stadium and bring home a victory from a usually stubborn DW!  More of what we saw last week would do me. Big Ben, Evans and Travis doing there thing! Dont get me started on Paul Cock and Sam Morsy! Excellent shithouse merchants!

 

 

[JacknOry]

Think some are underestimating just how quick Downing can be. One of my earliest memories of him this season that really stood out was him beating the likes of Nyambe and a few others when sprinting back towards goal. Forgot which match it was though. 

Downing has a football brain which is why he can easily adapt to so many positions. For me it is a no-brainer that he goes to LB on previous showings considering our depth in midfield to replace him and the lack of the same in that position. Bennett already gets targetted when playing on his favoured side and on his weaker side he will get rinsed. A young player making his debut will also struggle in a game we need to win against one of their best players who are fighting to stay up.

Downing all day, every day for me.

[Admiral Nelsen]

5 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Think some are underestimating just how quick Downing can be. One of my earliest memories of him this season that really stood out was him beating the likes of Nyambe and a few others when sprinting back towards goal. Forgot which match it was though. 

Downing has a football brain which is why he can easily adapt to so many positions. For me it is a no-brainer that he goes to LB on previous showings considering our depth in midfield to replace him and the lack of the same in that position. Bennett already gets targetted when playing on his favoured side and on his weaker side he will get rinsed. A young player making his debut will also struggle in a game we need to win against one of their best players who are fighting to stay up.

Downing all day, every day for me.

I don't quite agree that it's a no-brainer, mainly because I don't think that Bennett at left back is a disaster when we don't have a fit first team left back (accept that I'm probably in the minority on that one) and even though I think Downing is more than capable of doing a good job back there's still an element of risk moving him there.

That said, on balance I agree that it's probably the best move - it's the one I'd make anyway. 

[rigger]

Just now, Admiral Nelsen said:

I don't quite agree that it's a no-brainer, mainly because I don't think that Bennett at left back is a disaster when we don't have a fit first team left back (accept that I'm probably in the minority on that one) and even though I think Downing is more than capable of doing a good job back there's still an element of risk moving him there.

That said, on balance I agree that it's probably the best move - it's the one I'd make anyway. 

The problem is, that the other member of your minority, it ToMo.

[Guest]

It's not that Downing wouldn't be great at Left-Back. If you take the context of the full team away, sure I'd probably put Downing there, but I firmly believe taking Downing out of our midfield, with no Dack in the side, leaves us with a lack of creativity going forward.

[rigger]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

It's not that Downing wouldn't be great at Left-Back. If you take the context of the full team away, sure I'd probably put Downing there, but I firmly believe taking Downing out of our midfield, with no Dack in the side, leaves us with a lack of creativity going forward.

Apart from Travis and Holtby!

[BlackburnEnd75]

                       Walton

Nyambe   Lenihan   Tosin   Downing

           Travis      Evans   Holtby

     Brereton     Graham    Armstrong

[Admiral Nelsen]

3 minutes ago, JoeH said:

It's not that Downing wouldn't be great at Left-Back. If you take the context of the full team away, sure I'd probably put Downing there, but I firmly believe taking Downing out of our midfield, with no Dack in the side, leaves us with a lack of creativity going forward.

I'm not completely unsympathetic to that - I rate Downing above Holtby as a creator of chances - but it is a way of getting both Holtby in a position where he might be more effective than last week and get Armstrong in the team too. 

[roversfan99]

59 minutes ago, JoeH said:

JRC had never played at left back, barely played first team football too. He was fine. Downing is our player of the season for me, and to waste him at left back would be sad.

   

 

Just now, JoeH said:

It's not that Downing wouldn't be great at Left-Back. If you take the context of the full team away, sure I'd probably put Downing there, but I firmly believe taking Downing out of our midfield, with no Dack in the side, leaves us with a lack of creativity going forward.

I can definitely acknowledge the point that it isnt ideal to move Downing from midfield more than reservations about his vulnerability to be exploited by Jamal Lowe.

That being said, you have to look at the alternatives to either position. Bringing in Rothwell or Johnson doesnt weaken us at all really, and with Holtby, Travis and Evans already in the side and Armstrong as a goal threat our ability to control the game and also offer an attacking threat isnt really affected.

However, to ensure that the luxury of Downing continues in midfield, you need to have someone at left back who is competent. Bell and Williams are very much debatable in terms of competence, but a totally untested kid or a player who has repeatedly come up short at full back even on his strongest side having to be played there is in no way the best possible alternative.

[rigger]

13 minutes ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

                       Walton

Nyambe   Lenihan   Tosin   Downing

           Travis      Evans   Holtby

     Brereton     Graham    Armstrong

If we started with that side I would be happy.

[oldjamfan1]

25 minutes ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

                       Walton

Nyambe   Lenihan   Tosin   Downing

           Travis      Evans   Holtby

     Brereton     Graham    Armstrong

I do like the look of this team. However, I would also like to see Johnson kick seven shades of sh1t out of Morsy if I'm being totally honest.

[arbitro]

I heard that Bennett is starting at left back, Rothwell in midfield and Gallagher and Brereton up front.

[Blue blood]

Hmm one of the things I love about this board is the debate on players and formations and how we get the best combinations using the players strengths to make us as good as possible. I've missed this in lockdown. Admittedly I'd prefer it if some of these conversations were able to be more of a positive nature as oppose to who is the best makeshift left back or which of our insipid array of forwards should support Armstrong, but you can't have everything I suppose. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Blue blood

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I heard that Bennett is starting at left back, Rothwell in midfield and Gallagher and Brereton up front.

Where is that from? Wouldnt be keen on that, Bennett at LB and presumably Holtby and Armstrong missing out.

[arbitro]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Where is that from? Wouldnt be keen on that, Bennett at LB and presumably Holtby and Armstrong missing out.

I got it from somebody who knew last weeks team on the Friday.

[JacknOry]

16 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I heard that Bennett is starting at left back, Rothwell in midfield and Gallagher and Brereton up front.

just wow - we might as well just all stop debating it then lol. No matter what we all suggest - it will be wrong. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, arbitro said:

I got it from somebody who knew last weeks team on the Friday.

Can only think that Nyambe is in at RB, Bennett LB, JRC out. And Rothwell for Holtby or at a push Downing.

[oldjamfan1]

18 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I heard that Bennett is starting at left back, Rothwell in midfield and Gallagher and Brereton up front.

The same three forwards that came on after an hour on Saturday will no doubt be brought on to exploit tired defenders again then. Sounds like Holtby might miss out?

[arbitro]

Just now, oldjamfan1 said:

The same three forwards that came on after an hour on Saturday will no doubt be brought on to exploit tired defenders again then. Sounds like Holtby might miss out?

The conversation I had was at the side of the road and only brief but I'm sure he said Holtby in the starting eleven.

[oldjamfan1]

Just now, arbitro said:

The conversation I had was at the side of the road and only brief but I'm sure he said Holtby in the starting eleven.

That's interesting. Maybe someone else is injured then because I couldn't imagine Downing, Evans or Travis being left out if fit.