Barnsley v Rovers

[Vinjay]

Just now, rigger said:

Many clubs in the 70s went down the edgy fan route 

I've mentioned taking steps to avoid attracting hooligans, etc. OK being monitored on CCTV may not be cool but it's the way to weed put hooligans, racists, etc. Maybe hire stewards who actually do their damn job. You need to get rid of the negative types who abuse other fans (the people for instance who drove out many of the anti-Kean protesters) or abuse other fans for what appearance, clothing, etc. I don't want to be too "politically correct" either (banning kids hardly fits that category) but if you allow drums, horns, etc without someone next to you whining about the noise people will be attracted to that. Ban anyone who is a negative influence on the atmosphere. I'm not saying everyone has to sing (some people don't because they are shy) but you don't have to be a negative, whining influence who only comments to suck any positivity out of the people around them. I've heard Union Berlin have zero tolerance on people like that. OK maybe if the team is losing 5-0 have some leeway where that's concerned but scapegoating certain players for a misplaced pass 2 mins into a game...get lost.

[oldjamfan1]

Just now, Vinjay said:

I've mentioned taking steps to avoid attracting hooligans, etc. OK being monitored on CCTV may not be cool but it's the way to weed put hooligans, racists, etc. Maybe hire stewards who actually do their damn job. You need to get rid of the negative types who abuse other fans (the people for instance who drove out many of the anti-Kean protesters) or abuse other fans for what appearance, clothing, etc. I don't want to be too "politically correct" either (banning kids hardly fits that category) but if you allow drums, horns, etc without someone next to you whining about the noise people will be attracted to that. Ban anyone who is a negative influence on the atmosphere. I'm not saying everyone has to sing (some people don't because they are shy) but you don't have to be a negative, whining influence who only comments to suck any positivity out of the people around them. I've heard Union Berlin have zero tolerance on people like that. OK maybe if the team is losing 5-0 have some leeway where that's concerned but scapegoating certain players for a misplaced pass 2 mins into a game...get lost.

We would effectively be playing behind closed doors ad infinitum in this case.

[rigger]

9 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

I've mentioned taking steps to avoid attracting hooligans, etc. OK being monitored on CCTV may not be cool but it's the way to weed put hooligans, racists, etc. Maybe hire stewards who actually do their damn job. You need to get rid of the negative types who abuse other fans (the people for instance who drove out many of the anti-Kean protesters) or abuse other fans for what appearance, clothing, etc. I don't want to be too "politically correct" either (banning kids hardly fits that category) but if you allow drums, horns, etc without someone next to you whining about the noise people will be attracted to that. Ban anyone who is a negative influence on the atmosphere. I'm not saying everyone has to sing (some people don't because they are shy) but you don't have to be a negative, whining influence who only comments to suck any positivity out of the people around them. I've heard Union Berlin have zero tolerance on people like that. OK maybe if the team is losing 5-0 have some leeway where that's concerned but scapegoating certain players for a misplaced pass 2 mins into a game...get lost.

At least you will be conforming to social distancing. As you would be the only Spectator there.

[Vinjay]

You can still be hostile to other teams, players, etc. One of my first moves would be to issue a public ban on anyone who's spoken badly of the past. Ferguson was one person mentioned. What about the scum who defended Kean (including Ferguson) like Redknapp, Moyes, etc. Put them on the ban list and tell everyone they are on it.

What use are fans who criticise the slightest mistake? Once you ban them once (it wouldn't have to be permanent on a first strike) that might be enough for the message to sink in. Who knows they might actually start to enjoy sitting through a game without being a negative cancer on the fans around them.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Vinjay

[oldjamfan1]

3 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

You can still be hostile to other teams, players, etc. One of my first moves would be to issue a public ban on anyone who's spoken badly of the past. Ferguson was one person mentioned. What about the scum who defended Kean (including Ferguson) like Redknapp, Moyes, etc. Put them on the ban list and tell everyone they are on it.

What use are fans who criticise the slightest mistake? Once you ban them once (it wouldn't have to be permanent on a first strike) that might be enough for the message to sink in. Who knows they might actually start to enjoy sitting through a game without being a negative cancer on the fans around them.

How about a ban for anyone who has supported another team.

[Claytons Left Boot]

5 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

How about a ban for anyone who has supported another team.

???

[AllRoverAsia]

I must have fallen asleep and been Sectioned. WTF is going on in here. ?

[Vinjay]

16 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

How about a ban for anyone who has supported another team.

What if that's because they were driven out despite being right about many things? Certainly the core reason I joined this forum 15 years ago. Maybe 14 years too many. It's coming up to 20 years since Jack died. What am I supposed to do still be on here 50 years from now saying "well Jack would have liked this" or "Jack would have preferred his family not stabbing him in the back". I've sacrificed enough of my time and effort. Even my Mum said to me "this obsession with the Walker family has taken over your life but you don't even go anymore". How twisted is that? That's not support it's borderline schizophrenic. People say all I do is criticise fans what about those I've defended for being anti-Venkys and attacking the scum in media who backed Kean? I can't abide total injustice even when the same people have attacked me on other issues.

I know none of this stuff is going to happen here (the staff are too lazy for one thing and what the owners know about marketing could be written on a matchbox) it's fantasy but surely one club will take a radical approach. Especially with FUP and what's happened in last few months.  

Edited July 2, 2020 by Vinjay

[Stuart]

4 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

My last word on this Lenihan discussion, because its clear that folk are fairly entrenched in their views either way on this, though I'm not sure this situation is a 'normal' case of a professional footballer opting not to play in a game. Look at it from his point of view (I am making some assumptions obviously but none of them are as far-fetched as "We would have beaten Barnsley if he had not been a selfish bastard and played"):

He's a young married man and him and his wife discuss starting a family. They agree that he wishes to be present at the birth (which, regardless of whether men did that kind of thing 50 years ago, it is the year 2020 and they do that nowadays) and decide upon the best time to have the baby for him to be able to attend the birth without having to miss a match. "It'll need to be off-season love, we have a window of about 6 weeks, from the beginning of June to the middle of July, although the gaffer would probably be okay if I missed a day of pre season training to attend the birth, so even if it stretched to the end of July I should be okay". So that is when they plan their happy event for, with the comfort that it won't interfere with the dad-to-be's professional commitments. 

They weren't to know that - for the first time ever - circumstances would cause the football league season to be extended into June and July. Presumably the couple discusses things again. Mrs Lenihan asks "I assume you'll still be attending the birth Daz?". 

"Oh, I'm not sure" he replies, "I really want to and I know we agreed that it is the only chance I'll ever get to be there when my first child is born, but we have a really important couple of games around about your due date, because mathematically we can still get into those play-offs"

"Who are they against?"

"Oh, Wigan and Barnsley" .

"Wigan and Barnsley? They don't sound particularly important to me. And is there nobody else that can play in your place?"

"Well not really, Oh, apart from the club captain and Scottish international Charlie Mulgrew."

"Can't Elliot Bennett play centre half too if required?"

"Yeah, actually, he probably could"

A bit tongue in cheek but I don't blame the lad at all.    

“Club captain and Scottish international Charlie Mulgrew”???

Hear that scraping sound?  

And deciding games aren’t important based on the names “Wigan and Barnsley” are probably why we lost both games!

[oldjamfan1]

13 minutes ago, Stuart said:

“Club captain and Scottish international Charlie Mulgrew”???

Hear that scraping sound?  

And deciding games aren’t important based on the names “Wigan and Barnsley” are probably why we lost both games!

Which part of  "A bit tongue in cheek" did you not understand Stuart? Do you seriously think I'm even remotely suggesting that the current Mulgrew is better than Lenihan?? It was a satirical take on what his wife's view on it might have been (hence the reference to Bennett as well!). Blimey, lockdown must really be getting to you mate. 

You seem to be missing the whole point of that post, which was that they almost certainly planned for the baby to arrive outside of the football season. According to you, Lenihan's decision not to play cost us the game, which in itself is total nonsense. I think the very fact that you - and others to be fair - seem to want to scapegoat Lenihan for that defeat is shockingly poor, and taken alongside some of Vinjay's posts over the past 24 hours have taken this thread into the bloody twilight zone. 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by oldjamfan1

[Bigdoggsteel]

Amazing how people here claim to have so much info about Lenihans sex life(planning when they would conceive) and him and his missus relationship (kept his promise to her to be at the birth) 

I think the discussion on whether players should miss games for births is an interesting one. I just find it funny how some an say,it's ok to miss Wigan and Barnsley games, but not a final. If you mathamatically can't get  promoted or relegated ,then fine , otherwise final or not, there is something to play for, so I would see the situations as the same. 

Not an easy decision to make and I'm sure certain players and characters look at things in different ways. Tough call to make either way. I certainly have sympathy for Lenihan because the season shouldn't be still going now. 

I wonder is it something that gets put in players contracts? 

Our squad just felt really depleted the other night and it had an air of a game where we were the ones with nothing to play for. 

Still, have a feeling we will beat Leeds on Saturday. Lenihan header

 

[oldjamfan1]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Amazing how people here claim to have so much info about Lenihans sex life(planning when they would conceive) and him and his missus relationship (kept his promise to her to be at the birth) 

I think the discussion on whether players should miss games for births is an interesting one. I just find it funny how some an say,it's ok to miss Wigan and Barnsley games, but not a final. If you mathamatically can't get  promoted or relegated ,then fine , otherwise final or not, there is something to play for, so I would see the situations as the same. 

Not an easy decision to make and I'm sure certain players and characters look at things in different ways. Tough call to make either way. I certainly have sympathy for Lenihan because the season shouldn't be still going now. 

I wonder is it something that gets put in players contracts? 

Our squad just felt really depleted the other night and it had an air of a game where we were the ones with nothing to play for. 

Still, have a feeling we will beat Leeds on Saturday. Lenihan header

 

Literally nobody actually said that though, it was me that said/speculated that he might have been more tempted to play but that was the limit of it. I agree with you, they are the same or at least the principle is.

As for the 'info about their sex life', I don't think anybody has claimed that either, but the baby was due outside of the football season, that is an undeniable fact....until covid stepped in.

Edited July 2, 2020 by oldjamfan1

[Bigdoggsteel]

21 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Literally nobody actually said that though, it was me that said/speculated that he might have been more tempted to play but that was the limit of it. I agree with you, they are the same or at least the principle is.

As for the 'info about their sex life', I don't think anybody has claimed that either, but the baby was due outside of the football season, that is an undeniable fact....until covid stepped in.

Ya, so anyone who says it's fine he didn't play, should therefore have the same view if say ,Dack , was fit next season and his missus was due the same day as the play off final , which we were in and he said he wasn't playing. 

I just think a Warnock or a Roy Keane may demand a bit more commitment from the player. As I've said though,it's not straight forward ,at all. 

I'm glad I was there and maybe I'm putting too much on footballers. I would just view it as an extremely privileged lifestyle, that perhaps requires more sacrifices. I'm sure people in regular jobs have had to miss births due to work commitments. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[oldjamfan1]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, so anyone who says it's fine he didn't play, should therefore have the same view if say ,Dack , was fit next season and his missus was due the same day as the play off final , which we were in and he said he wasn't playing. 

I just think a Warnock or a Roy Keane may demand a bit more commitment from the player. As I've said though,it's not straight forward ,at all. 

I'm glad I was there and maybe I'm putting too much on foot ballers I would just view it as a privileged life, that requires perhaps more sacrifices. I'm sure people in regular jobs have had to miss births due to work commitments. 

Put it this way mate - I see a huge difference between Lenihan's situation and the England cricket captain missing a test match IN JULY to be at his child's birth, which would tie in with your hypothetical Dack analogy. Did Joe Root not realise he might be needed in July?

So no, I wouldn't necessarily be quite so understanding if a player missed a game that was played on its original date, i.e. during what is the normal football season (including play-off finals)

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, oldjamfan1 said:

Put it this way mate - I see a huge difference between Lenihan's situation and the England cricket captain missing a test match IN JULY to be at his child's birth, which would tie in with your hypothetical Dack analogy. Did Joe Root not realise he might be needed in July?

So no, I wouldn't necessarily be quite so understanding if a player missed a game that was played on its original date, i.e. during what is the normal football season (including play-off finals)

I have acknowledged that it was out of regular season time. Just discussing generally really. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

I suppose she might not even have had any other family in the UK. So all and all, I suppose it was exceptional circumstances. I probably would have done the same as Darragh, I just do think that not every manager would allow it or approve of it. Not approving could also lead to issues. I just keep thinking of a player asking Roy Keane....?

It's just typical of the type of good deed the club would do, but that we wouldn't get away with on the field! 

[oldjamfan1]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I have acknowledged that it was out of regular season time. Just discussing generally really. 

As a general point footballers should avoid becoming fathers during the football season where at all possible. Of course, it isn't quite as simple as that, there are innumerable factors at play. If the last four months have taught us anything it is surely that football is not the be-all and end-all.

[Tom]

14 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, so anyone who says it's fine he didn't play, should therefore have the same view if say ,Dack , was fit next season and his missus was due the same day as the play off final , which we were in and he said he wasn't playing. 

I just think a Warnock or a Roy Keane may demand a bit more commitment from the player. As I've said though,it's not straight forward ,at all. 

I'm glad I was there and maybe I'm putting too much on footballers. I would just view it as an extremely privileged lifestyle, that perhaps requires more sacrifices. I'm sure people in regular jobs have had to miss births due to work commitments. 

I’d be more than happy with any player missing any game for the birth of his child

[Blue blood]

Blaming it all on Lenihen - aside from the whole can a Dad be present at a birth issue (imo yes for a variety of reasons but it feels done to death) - detracts attention from the other culprit of the situation, who made this an issue - TM. Had we had defensive cover of an adequate standard and not been threadbare in defence, Lenihen missing for injury, parental leave or any other reason would have been far less grievous. 

The fact we only had Mulgrew available 2+ windows after realising he wasn't good enough (and there's a school of thought there was some prior warning to that too, including his age) is shambolic. The fact the only other centre back is also possibly our first choice left back (Williams) and is good enough for neither position really also shows the mess TM has made. If one didn't have to show horn Bennett in and Williams was fit he should have slotted in at left back as he's not an utter liability there unlike Bennett. So we haven't had cover, proper cover, in terms of numbers or quality all season. 

If this had been a game under Big Sam say or Hughes, no one would have batted an eye as there was plenty of cover in defence. Likewise under Souness. No one wouldve cared had it been Samuel or Gally  It's only an issue at all because we have such a terribly unbalanced squad. That's nothing to do with Lenihen whatsoever. 

[PeteJD13]

Speaking as a parent who was at the birth of both his kids, i wouldn't have missed the births for anything but each to the their own. I bring my daughter to games now she's been coming for nearly 2 years she is 4 and absolutely loves the day out and when my son is old enough i'll bring him as well. Speaking personally i enjoy my match days more now as when you are with your kid you don't take it so seriously and seeing the enjoyment she gets is amazing. We don't live that locally to Ewood anymore so we travel from Flixton it takes about 30/35 mins, if I didn't take her she'd end up as a red or blue if the atmosphere is rubbish, its not for lack of enthusiasm from younger fans. Its the rest who'd rather sit and whinge or the ones that no bother coming at all. If the crowd was up to 15/16k it would make a huge difference.

Edited July 2, 2020 by PeteJD13

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

I’d be more than happy with any player missing any game for the birth of his child

Especially if they're playing for our opponents.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

As Bill Shankly once said “Who gets married during the football season?” ??

Might be before your time but the first game for two months after the big freeze in the early 1960's was Man Utd at Ewood. Fred Pickering had got married on the morning of the game and both teams formed up on the pitch as a guard of honour to clap him onto the pitch. 

Half way through the second half when we were 1-2 down Rovers had an attack break down. Fred's boot lace had come loose so he crouched down to re tie it just where the penalty spot is a the Blackburn End. United moved the ball up the pitch but then one of their players decided to pass the ball back to the 'keeper. Just as Fred got back to his feet. Obviously the guy hadn't seen him. The ball went straight to Fred who calmly turned with the ball and belted into the back of the net for a 2-2 draw.

Nice wedding present.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, oldjamfan1 said:

As a general point footballers should avoid becoming fathers during the football season where at all possible. Of course, it isn't quite as simple as that, there are innumerable factors at play. If the last four months have taught us anything it is surely that football is not the be-all and end-all.

" Avoid becoming fathers ", I agree, just don't let them have sex at all like they do with boxers when they're preparing for a bout. That'll improve their levels of aggression 1000%

One of the old time American boxing trainers was very strict on this matter. He was training a very good American middleweight champion called Joey Giardello, who was a noted ladies man. He called around to see the boxer one morning at their training lodge to take him for some roadwork. After banging on the door he thought he could hear noises so he opened the flap of the letter box. He could see Giardello having sex with a maid on the stairs. He was reduced to shouting through the letter box " Don't come Joey, don't come for god's sake ! "

[Stuart]

5 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Which part of  "A bit tongue in cheek" did you not understand Stuart? Do you seriously think I'm even remotely suggesting that the current Mulgrew is better than Lenihan?? It was a satirical take on what his wife's view on it might have been (hence the reference to Bennett as well!). Blimey, lockdown must really be getting to you mate. 

You seem to be missing the whole point of that post, which was that they almost certainly planned for the baby to arrive outside of the football season. According to you, Lenihan's decision not to play cost us the game, which in itself is total nonsense. I think the very fact that you - and others to be fair - seem to want to scapegoat Lenihan for that defeat is shockingly poor, and taken alongside some of Vinjay's posts over the past 24 hours have taken this thread into the bloody twilight zone. 

 

I think you missed something that I thought was pretty overt in my post.

??

 

[oldjamfan1]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

I think you missed something that I thought was pretty overt in my post.

??

 

Yeah ok Stuart.