Summer Transfer Window

[47er]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Bennett when he has played right back for the club in 2 seasons has 4 assists. Nyambe has none as his assist came against Swansea when he played at Centre back this season. Bell has 3 assists with all 18/19 season. Williams has 2 assists with all in 18/19 season. Cunningham has 1 assist this season.  So that's is 10 assists within the 2 seasons. Stats are from Transfermarkt. 

Just highlights that Nyambe's game going forward isn't good enough

Fair enough. You keep highlighting it about wide players but my overall point that after 3.5 years here at the club we know for facts that Mowbray doesn't play with natural wingers. 

Well, if he's too stubborn to change why shouldn't he be sacked?

[Sparks Rover]

18 minutes ago, J*B said:

HC as in Harry Chapman, at right wing back?

Or Nyambe....I am keen to see a bit of winger ..

Chapmsn needs to start a game or two

[RoversClitheroe]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

We definitely need at least one new centre back but I can only see an inferior replacement at best coming in probably on loan (or maybe a free) for Adarabioyo so there is a big worry that we will be defensively worse next season.

In terms of having a bit of competition, as far as I am concerned, Carter has proved that at this moment in time, he is well, well below what you need to play in the Championship. I have always got the impression that Mowbray is quite dismissive of Wharton, and if I had to guess, Carter will be here next season and Wharton wont. But I think you look at Wharton and he could only do what he has, stood out in a promotion team, got a player of the month award and seemingly has really made an impression there with his consistency:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/view-press-box-alternative-cobblers-awards-201920-season-2906657%3famp

"Not many loan signings prove as successful as Scott Wharton. Excellent and so consistent on the left side of Town's back three. A real classy prospect and one to keep an eye on for the future. Can Cobblers get him back next year?"

I think id much rather have him as 3rd choice certainly over Carter and indeed we know how bog standard Williams is.

Might even give Mowbray the chance to try another formation he loves, Wharton as the left of a three and Rankin Costello at right wing back.

I literally completely disagree that Carter looked well out of his depth. 

He managed the threats well throughout I thought, made some good last ditch challenges, was dominant in the air. He was left exposed a lot by the midfield.

I've watched the OG back loads and Walton should have kept it out. It was just a lack of reaction....

[Butty]

11 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I believe Mowbray likes 352 but he's not had the players for it. With Wharton coming back and the addition of a quality central midfielder and another footballing centre back, I think we can play Bell as a wing back (a bit less defensive responsibility), Travis, Whiteman Rothwell in the 3 with JR more attack minded...I'd like HC to play right wing back with Dack/ AA and Brereton up front.

Evans is a squad player, but can play in a 3

Well he’s been here long enough and had the financial backing to get the players in to play a 352 which he hasn’t managed to do... You’d play Bell wing back? Me personally I’ll be pissed off if we extend his contract to 2021. He should be off this summer. And you’d play Harry Chapman at right wing back?! I know there’s less defensive responsibility as a wing back but you’ve still got to get back and defend! For a team that’s struggled defensively for the last however many years, playing those two at wing backs would be a car crash! Think you need a lie down Sparks  

Edited July 24, 2020 by Butty

[roversfan99]

Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

I literally completely disagree that Carter looked well out of his depth. 

He managed the threats well throughout I thought, made some good last ditch challenges, was dominant in the air. He was left exposed a lot by the midfield.

I've watched the OG back loads and Walton should have kept it out. It was just a lack of reaction....

I would have to disagree. The own goal he has to take some blame for and there were numerous times when he either cheaply gave the ball away or especially on the turn looked all over the place, a few times especially in the second half. Just looked a bag of nerves throughout. 6 goals in 2 games doesnt reflect well either.

I personally think that there is understandably an element of reluctance to criticise him because hes a kid from the academy but I dont think he is anywhere near ready. 

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Bennett when he has played right back for the club in 2 seasons has 4 assists. Nyambe has none as his assist came against Swansea when he played at Centre back this season. Bell has 3 assists with all 18/19 season. Williams has 2 assists with all in 18/19 season. Cunningham has 1 assist this season.  So that's is 10 assists within the 2 seasons. Stats are from Transfermarkt. 

Just highlights that Nyambe's game going forward isn't good enough

Fair enough. You keep highlighting it about wide players but my overall point that after 3.5 years here at the club we know for facts that Mowbray doesn't play with natural wingers. 

Bennett costs us significantly more goals than he creates, annihilating the benefit. Nyambe every day, of every week, in every year, over Bennett.

The stats also can't show the times Nyambe vaulted us up the pitch. That might not directly create a goal often, but it allows us to put pressure on and I'm certain has led to a few goals from moves he essentially created.

[bluebruce]

32 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I literally completely disagree that Carter looked well out of his depth. 

He managed the threats well throughout I thought, made some good last ditch challenges, was dominant in the air. He was left exposed a lot by the midfield.

I've watched the OG back loads and Walton should have kept it out. It was just a lack of reaction....

And the crappy miskick which gave Luton their clearest chance of the game apart from the penalty?

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, bluebruce said:

And the crappy miskick which gave Luton their clearest chance of the game apart from the penalty?

There was a few similar that he did like that, im guessing you mean the one at the end though? Definitely looked out of his depth. Only a boy but not ready for Championship football in the near future.

[bluebruce]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

There was a few similar that he did like that, im guessing you mean the one at the end though? Definitely looked out of his depth. Only a boy but not ready for Championship football in the near future.

Only one I saw, sent their guy clean through on goal and luckily he wasn't good enough to take advantage. Very poor that. I saw him do a few decent things personally. But I think he looked good against Reading, vulnerable against Luton. A bit like Magloire's two appearances last season - one highly promising, then one highly concerning. Young lads, especially in defence, generally need to learn on the job. I'm just not presently too comfortable with him doing that at Rovers. I'm with you really, a loan out for Carter (but I'm far from writing him off after two games), use Wharton as the 'young centre half coming through, being used as backup'. He has the most experience which makes him the smallest liability, in a position where experience and not making mistakes is crucial. Just a shame we only got him yet another League Two loan or we would have a clearer picture. We should try to find Magloire a loan again too, and I've no idea why Platt is still in the building.

[Miker]

LB and GK are the 2 priorities in my view.

GK obviously since we’ll have none after Walton and Leutwiler leave. We have to bring in someone better than Walton was this season. Too many cheap goals given away due to bad keeping.

I think one of the things that hurt us the most this season (besides Dack’s injury) were the long term injuries to Cunningham and then Bell. Relying on Bennett and then JRC at LB cost us points this season and was definitely our weak spot. I really like the look of JRC, but he needs to be playing in midfield not at LB. 

I see Williams and Wharton as solid backup options at CB, but I definitely think we need a better quality defender to partner Lenihan. Tosin was a fantastic signing and I don’t know if we’ll manage to find someone else of his quality again.

Given our budget will likely be limited, I think we need to persist with the attacking and midfield options we have. Chapman, Brereton, Gallagher, Holtby and Rothwell can all be potent in this league but they need to find consistency. Between them, Dack and Armstrong we should be able to produce more than enough goals to reach the playoffs next season.

Despite my frustrations with Mowbray this season, he deserves one more season. If he can’t at least get us into the playoffs next season then I would agree with most here that we may need to look for options elsewhere. 

[WacoRover]

Miler, I agree with you totally on gk & LB. I’m not sure if Wharton is solid at the Championship level. We have to trust Mowbray on what he does with Wharton.

I know one thing; you & I are in the minority here, recommending Tony get even part of next season. I’m not sure I can recommend him for the whole year- obviously, if he gets in 2-3 key players, who drastically improve the defending, we start showing improvements and our position on the table warrants it as the season moves on. Some forget about it, but our best run of the season occurred a couple of games after we lost Lenihan & Cunningham at QPR. I give Mowbray credit for that. So he does make good adjustments. Evan after we lost Dack, it took three games, but we started scoring again.

 I would want him replaced, if we get better players at those positions, and we fail to show any improvement, and he proves he cannot right the ship. 

We’ve shown improvement this season, albeit, in small steps. That’s good enough for me... for now. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by WacoRover

[Fraserkirky]

An attacking line up of:

Travis Whiteman Rothwell

———-—Dack————-

Gally/BB——-Armstrong 

Thats pretty good, I would keep faith in Rothwell as he such a tidy player. Would need to add another striker if we can but we have plenty of options for depth in midfield and attack. Buckley and Vale and hopefully Butterworth will be squad players next year.

At the back is the big problem. Need 2 GKs, 2 Centre backs and a left back. 
Total is 7 in, including Whiteman and a striker. 10 out including loans. Not an insurmountable task. 
 

Agree Mowbray should be given another go but review after first 15 games of the season.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Fraserkirky

[Paul Mani]

Maybe Whiteman was one of the ‘couple’ of players Mowbray said we had agreements in place for at the fans forum. It definitely felt like at least one of those was for a foreign player. But Whiteman does fit the mould in terms of age, profile and affordability.

[MarkBRFC]

7 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I believe Mowbray likes 352 but he's not had the players for it. With Wharton coming back and the addition of a quality central midfielder and another footballing centre back, I think we can play Bell as a wing back (a bit less defensive responsibility), Travis, Whiteman Rothwell in the 3 with JR more attack minded...I'd like HC to play right wing back with Dack/ AA and Brereton up front.

Evans is a squad player, but can play in a 3

If he goes 3 at the back you just know who is taking the right wing back role...

[Mercer]

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

There was a few similar that he did like that, im guessing you mean the one at the end though? Definitely looked out of his depth. Only a boy but not ready for Championship football in the near future.

Carter is not 'only a boy' - he is 21 years of age this year.

As I have said before, ability is relative to the level you play at.  IMO, if Carter was going to be a player for us at Championship level, at his age, he should already have broken through or shown much more composure and dominance in his two games for us.  Sadly, I think he is another Academy product who will just drift into obscurity or earn a crust at Division 2 or, at best, Division 1 level.  You watch these lads at levels below first team and and I think it's pretty obvious who has got something about them and has a chance to become a real player for us and who hasn't.

IMO, Jack Vale looks like he could be the real thing but others like Butterworth, Davenport, Fisher, Grayson, Magloire, Mols, Wharton etc you can forget.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Mercer

[Mattyblue]

Bit harsh on Butterworth as this was going to be his break out season by all accounts. Then got a season ending injury early on, was only 19 at the time. He deserves to be looked at again.

Likes of Magloire and Fisher, fair enough.

[rigger]

7 hours ago, 47er said:

Bell looks good going forward----quick and good control but there is rarely any end product. Surely that could be coached?

The same coach that does Nyambe?

[Paul Mani]

8 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Carter is not 'only a boy' - he is 21 years of age this year.

As I have said before, ability is relative to the level you play at.  IMO, if Carter was going to be a player for us at Championship level, at his age, he should already have broken through or shown much more composure and dominance in his two games for us.  Sadly, I think he is another Academy product who will just drift into obscurity or earn a crust at Division 2 or, at best, Division 1 level.  You watch these lads at levels below first team and and I think it's pretty obvious who has got something about them and has a chance to become a real player for us and who hasn't.

IMO, Jack Vale looks like he could be the real thing but others like Butterworth, Davenport, Fisher, Grayson, Magloire, Mols, Wharton etc you can forget.

Argh...you were doing ok until you said Butterworth. If you genuinely believe he’s one to forget then it calls into question all of your calls.

 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

19 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Carter is not 'only a boy' - he is 21 years of age this year.

As I have said before, ability is relative to the level you play at.  IMO, if Carter was going to be a player for us at Championship level, at his age, he should already have broken through or shown much more composure and dominance in his two games for us.  Sadly, I think he is another Academy product who will just drift into obscurity or earn a crust at Division 2 or, at best, Division 1 level.  You watch these lads at levels below first team and and I think it's pretty obvious who has got something about them and has a chance to become a real player for us and who hasn't.

IMO, Jack Vale looks like he could be the real thing but others like Butterworth, Davenport, Fisher, Grayson, Magloire, Mols, Wharton etc you can forget.

Butterworth will be an excellent player if he steers clear of injury. I also don't think you know enough about the rest of the players, or have seen them enough, to write them off. 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

My head is telling me the delay in Venkys giving Mowbray a transfer budget is because of the state of the global economy and the fact they're panicking that they may lose everything Daddy gave them. 

My heart is saying its because they've looked at what money they've given at Mowbray in the last three years, not liked the lack of progression, and decided to try and bring another manager in. 

In reality it'll be somewhere in the middle and they'll neither get rid of him or give him any budget - literally the worst thing you could do as our owners this summer. 

The hate continues. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber

[BlackburnEnd75]

8 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I believe Mowbray likes 352 but he's not had the players for it. With Wharton coming back and the addition of a quality central midfielder and another footballing centre back, I think we can play Bell as a wing back (a bit less defensive responsibility), Travis, Whiteman Rothwell in the 3 with JR more attack minded...I'd like HC to play right wing back with Dack/ AA and Brereton up front.

Evans is a squad player, but can play in a 3

Chapman as a wingback is completely nonsensical. He cant do the other side of the game. He doesn't work hard enough. His body cant get him up and down the pitch. 

Maybe for 15 mins at the end of a game when we are losing.

[Mercer]

15 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Butterworth will be an excellent player if he steers clear of injury. I also don't think you know enough about the rest of the players, or have seen them enough, to write them off. 

I hope you are right but he hasn't shown me anywhere near enough for me to think he might be a 'real player' for us.  I compare him to Vale and I think Vale is head and shoulders above Butterworth.

How many times do you need to see a player?  An old friend of my dad's was a scout for a Division 1 (now PL) club, scouting senior players and he reckoned he knew within 45 minutes if a player had anything about him or he was wasting his time and the player could be crossed off his list - it was fascinating to hear his observations, particularly if I was watching football with him. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Mercer

[Dreams of 1995]

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I would have to disagree. The own goal he has to take some blame for and there were numerous times when he either cheaply gave the ball away or especially on the turn looked all over the place, a few times especially in the second half. Just looked a bag of nerves throughout. 6 goals in 2 games doesnt reflect well either.

I personally think that there is understandably an element of reluctance to criticise him because hes a kid from the academy but I dont think he is anywhere near ready. 

There speaks a man who has never played football in his life if you genuinely believe he has a portion of blame to take for that own goal. 
 

The ball literally hit his head after going through a crowd - where is the blame there? I’d be extremely impressed if anyone had the reactions to avoid the ball there 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[Commondore]

Who is this Whiteman I keep seeing mentioned?

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, Mercer said:

I hope you are right but he hasn't shown me anywhere near enough for me to think he might be a 'real player' for us.  I compare him to Vale and I think Vale is head and shoulders above Butterworth.

How many times do you need to see a player?  An old friend of my dad's was a scout for a Division 1 (now PL) club, scouting senior players and he reckoned he knew after 45 minutes if a player had anything about him or he was wasting his time and the player could be crossed off his list - it was fascinating to hear his observations, particularly if I was watching football with him. 

Exactly, Butterworth came on at Ewood for his debut and was the best player on the pitch - strong, quick and glided past people for fun. That was enough for me, and the old friend of your dads?

Edited July 24, 2020 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama